Despite Latino Pope, U.S. Hispanics Still Attracted to Evangelicalism

[Stylteralmaldo]

…I have a friend from Peru whose cousin became a priest…he told my friend the reason he became a priest was because priests got the best food…the best wine…and…women…my friend has never set foot in a Catholic church after that…

The Church will always have it’s share of Judas Iscariots.

Imagine during the time of Christ, people seeing Judas’ example of what it means to be a leader of Christ’s Church. I’d imagine they’d not be interested if he was the example given.

 

[ProVobis]

Nowadays, as globalization has occurred, traditionally Catholic countries are being permeated with evangelicals, and traditional protestant countries are being permeated with Catholics. Despite whatever woes exist from nominal Catholics dropping off the board in the US, the fact is that this country was historically a protestant stronghold before it also became heavily influenced by Catholicism as well.

Perhaps to some extent, but if you think back to the 50’s and 60’s, there was an emphasis on ecumenism rather than conversion. Plus religious freedom and the loss of Catholic identity (fast, meat abstinence, Latin, veneration of Mary, etc.) made Catholicism less challenging and exciting, for the lack of better words. Don’t get me wrong, Catholicism is still looked on as being strictest with its rules against remarriage, fornication, Mass obligations, ABC, and the like but in this day of conveniences, these things just aren’t taken seriously anymore. Not by many, if not most, Catholics, which are basically just nominal, if not bored, Catholics. And I’m sorry if this offends anyone but it’s my observation anyway.

 

[Peebo]

Johnny I think I’m unclear about your point of view. What do you think is the best way to respond to the rise of evangelicals in Latin America?

You know, admittedly, I suppose the Catholic Church isn’t necessarily doing anything “wrong” in its pastoral efforts. In the past, Protestantism and Catholicism were separated according to country. If you were Swedish, there was a 99% chance you were protestant. If you were Italian, there was a 99% chance you were Catholic. Nowadays, as globalization has occurred, traditionally Catholic countries are being permeated with evangelicals, and traditional protestant countries are being permeated with Catholics. Despite whatever woes exist from nominal Catholics dropping off the board in the US, the fact is that this country was historically a protestant stronghold before it also became heavily influenced by Catholicism as well.

 

[ringil]

The faithful in Latin America, like nearly everyone else, are poorly catechized.

The Evangelicals see South America and Africa, as prime picking ground for converts.

Sometimes the thought of it really gets my goat but I try to back up and see that, however mistakenly, these Evangelicals think they are doing the right thing.

Many of them believe that Catholics in Africa are little more than Animists.

 

[Peebo]

Johnny I think I’m unclear about your point of view. What do you think is the best way to respond to the rise of evangelicals in Latin America?

You know, admittedly, I suppose the Catholic Church isn’t necessarily doing anything “wrong” in its pastoral efforts. In the past, Protestantism and Catholicism were separated according to country. If you were Swedish, there was a 99% chance you were protestant. If you were Italian, there was a 99% chance you were Catholic. Nowadays, as globalization has occurred, traditionally Catholic countries are being permeated with evangelicals, and traditional protestant countries are being permeated with Catholics. Despite whatever woes exist from nominal Catholics dropping off the board in the US, the fact is that this country was historically a protestant stronghold before it also became heavily influenced by Catholicism as well.

I don’t think this country is anywhere near as heavily influenced by Catholicism as it is by Evangelical Protestantism…most conservative politicians are influenced by right wing Evangelical thought on social issues…even conservative Catholics here in the US are more in line with them on issues such as climate change…immigration…capital punishment…capitalism etc than they are with the Vicar of Christ…I fear the Catholic church is being squeezed between Evangelical Protestantism from the right and liberal secularism from the left…Pope Benedict XVI while not directly stating it…did allude to the Catholic church becoming a smaller more purer church…maybe this is where God is leading his one true Catholic church

 

[FollowChrist34]

Peebo:
I don’t think this country is anywhere near as heavily influenced by Catholicism as it is by Evangelical Protestantism…most conservative politicians are influenced by right wing Evangelical thought on social issues…even conservative Catholics here in the US are more in line with them on issues such as climate change…immigration…capital punishment…capitalism etc than they are with the Vicar of Christ…I fear the Catholic church is being squeezed between Evangelical Protestantism from the right and liberal secularism from the left…Pope Benedict XVI while not directly stating it…did allude to the Catholic church becoming a smaller more purer church…maybe this is where God is leading his one true Catholic church

Exactly. Are we a Church in the true sense of spreading the Word and guarding, nourishing and saving souls? Or are we an NGO, a compassionate institution with tentacles spread far, deep and wide that accommodates modernity and cannot maintain itself outside of the current culture and its mentality.

 

[ringil]

Peebo:
I don’t think this country is anywhere near as heavily influenced by Catholicism as it is by Evangelical Protestantism…most conservative politicians are influenced by right wing Evangelical thought on social issues…even conservative Catholics here in the US are more in line with them on issues such as climate change…immigration…capital punishment…capitalism etc than they are with the Vicar of Christ…I fear the Catholic church is being squeezed between Evangelical Protestantism from the right and liberal secularism from the left…Pope Benedict XVI while not directly stating it…did allude to the Catholic church becoming a smaller more purer church…maybe this is where God is leading his one true Catholic church

I also see that there is what I call an “Evangelical Infection” in certain segments of the American Church.

I really get the sense that the American Church is kind of a different animal than the Church around the world.

I believe that Francis is running into this as of late.

 

[Pulvis]

I can speak to some of this. As a former Baptist, with missionary family members, the Southern Baptists have been about mission work since the inception of the convention. Baptists look to the great commission as a setious charge by Christ. The international mission board oversees thousands of missionaries, and sends tens of thousands of students around the world for summer missionary trips. They take helping people in the form of Matthew 25 seriously. And spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ as the most important thing one can do. Look at Samaritans Purse. Franklin Graham has teams across the world serving thebpoo, the forgotten, and those suffering natural disasters. I had family in Haiti long before the earthquake. People respect that. People will listen to the Gospel when presented by those who really care about them.
Now i know that some evangelicals who go in to latin america are all about numbers, and use inticements to gain converts. But wth the Baptist, Methodist and Presbyterian organizations you rarely see disengenous methods used.
I believe that is what Pope Francis means in some of his teachings about getting out of the buildings, about smelling like the sheep. He has watched this all across south and central america.
Someone, when talking about the difference between Baptists and Catholics once said “they have the zeal but not the fullness of truth; we have the fullness of truth, but not the zeal.” I find much truth in that.

And as an aside, several commenters in this thread have made some not so considerate comments about protestants. While i will be the first to acknowledge the widespread errors and seemingly endless departures within protestantism, there are also many devout, God fearing, Christ led individuals within the protestant churches. We could learn from them. That they happened to have been born into a different branch of the Church, missing the fullness of truth, does not take away from the work they are doing to bring souls to the knowledge of Jesus and salvation.

 

[GUYMAN]

Peebo:
I don’t think this country is anywhere near as heavily influenced by Catholicism as it is by Evangelical Protestantism…most conservative politicians are influenced by right wing Evangelical thought on social issues…even conservative Catholics here in the US are more in line with them on issues such as climate change…immigration…capital punishment…capitalism etc than they are with the Vicar of Christ…I fear the Catholic church is being squeezed between Evangelical Protestantism from the right and liberal secularism from the left…Pope Benedict XVI while not directly stating it…did allude to the Catholic church becoming a smaller more purer church…maybe this is where God is leading his one true Catholic church

Excellent analysis

 

[hwriggles4]

But the arguments always seem to turn toward priests and bishops to set the tone for the parishes and dioceses. You can’t have it both ways. Just sayin…

As for not having enough priests, or Spanish priests in this case, it all comes down to chicken-egg. I guess what I’m trying to say is that maybe laity have too much power already. Parishes are run by mostly the laity. The bi-lingual differences and wars didn’t suddenly pop up overnight or get created by the clerics.

All my opinion only.

Here are a few observations I would like to share about Spanish Masses (my opinion only, and I realize some of this is the 800 lb. gorilla in the room), since this is often seen where I live in Texas, and I do have quite a few Hispanic friends. This may also be common in places such as Southern California, Arizona, and New Mexico.

Most of my Hispanic friends are bilingual, and speak good English, but some like to attend Mass in Spanish. However, many of them tell me at several parishes (not all, but several), they are turned off by the attitudes of the congregation. Not to be negative, but a large number come in late, their children are out of control, the congregation is not attentive, and many are not in the correct mindset for Mass. I know one parish near where I live where my Hispanic friends told me the priest really had to put his foot down at the Spanish Mass about proper decorum (and particularly proper attire). It is these reasons why quite a few of my Hispanic friends prefer to attend the English Mass.

Another reason some of my Hispanic friends prefer to attend Mass in English is at many parishes in my area, the regular attendees of Spanish Mass often feel like they are segregated from the rest of the parish, particularly if there is only one Spanish Mass. It would be nice if some of the Spanish only speakers would make the time to learn English (this was common among many of the immigrants from Europe between 1930 and 1950, where immigrants made it a point to learn another language. One thing I respect about the Asians and the Middle Eastern and those from India is that the majority learn English before coming to the United States and Canada.) since if one does not speak English they seem to be isolating themselves.

By the way, I do speak a little Spanish, and I do have several Hispanic friends, but the above is what I witness in Texas, and some of my Catholic friends (and Hispanic friends) agree. The parish I regularly attend does have a bilingual Mass on Sunday that is done in English and Spanish. I think this helped break down a few barriers (when this Mass was conceived, the pastor at the time did not want a “Spanish only Mass”, because he felt it would be isolated as I described above), and I do find that many who come to the bilingual Mass speak both English and Spanish. Some come to improve their English, and I come every few weeks to help my Spanish. They also have a faith formation program in the morning before Mass to help with education.

As far as the congregation and the “tone” of the bilingual Mass, the people are friendly, and the majority have an interest in their faith and are properly prepared, with most properly dressed. One reading is done in Spanish, and depending on the priest or the deacon, the Gospel is sometimes read in Spanish, and the homily is done twice - once in English and once in Spanish, and the prayers are switched around between English and Spanish. The music is pretty good, and the men in the choir normally wear black suits with white shirts and the ladies wear appropriate white blouses and black skirts of proper length. I couldn’t help noticing years ago that when the choir began to dress up, the congregation took the hint. The bar was set high, and the congregation rose.

Bottom line: Some Hispanics (some, not all) may find that a Catholic Mass in Spanish close to where they live is not to their liking, I have seen quite a few Baptist, Church of Christ, and Kingdom Halls with all Spanish congregations (i.e. their signs are only in Spanish) located throughout major cities in Texas, and I’m sure many are filled with non-practicing Catholics.

I’m sure there will be some differences of opinion, but those who live in Southern California and Texas may have similar observations.