Despite Catholic teachings, women religiously take the pill

[archangel04]

To support the opposite view. It isn’t anyone’s business but the prospective parents involved, and their medical consults if there are medical issues.

I am surprised that people are surprised that Catholics agree with the general population on this issue. ** Catholics, like other human beings, want only two in the bedroom, no one else. ** The issue on contraception drove a stake through the relationship of American (and European) Catholics with their church, which was the beginning of the end of the idea that the Catholic church can control people’s lives, as it had done in the past. American Catholics fled their previously monolithic support and took their wallets with them. Then, later, when the priest sex abuse scandal broke, the church ended up with extensive closure of schools and parishes, 60 in Boston alone, and several diocesan bankruptcies. The previous monolithic support of the church was gone, and the proscription of contraception helped kill it.

People that say “keep the Pope out of our bedroom” truly flatter themselves HA HA, the Pope wants nothing to do in your bedroom, but he does want married couples to have God present as we should. Contraception allows one to play God, it’s as simple as that! So if you get to play god, then there is no room for the true God, hence another reason why contraception is morally wrong. There is something that’s called self-control, with prayer and devotion it can be obtained.

The Catholic Church does not control anyone, she only shows us the path to true freedom.

 

[Lutheranteach]

I was there when the Birth Control Pill manufacturers and the media launched their assault on Normal Human Sexuality in the late 1960s.

The Church is not interested in wallets, and God certainly isn’t. If some people think having lots of sex is more important than Church teaching, you may also notice that no priest will be knocking on your door on Monday if you miss Mass on Sunday. It’s not about the money, and no, the Church will not force you to stay, or even visit, if you don’t want to.

God bless,
Ed

Oh. I think the church is very interested in wallets

 

[rlg94086]

Oh. I think the church is very interested in wallets

As is any church - they need to be able to finance the activities and administration of the church.

However, the Catholic Church has not changed her stance on divorce, contraception, abortion, female priests, homosexual unions, etc.; despite the fact that some people leave for Protestant churches due to those issues. It is uncharitable to assume without evidence that the Church will compromise teaching based on attendance/giving.

 

[rlg94086]

People that say “keep the Pope out of our bedroom” truly flatter themselves HA HA, the Pope wants nothing to do in your bedroom, but he does want married couples to have God present as we should. Contraception allows one to play God, it’s as simple as that! So if you get to play god, then there is no room for the true God, hence another reason why contraception is morally wrong. There is something that’s called self-control, with prayer and devotion it can be obtained.

The Catholic Church does not control anyone, she only shows us the path to true freedom.

Yep. The whole “keep the Pope (or Church) out of my bedroom” nonsense is just a sign of ignorance. We all have free will, which includes the ability to shut God out of any part of our lives. We do so at our own peril.

 

[edwest2]

Oh. I think the church is very interested in wallets

So why did Church attendance decline so dramatically over the last 40 years? I drove past Churches with signs like: The only thing missing is U.

No priest ever pounded on someone’s door on Monday to get their $$$ because you missed Mass on Sunday. Never happened.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Yep. The whole “keep the Pope (or Church) out of my bedroom” nonsense is just a sign of ignorance. We all have free will, which includes the ability to shut God out of any part of our lives. We do so at our own peril.

Respectfully, it’s not a sign of ignorance but a sign of defiance. “I’ll do whatever I want in my bedroom and I don’t care what the Pope, and by extension, God might say about it.”

This is the position of those who want to ignore Church teaching which they think might ruin their fun.

God bless,
Ed

 

[rlg94086]

Respectfully, it’s not a sign of ignorance but a sign of defiance. “I’ll do whatever I want in my bedroom and I don’t care what the Pope, and by extension, God might say about it.”

This is the position of those who want to ignore Church teaching which they think might ruin their fun.

God bless,
Ed

We agree, Ed. My point regarding ignorance, is that the Pope nor the Church ever enter one’s bedroom, as your earlier post pointed out. What the person is really doing is keeping God out of their bedroom. They believe they are free to sin in the privacy of their own home. That is why I made the analogy earlier with Adam and Eve trying to hide their nakedness from God. People are still trying to hide from God, only now it is more out of defiance than shame.

 

[rlg94086]

So why did Church attendance decline so dramatically over the last 40 years? I drove past Churches with signs like: The only thing missing is U.

No priest ever pounded on someone’s door on Monday to get their $$$ because you missed Mass on Sunday. Never happened.

Exactly. In fact, at our parish, attendance and giving increased dramatically when a young, orthodox priest was our pastor for six years. He reintroduced many traditional prayers and liturgy, including Gregorian chant and Latin. He was also very strong in his homilies and talks when it came to birth control and other issues. So, based on the whole “wallet” argument, I guess other priests should do the same.

Our attendance and giving are lower for a host of reasons (economy, priest change, new parish nearby, etc.). I’ve yet to hear any plans during our Parish Council meetings to remove discussion of problematic teachings (gay marriage, contraception, etc.). Our priest even mentioned a couple of them this Sunday as part of his wonderful homily.

 

[Rence]

So why did Church attendance decline so dramatically over the last 40 years? I drove past Churches with signs like: The only thing missing is U.

No priest ever pounded on someone’s door on Monday to get their $$$ because you missed Mass on Sunday. Never happened.

God bless,
Ed

Actually, when I attended parochial school, when we registered, the principal asked us how much money we wanted to put into the weekly envelope. There were check boxes for $3 $5, $10, etc. My mom put $10. Some weeks mom put in more, some less, but at the end of the school year, mom got a “bill” from the school for the weeks that the contribution was less than $10 (they didn’t even apply it to her “account” when she paid more than $10). And basically told her that my brother and I could not proceed to the next grade if she didn’t pay it. She had to pay it and she continued to pay it until we graduated. They never got a penny from us after my brother and I graduated. Eventually, they stopped sending us those envelopes in the mail. We lived only two blocks away from this Church. My grandmother continued going there because it was convenient, and it was always half empty according to her…

I’m not saying the CC are crooks, because other Catholic churches and organizations have done good things for us when needed them. I’m just saying it happens sometimes.

 

[rlg94086]

Actually, when I attended parochial school, when we registered, the principal asked us how much money we wanted to put into the weekly envelope. There were check boxes for $3 $5, $10, etc. My mom put $10. Some weeks mom put in more, some less, but at the end of the school year, mom got a “bill” from the school for the weeks that the contribution was less than $10 (they didn’t even apply it to her “account” when she paid more than $10). And basically told her that my brother and I could not proceed to the next grade if she didn’t pay it. She had to pay it and she continued to pay it until we graduated. They never got a penny from us after my brother and I graduated. Eventually, they stopped sending us those envelopes in the mail. We lived only two blocks away from this Church. My grandmother continued going there because it was convenient, and it was always half empty according to her…

I’m not saying the CC are crooks, because other Catholic churches and organizations have done good things for us when needed them. I’m just saying it happens sometimes.

It sounds like the expected giving was tied to the costs of the parochial school. This doesn’t surprise me because there are plenty of Catholics who will register at a parish and send their kids to the school without attending/supporting the parish. Since the costs of a parish school are partially funded by the parish, it seems fair to expect regular giving from the parents of students.

It is too bad they didn’t apply the other amounts she gave, but that sounds like an administrative error. Your family’s response of never giving a penny after graduating seems like an overreaction to me. I guess once you got what you wanted out of your fellow parishioners (a quality, Catholic education), you didn’t feel the need to help provide the same to any other families. Sad.

 

[manualman]

Actually, when I attended parochial school, when we registered, the principal asked us how much money we wanted to put into the weekly envelope. There were check boxes for $3 $5, $10, etc. My mom put $10. Some weeks mom put in more, some less, but at the end of the school year, mom got a “bill” from the school for the weeks that the contribution was less than $10 (they didn’t even apply it to her “account” when she paid more than $10). And basically told her that my brother and I could not proceed to the next grade if she didn’t pay it. She had to pay it and she continued to pay it until we graduated. They never got a penny from us after my brother and I graduated. Eventually, they stopped sending us those envelopes in the mail. We lived only two blocks away from this Church. My grandmother continued going there because it was convenient, and it was always half empty according to her…

I’m not saying the CC are crooks, because other Catholic churches and organizations have done good things for us when needed them. I’m just saying it happens sometimes.

Classic! Those bastagges charged us a whole $10 a week for a private school education! They even came after us if we didn’t pay.

No wonder some of those old nuns got bitter and fell for radical feminism. Many of them really WEREN’T appreciated for giving their entire selves for the education of the parish children.

 

[edwest2]

Actually, when I attended parochial school, when we registered, the principal asked us how much money we wanted to put into the weekly envelope. There were check boxes for $3 $5, $10, etc. My mom put $10. Some weeks mom put in more, some less, but at the end of the school year, mom got a “bill” from the school for the weeks that the contribution was less than $10 (they didn’t even apply it to her “account” when she paid more than $10). And basically told her that my brother and I could not proceed to the next grade if she didn’t pay it. She had to pay it and she continued to pay it until we graduated. They never got a penny from us after my brother and I graduated. Eventually, they stopped sending us those envelopes in the mail. We lived only two blocks away from this Church. My grandmother continued going there because it was convenient, and it was always half empty according to her…

I’m not saying the CC are crooks, because other Catholic churches and organizations have done good things for us when needed them. I’m just saying it happens sometimes.

Thank you for that detailed explanation. I have never run across this before. Do you know if the school was in such bad shape financially that they could not pay their bills?

Best regards,
Ed

 

[Rence]

Thank you for that detailed explanation. I have never run across this before. Do you know if the school was in such bad shape financially that they could not pay their bills?
Best regards,
Ed

No, they weren’t in dire straits. Who knows? I think it’s unlikely but I’ll go out on a limb and say that maybe they were just poor bookkeepers. Mom said she never confronted them about it, so we’ll never know what was really going on.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Exactly. In fact, at our parish, attendance and giving increased dramatically when a young, orthodox priest was our pastor for six years. He reintroduced many traditional prayers and liturgy, including Gregorian chant and Latin. He was also very strong in his homilies and talks when it came to birth control and other issues. So, based on the whole “wallet” argument, I guess other priests should do the same.

Interesting. In my area the most “liberal” parish in the diocese has the highest percentage of registered attendance and is the highest in donations. Does that mean every parish should follow that example?

 

[anode]

No, they weren’t in dire straits. Who knows? I think it’s unlikely but I’ll go out on a limb and say that maybe they were just poor bookkeepers. Mom said she never confronted them about it, so we’ll never know what was really going on.

I think that often in the past parishes were poor bookkeepers. That is the only explanation of why some priests were able to embezzle large amounts of money. No one was minding the store. I suspect this is much less common now in RC churches. In Protestant churches, this sort of thing happens mainly in the one-man-founder-and-leader evangelical non-denominational churches. The mainstream denominations have strong lay oversight on financial matters. Also these churches encourage pledges, which enables them to draw up a budget and hold members to their pledges.

 

[anode]

Huh? Do you have any evidence for this prepostorous statement? Sounds like you have been reading too much protestant propoganda.
Sure there were wars and the indigenous nations were overcome in battle. But as for the notion that the spanish were trying to wipe the people out as a genocide, its simply untrue. Studies of skeletal remains show that very few people were killed by violence and that the great majority died of western diseases of which the natives had no immunity, such as smallpox, typhus, influenza and measles. In most cases the epidemics spread ahead of the conquistadors, so that when they arrived at the locations they found the populations already decimated by disease.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquistador

The epidemics couldn’t have spread ahead of the conquistadors because the epidemics were diseases from Europe, not pre-existing in the New World, which is why they were so devastating. There is excellent evidence from Spanish documents that the conquistadors slaughtered indiscriminately the indigenous populations, which the friars and later the Dominicans such as Bartolome de Las Casas tried to mitigate, but later on the Spanish tried to help* spread* the epidemics by ‘donating’ infected blankets, etc. to Indian populations in North America. There is a pueblo ruin in New Mexico which Coronado destroyed on his way through. The Spanish colonists and the Church stole Indian labor, grains, blankets and anything they could get their hands on without mercy, until the Pueblo Revolt of 1680, in which the Indians rose up and slaughtered priests, friars, men and women alike. This was the only successful revolt in what later became the US. Nevertheless, because of disease, fighting, slaughter, indentured slavery and appropriation of foodstuffs and possessions, Indian populations plummeted after the Spanish invasion in all of the Americas.

Bartolome de Las Casas made such a fuss about Indian slaughter that in his reports to Spain, that he was sent back, where he continued until his death.

 

[anode]

I don’ t understand why a woman would want to risk their health taking the pill to start with, the church has her best interest in mind. My 19 year old daughter hates all those birth control pill commercials, saying that she would never want to risk her health like that!

The side effects of pregnancy and childbirth are worse than any side effects of the pill. If the mother of an unwanted pregnancy can’t attend and complete college, she will pay for this the rest of her life. The effects on the child from an unwanted pregnancy are worse than all of it.

 

[anode]

I’ve read the early church fathers on this subject, and they basically made no distinction between birth control and abortion. In fact as we know today, many forms of birth control are actually abortive anyway.

The two acts go hand in hand. Those who artificially control birth are also the ones who are going to abort when things “go wrong” and the woman gets pregnant.

Personally I think that the hysteria shown about abortion and the relative silence on birth control belies a lot of guilt consciences. People who know they are sinning with ABC but who attack what they perceive to be a greater evil to salve their consciences.

What we are facing is a shocking wave of disobedience and mortal sin in our church. Its not just a pity or a shame. Its an abomination and our church will not flourish until reparation is made and the people turn from their sins.

That reparation and people turning from their sins might start with the numberless perpetrators of the Catholic priest sex scandal and its coverup.

Most Catholics in the US don’t regard using contraception as a sin. They** do** regard the sex scandal and its concealment, denial and outrageous mismanagement as sins, though, and I doubt that many are going to increase their attendance or fiscal support of the RCC until the church addresses this.

 

[anode]

I’m saying that divorced, no annulment, re-married, birth control taking, 3 times a year Catholics are free to attend Church, never hear anything about " their mortal " sins and happily, blissfully and ignorantly partake of their apparently sacred Eucharist and they don’t have to worry about Christian special interest groups who fight against their lifestyle.

Yet, in this same Church, openly practicing homosexuals run the risk of being denied that same Eucharist.

It’s hypocritical…that’s my problem.

Why change the teaching when instead, just don’t mention it.

I suspect that many/most priests in the US don’t agree with HV. They don’t want to preach from the pulpit re contraception when there is abortion, gay marriage and immigration to preach about, issues about which they may agree with the official dogma.

 

[rlg94086]

Interesting. In my area the most “liberal” parish in the diocese has the highest percentage of registered attendance and is the highest in donations. Does that mean every parish should follow that example?

I was being facetious…