Destruction from Within: Georgia Style

[Tigg]

the reason you think this way is because you are not in the True Church. there is such a thing is heretics in our world today just like in the past. Catholic bishops like Catholics are not to participate in ceremonies of any of these other religion. it is forbidden. just because this bishop decided to do this, it does not mean he is doing the right thing. he is not. we are not all in the same religion like so many ecumaniacs are trying to show. protestants wants us to believe that there is no diference between Catholics and protestants. that is a lie from the devil to undermine Christ’s Church. it wont work. God protects His Church from all heresies.

My dear friend - you and I are on the same page. It’s especially disturbing to see the compromises being made by those whom we hold to the highest standard. The many improprieties we see on an almost daily basis now (just look down the list of threads to see what bishop did this and what bishop did that) wear down the faithful of heart and we become vulnerable and de-sensitized to those things we know are not right. Then we say, “well…that’s not really so bad, and what can be the harm of it?” This is the subtle agenda of those who wish to tear the faith down, one brick at a time.

Now granted, there are different levels of wrong-doing. What has made me sick is that this article states the bishop has blessed same-sex partnerships. Didn’t Paul warn that homosexual behavior is one of the sins that will deprive one of heaven? (1 Cor. 6:9–10). If the Church teaches homosexuality is a grave disorder, (although not sinful unless a person acts upon it,) what does it say that a cleric would bless the “partnership” of the same? Or be part of a procession honoring that which is considered “disordered” by Catholic teaching? Unbelievable!!

 

[Tigg]

Your “opinion” proves nothing. It is your opinion, nothing more.

Apparently it is also the opinion of a couple of popes (albeit prior to Vat II.) Please read the following encyclicals:

Pope Pius IX, Graves ac diuturnae (# 4), March 23, 1875: “They [the faithful] should totally shun their religious celebrations, their buildings, and their chairs of pestilence which they have with impunity established to transmit the sacred teachings. They should shun their writings and all contact with them. They should not have any dealings or meetings with usurping priests and apostates from the faith who dare to exercise the duties of an ecclesiastical minister without possessing a legitimate mission or any jurisdiction.”

Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos #9, Jan. 6, 1928: “Everyone knows that John himself, the Apostle of love, who seems to reveal in his Gospel the secrets of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and who never ceased to impress on the memories of his followers the new commandment ‘Love one another,’ altogether forbade any intercourse with those who professed a mutilated and corrupt form of Christ’s teaching: ‘If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him: God speed you’ (II John 10).”

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos_en.html

However, I believe that rather than being dogmatically defined, it is more of a discipline. I sure remember when I came into the Church many many years ago as a convert, I was definitely told I could no longer attend any Protestant services for any reason.

 

[wisdomseeker]

My dear friend - you and I are on the same page. It’s especially disturbing to see the compromises being made by those whom we hold to the highest standard. The many improprieties we see on an almost daily basis now (just look down the list of threads to see what bishop did this and what bishop did that) wear down the faithful of heart and we become vulnerable and de-sensitized to those things we know are not right. Then we say, “well…that’s not really so bad, and what can be the harm of it?” This is the subtle agenda of those who wish to tear the faith down, one brick at a time.

Now granted, there are different levels of wrong-doing. What has made me sick is that this article states the bishop has blessed same-sex partnerships. Didn’t Paul warn that homosexual behavior is one of the sins that will deprive one of heaven? (1 Cor. 6:9–10). If the Church teaches homosexuality is a grave disorder, (although not sinful unless a person acts upon it,) what does it say that a cleric would bless the “partnership” of the same? Or be part of a procession honoring that which is considered “disordered” by Catholic teaching? Unbelievable!!

Because disobedience brings about another disobidience. one error will lead to another.
and goes on and on. obviously if he was interested in protecting the Faith he would not be doing none of those things. obviously he dosnt believe what the Church teaches if went to this ordination and if did blessed same sex marriage. do you see? one error leads to another. and i say this with respect to his office. obviously he is in authority and i cannot speak with the disrespect about him. i am just stating the facts.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Apparently it is also the opinion of a couple of popes (albeit prior to Vat II.) Please read the following encyclicals:

However, I believe that rather than being dogmatically defined, it is more of a discipline. I sure remember when I came into the Church many many years ago as a convert, I was definitely told I could no longer attend any Protestant services for any reason.

It is not just a discipline. it is to be done always. that is how the Faith is protected from heresies. now, just imagine Catholics being part of heretical teachings. what a mess would that be. we would not know what to believe anymore. you go to the CC, it says valid ordained priests, the True Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist, and so forth. now let’s see, protestants say, there is no Church, there is no apostolic succession, there is no… and goes on. how can any even contemplate such thing?

there is a reason why throughout the age of the Church these teachings exist. it is to protect the faithfull from falling into false teachings. it is pretty clear that today, these false teachings still exist and even more powerfull than never. Jesus said towards the end many will loose their faith. can we say this is happening today?

 

[catharina]

Apparently it is also the opinion of a couple of popes (albeit prior to Vat II.) Please read the following encyclicals:

However, I believe that rather than being dogmatically defined, it is more of a discipline. I sure remember when I came into the Church many many years ago as a convert, I was definitely told I could no longer attend any Protestant services for any reason.

Yes that is still the case for all of us, as it has ever been.
However I would never presume to judge the actions of a Catholic BISHOP.
Bishops shepherd and rule under the authority of the Holy Father.
If a Catholic imagines he/she has a legitimate concern re a Bishop, write to the Vatican.

Any Catholic who imagines himself/herself fit
to judge and condemn a Bishop is off the rails.

To do so in a public forum is to court the sin of scandal.
Such an action is shocking to me under this circumstance. It’s disgusting.

(Most definitely MY opinion. The Church supports the hierarchy, not grumblers.)

 

[catharina]

It is not just a discipline. it is to be done always. that is how the Faith is protected from heresies. **now, just imagine Catholics being part of heretical teachings. ** what a mess would that be. we would not know what to believe anymore. you go to the CC, it says valid ordained priests, the True Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist, and so forth. now let’s see, protestants say, there is no Church, there is no apostolic succession, there is no… and goes on. how can any even contemplate such thing?

there is a reason why throughout the age of the Church these teachings exist. it is to protect the faithfull from falling into false teachings. it is pretty clear that today, these false teachings still exist and even more powerfull than never. Jesus said towards the end many will loose their faith. can we say this is happening today?

Re-read Post # 15.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

Yet YOU are claiming that today's Protestants are heretics. 
The Church FORBIDS that very usage.  Please, get a clue.

Bishop Boland attended a ceremony **as a Roman Catholic bishop**.
He was not "garbed" for a liturgical celebration - was he?

 

[ChrisLane]

Bishop Kevin Boland of Savannah, Georgia attends the ordination of an Episcopal (rainbow-clad) priest. Boland also has a history of involvement with LGBT groups. More from Catholic Examiner:

examiner.com/examiner/x-53647-Catholic-Examiner~y2010m7d11-Destruction-from-within-Georgiastyle

The article says nothing about him (Bishop Boland) having a “history of involvement with LGBT groups.” It says he attended a heretical “consecration”. It also says someone participated in a procession, but the pronoun “he” is ambiguous - could refer to Boland or Benhase.

He (Bishop Boland) showed up, and he might have walked with some people. The Lord did much more with people guilty of much worse. Unless I’m missing something, the reaction this has gotten is way overblown.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Re-read Post # 15.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

Yet YOU are claiming that today's Protestants are heretics. 
The Church FORBIDS that very usage.  Please, get a clue.

Bishop Boland attended a ceremony **as a Roman Catholic bishop**.
He was not "garbed" for a liturgical celebration - was he?

and where does it say here that we are to go to their services? it only says for us to recognize them as christians that is all, nothing more.

 

[Chiltepin]

Yes that is still the case for all of us, as it has ever been.
However I would never presume to judge the actions of a Catholic BISHOP.
Bishops shepherd and rule under the authority of the Holy Father.
If a Catholic imagines he/she has a legitimate concern re a Bishop, write to the Vatican.

Any Catholic who imagines himself/herself fit
to judge and condemn a Bishop is off the rails.

To do so in a public forum is to court the sin of scandal.
Such an action is shocking to me under this circumstance. It’s disgusting.

(Most definitely MY opinion. The Church supports the hierarchy, not grumblers.)

You’re right. Thank you.

 

[catharina]

and where does it say here that we are to go to their services? it only says for us to recognize them as christians that is all, nothing more.

Suppose that you object to the following as well:

"Interfaith Pioneer Klenicki Knighted By Pope For Historic Contributions To Jewish-Catholic Relations

New York, NY, August 27, 2007 … Rabbi Leon Klenicki, the Anti-Defamation League’s Interfaith Affairs Director Emeritus, has been knighted by Pope Benedict XVI for his historic contributions in creating positive relationships between Catholics and Jews around the world. Rabbi Klenicki was made a Papal Knight of the Order of St. Gregory the Great at a ceremony at the Vatican’s Mission to the United Nations, presided by Cardinal Sean O’Malley of Boston."

adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/5119_96.htm

Don’t you understand the concept of teaching all nations?
Of giving witness to our beliefs as an act of evangelization?
Of recognizing and celebrating the Body of Christ (that includes - gasp - Protestants?)

Do you live in a bubble of your own invention, that allows you to criticize authority?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Suppose that you object to the following as well:

"Interfaith Pioneer Klenicki Knighted By Pope For Historic Contributions To Jewish-Catholic Relations

New York, NY, August 27, 2007 … Rabbi Leon Klenicki, the Anti-Defamation League’s Interfaith Affairs Director Emeritus, has been knighted by Pope Benedict XVI for his historic contributions in creating positive relationships between Catholics and Jews around the world. Rabbi Klenicki was made a Papal Knight of the Order of St. Gregory the Great at a ceremony at the Vatican’s Mission to the United Nations, presided by Cardinal Sean O’Malley of Boston."

adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/5119_96.htm

Don’t you understand the concept of teaching all nations?
Of giving witness to our beliefs as an act of evangelization?
Of recognizing and celebrating the Body of Christ (that includes - gasp - Protestants?)

Do you live in a bubble of your own invention, that allows you to criticize authority?

do you believe that the CC is the one True Church who was sent by Christ to teach all men?

here
2 Corinthians 11:4
For if someone comes and preaches another Jesus than the one we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it well enough.

2 Peter 2:21
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them

 

[catharina]

do you believe that the CC is the one True Church who was sent by Christ to teach all men?

**Surely you jest?
Of course I believe that the CATHOLIC CHURCH is the one true Church,
founded by Jesus Christ te teach, lead and comfort all men.

Do YOU believe in evangelization, in witness, in recognizing GOOD?**

here
2 Corinthians 11:4
For if someone comes and preaches another Jesus than the one we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it well enough.

2 Peter 2:21
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them

Now go back and answer MY question!
The Holy Father granted knighthood to a Jewish leader.
What do YOU think about that???

 

[wisdomseeker]

Now go back and answer MY question!
The Holy Father granted knighthood to a Jewish leader.
What do YOU think about that???

he is a knight to the CC?

good for him. he is working for the Church. am i right?

now tell me where in teh Catechism says that we must be participants in servces of other faith groups other than Catholic?

 

[catharina]

he is a knight to the CC?

good for him. he is working for the Church. am i right?

now tell me where in teh Catechism says that we must be participants in servces of other faith groups other than Catholic?

If you can’t comprehend evangelization and/or giving Catholic witness,
then I certainly can’t make it clear to you. Do you accept the command to evangelize?

cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/17/italy.pope.synagigue/index.html

"Pope visits synagogue, calls for dialogue
January 17, 2010 7:43 p.m. EST

Rome, Italy (CNN) – Pope Benedict XVI visited the main Jewish synagogue in Rome on Sunday, a trip that unfolded amid heightened tension between Catholics and Jews.

Benedict was the first pope in 24 years to visit the Tempio Maggiore, or Great Temple. He called on Catholics and Jews to keep an open dialogue and work together to tackle problems, such as poverty and disease.

“As Moses taught … and as Jesus affirms in the Gospel, all of the commandments are summed up in the love of God and loving-kindness towards one’s neighbor,” the pope said, according to a Vatican transcript.

“This rule urges Jews and Christians to exercise, in our time, a special generosity towards the poor, towards women and children, strangers, the sick, the weak and the needy.”

Christians and Jews “share to a great extent a common spiritual patrimony,” but “often remain unknown to each other,” he said.

“It is our duty, in response to God’s call, to strive to keep open the space for dialogue, for reciprocal respect, for growth in friendship, for a common witness in the face of challenges of our time, which invite us to cooperate for the good of humanity …”

You seem to have fallen far behind in the matter of current events
and the need to bear witness as Catholics, to present ourselves as Catholic witnesses.

Suggest you study the issues of:

1. Ecumenism
2. Inter-faith dialogue.

 

[wisdomseeker]

If you can’t comprehend evangelization and/or giving Catholic witness,
then I certainly can’t make it clear to you. Do you accept the command to evangelize?

cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/17/italy.pope.synagigue/index.html

"Pope visits synagogue, calls for dialogue
January 17, 2010 7:43 p.m. EST

Rome, Italy (CNN) – Pope Benedict XVI visited the main Jewish synagogue in Rome on Sunday, a trip that unfolded amid heightened tension between Catholics and Jews.

Benedict was the first pope in 24 years to visit the Tempio Maggiore, or Great Temple. He called on Catholics and Jews to keep an open dialogue and work together to tackle problems, such as poverty and disease.

“As Moses taught … and as Jesus affirms in the Gospel, all of the commandments are summed up in the love of God and loving-kindness towards one’s neighbor,” the pope said, according to a Vatican transcript.

“This rule urges Jews and Christians to exercise, in our time, a special generosity towards the poor, towards women and children, strangers, the sick, the weak and the needy.”

Christians and Jews “share to a great extent a common spiritual patrimony,” but “often remain unknown to each other,” he said.

“It is our duty, in response to God’s call, to strive to keep open the space for dialogue, for reciprocal respect, for growth in friendship, for a common witness in the face of challenges of our time, which invite us to cooperate for the good of humanity …”

You seem to have fallen far behind in the matter of current events
and the need to bear witness as Catholics, to present ourselves as Catholic witnesses.

Suggest you study the issues of:

1. Ecumenism
2. Inter-faith dialogue.

i am sorry, i dont think we are understanding each other. evangelization is bringing people into the Church. you seem to think that we are to be a part of their services.

no, again no. we are not to go to protestants services. whoever is promoting this does not know what the Church teaches. did you hear the Cardinal speaking on this?

 

[catharina]

i am sorry, i dont think we are understanding each other. evangelization is bringing people into the Church. you seem to think that we are to be a part of their services.

no, again no. we are not to go to protestants services. whoever is promoting this does not know what the Church teaches. did you hear the Cardinal speaking on this?

**I ALREADY ADRESSED THIS FACT IN POST #25.
PERHAPS YOU OVERLOOKED IT. **

**
In addition, I’ve stated repeatedly that we have NO authority to direct the bishops.
If you have a legitimate concern - WRITE TO THE VATICAN.**