Detachment

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Now that I am coming to an end of my time in Houston I find myself planning on my move to the novitiate.

I love books and I have a lot. I do not think I will be able to move them all to the novitiate.

I am going though them to see what I will get rid of. Then there are other objects of my past life I am looking at leaving behind.

It is a hard thing but there is even a harder thing.

There is something that I feel greatly attached to. I am praying on it. Right now I am deciding whether to give it up on my own or wait until I am asked to do so, if I ever am asked to.
 
puzzleannie said:
yes it is possible, as in the example in OP, an attachment to an object which represents a spiritual good. One of the saints, maybe John, warns of those who must have elaborate expensive rosaries or jewelled crosses to be able to pray. An analogy would be someone who can’t “enjoy” Mass in a church that does not have stained glass windows, pews, statues etc. to his liking.

We have a guest speaker at our rosary cenacles from time to time, and one of our best is a deacon from Mexico who is a wonderful spiritual director besides. He talks about (and boy I had to be very careful on the translation from Spanish with this one!) spiritual masturbation. by this he means using spiritual works, devotions, retreats, experiences as a means of providing pleasure for oneself, not as means to praise and grow closer to God. He does not mean sexual pleasure of course, but the pleasure of ownership, of spiritual pride, of presumption, neglect of other duties, comparing one’s own spiritual “performance” with that of others. The rosary becomes boring, so we keep jumping to other devotions, or multiplying devotions, so we get the warm fuzzies back again. We commit to a third order spirituality, but when that gets old, or we become discontented with the people, we move to a new group. We parish hop for a priest who makes us feel good with his sermons and confessions. We are active in parish life and other good works, but for the praise and recognition we get, not because we want to serve Christ.
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very insightful post.
 
At some point in our lives, we won’t even want spiritual “things.”

The Spiritual Canticle of St. John of the Cross, expersses it so well.

"Ah, who has the power to heal me?
now wholly surrender yourself!
Do not send me any more messengers,
they cannot tell me what I must hear. "

Our hearts, wounded by His love, desire Him and nothing or anyone else will do anymore. No holy pictures, no people preaching great homilies or well written spiritual books. Holy union with our Beloved, Jesus Christ will do.

Jim
 
Hello,

Yes, spiritual goods can become attachments. Think of spiritual pride. And of making ascetism the end in itself instead of a means.

A good rule of thumb for anything is: if you give any resistance to giving it up, there is an attachment. For example, if you have a possession and someone asks for it, and you resist - it is because you are attached to that possession. (Mt 5:40,42 ; Lk 6:30)

Likewise if you perform some measure of ascetism and your spiritual father tells you to stop it or do something else, and you resist - it is because you are attached to that.

Absolutely anything can become an attachment. There is one and only one thing that one can never, ever become too attached to - and that is God. 👍

And as the Borg say: Resistance is futile!
(I have been watching way too much Star Trek lately 😃 )
 
Hello,
JimR-OCDS said:
At some point in our lives, we won’t even want spiritual “things.”

The Spiritual Canticle of St. John of the Cross, expersses it so well.

"Ah, who has the power to heal me?
now wholly surrender yourself!
Do not send me any more messengers,
they cannot tell me what I must hear. "

Our hearts, wounded by His love, desire Him and nothing or anyone else will do anymore. No holy pictures, no people preaching great homilies or well written spiritual books. Holy union with our Beloved, Jesus Christ will do.

Jim
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OOOO! I like that. Saint John of the Cross is a perennial favorite. 👍
 
These spiritual aids or things are a good thing to begin with, they strengthen our faith and help us to progress but we must not cling to them or they will impede us in spiritual growth. Neither must we cling to a way of prayer seeing it as the summit above the promptings of the Holy Spirit in His ways of Contemplation which lead to union with Jesus Who is the summit of prayer and all spirituality.

All of the sins of pride, lust, envy, greed etc are to be found in the spiritual life also. Spiritual pride, spiritual greed, spiritual envy etc.

We are even to be spiritually detached from our standing with God, that is to stand before God without expectation desiring to love and serve God and neighbour even if we should suffer hell for it and receive no reward. This is a holy detachment. We must be ready to give up everything even life itself.

cccIf we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.
 
Fr. Thomas Dubay says we should move towards meditative prayer. so if your prayer routine interferes with that, you may not be growing closer to God.

Perhaps being too attached to certain devotions and prayers keeps you from hearing God’s voice.
 
Good post, ByzCath.

I was recently meditating on detachment. The way I see it, if something enlightens us at a moment as to some kind of attachment, it could very well be our guardian angel bringing it to our attention. I’ve found that practicing detachment from small things, aids with the detachment from bigger things. It’s much like the benefit a basketball player gets by shooting hoops outside the game. He doesn’t score any points, but he is polishing his play for the big game.

Attachment to certain grave sins is at the top of the list for things to detach from.

Attachment to venial sins is also up there.

These are areas, where if you have a good confessor, or even one who is a Carmelite, the Sacrament of Penance becomes so beneficial.

I discovered in the early going that my attachment to television had to go. I learned this quickly when I could not get all of my Carmelite prayers in daily. I became ashamed at the thought that I could give several hours to the tube, but couldn’t give my Lord an hour. I feel so liberated now that I’m not attached to all those prime-time programs that once ruled when I came and went. It was only later that I realized just how offensive much of the content and story lines are to Our Lord. I simply cannot watch them any more because I feel they hurt Him (subtle and not-so-subtle promotion of casual sex, alternative lifestyles, and a focus on the lewd, etc.)

I recently concluded that this journey in life is all about detaching ourselves from all until All that is left is Him.

Good topic for discussion 👍
 
Lux_et_veritas said:
Good post, ByzCath.

I was recently meditating on detachment. The way I see it, if something enlightens us at a moment as to some kind of attachment, it could very well be our guardian angel bringing it to our attention. I’ve found that practicing detachment from small things, aids with the detachment from bigger things. It’s much like the benefit a basketball player gets by shooting hoops outside the game. He doesn’t score any points, but he is polishing his play for the big game.

Attachment to certain grave sins is at the top of the list for things to detach from.

Attachment to venial sins is also up there.

These are areas, where if you have a good confessor, or even one who is a Carmelite, the Sacrament of Penance becomes so beneficial.

I discovered in the early going that my attachment to television had to go. I learned this quickly when I could not get all of my Carmelite prayers in daily. I became ashamed at the thought that I could give several hours to the tube, but couldn’t give my Lord an hour. I feel so liberated now that I’m not attached to all those prime-time programs that once ruled when I came and went. It was only later that I realized just how offensive much of the content and story lines are to Our Lord. I simply cannot watch them any more because I feel they hurt Him (subtle and not-so-subtle promotion of casual sex, alternative lifestyles, and a focus on the lewd, etc.)

I recently concluded that this journey in life is all about detaching ourselves from all until All that is left is Him.

Good topic for discussion 👍
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We are discouraged from going to confession with a member of the community for obvious reasons. Especially while in the formation program as those members have a say in our future.

Having said that, my attachment is not with grave sins, or even sins at all. My attachment, the main issue I am dealing with right now, could be viewed as something that is spiritually good.

I am praying on it and in discussion with my spiritual director on it.

I guess it can not hurt to say it here.

It is my attachment to my Church. That is to being a Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic.
 
Hello,
ByzCath said:
It is my attachment to my Church. That is to being a Byzantine Ruthenian Catholic.
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:confused: You can’t be in the Byzantine rite and in the Carmelite order at the same time? Why not? We have Byzantine Benedictines, Byzantine Franciscans, etc. - so why not a Byzantine Carmelite (I like the sound of that 🙂 )
 
JMJ_coder said:
Hello,

:confused: You can’t be in the Byzantine rite and in the Carmelite order at the same time? Why not? We have Byzantine Benedictines, Byzantine Franciscans, etc. - so why not a Byzantine Carmelite (I like the sound of that 🙂 )
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Yes you can be a Byzantine Catholic and join the Carmelite order.

There is a difference than the Byzantine Benedictines and the Byzantine Franciscans.

That difference is that both of those groups, well really only the Byzantine Franciscans as the Byzantine Benedictines have dropped their affiliation with the over all Benedictine community and are now wholly Byzantine, is that they have a Byzantine foundation.

The Carmelite order, at least the men, do not have any Byzantine foundations. So while I can stay a Byzantine there really is no avenue open for me to practice such a thing.

I feel called to active community life. This is not something that is readily found within the Byzantine Church. Yes we have religious but they are all monastics and not active. There are a hand full of Latin orders that have Byzantine Foundations but they all end up working as parish priests and living the same as the secular priests rather than living in community.

There is some resistance from individual members in the order to Byzantines. There is also the fact that all of my education will be Western and the fact that I live in the Western World and have a Western mindset. Yes, I do love the Byzantine rite and all of it but without getting the proper education and not being able to live in an active community, is that something that I am called to be in?
 
JMJ_coder said:
:confused: You can’t be in the Byzantine rite and in the Carmelite order at the same time? Why not? We have Byzantine Benedictines, Byzantine Franciscans, etc. - so why not a Byzantine Carmelite (I like the sound of that 🙂 )
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As an aspiring OCDS too, I’ve been reading some formation materials and this one states that it suffices that one is a member of the Roman Catholic Church to be a Discalced Carmelite. Not Roman as of the Latin Rite, but as one under the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, whether of the Melkite Rite, Maronite, Copt, etc.

May Our Lady of Mt. Carmel intercede for you as you discern the call of God in your life.

:blessyou:
 
Augustine said:
As an aspiring OCDS too, I’ve been reading some formation materials and this one states that it suffices that one is a member of the Roman Catholic Church to be a Discalced Carmelite. Not Roman as of the Latin Rite, but as one under the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, whether of the Melkite Rite, Maronite, Copt, etc.

May Our Lady of Mt. Carmel intercede for you as you discern the call of God in your life.

:blessyou:
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Canon Law makes this allowance but individual orders can and do modify this at times.

There are a group of Indian Discalced Carmelites who are transferring to the Carmelites at the request of Rome because the Discalced province they belong to ordered them to switch to the Latin Church and their General upheld that order.

There is some resistance within orders, those that do not have any Byzantine foundations, to allow those of other “rites” to join them. Some of that resistance is organizational in nature as the orders do not really understand what needs to be done and how to do it.
 
ByzCath said:
How does one know if they are attached to something in such a way?
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I think there is nothing wrong with having an interest in something and/or activity that is good, constructive, or recreational that occupies us. Examples are prayer and work and any associated items. Even if we have such an interest for life, I see nothing wrong.

Even if someone daydreams and looks forward to the activity I see nothing wrong. For example if a child is really happy about their new bicycle they might think about it often and look forward to riding it. I think that can be OK.

To me signs of an attachment are:
  • The object is seen as an end to itself rather than seen for its usefulness for an activity or service.
  • It is a particular object and it is used beyond its associated activity.
    For example, if a talented carpenter really enjoys his work including using a hammer. If this is his life’s work and he enjoys it I think that is wonderful!
However, if he has a particular hammer with a yellow handle that he takes with him everywhere and he keeps it next to his pillow at night then there is a disordered attachment.
 
Hello,
ByzCath said:
Yes you can be a Byzantine Catholic and join the Carmelite order.

There is a difference than the Byzantine Benedictines and the Byzantine Franciscans.

That difference is that both of those groups, well really only the Byzantine Franciscans as the Byzantine Benedictines have dropped their affiliation with the over all Benedictine community and are now wholly Byzantine, is that they have a Byzantine foundation.

The Carmelite order, at least the men, do not have any Byzantine foundations. So while I can stay a Byzantine there really is no avenue open for me to practice such a thing.

I feel called to active community life. This is not something that is readily found within the Byzantine Church. Yes we have religious but they are all monastics and not active. There are a hand full of Latin orders that have Byzantine Foundations but they all end up working as parish priests and living the same as the secular priests rather than living in community.

There is some resistance from individual members in the order to Byzantines. There is also the fact that all of my education will be Western and the fact that I live in the Western World and have a Western mindset. Yes, I do love the Byzantine rite and all of it but without getting the proper education and not being able to live in an active community, is that something that I am called to be in?
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If you are comfortable talking about it, I’d love to learn more and if at all possible help. If you would like to talk, but not in a public forum, feel free to PM me. Whatever you are most comfortable with.

Are you in formation for the Priesthood, or for a Religious Brother?

And is there a required University or Seminary that you will be required to attend, or are you free to select your own Institute of learning? If you can choose, then there may be some light.
 
I think detachment is something we need to be very careful about. I know along my own path I have misread detachment as meaning I should have no affectionate bonds with people, which in fact was really a subtle egoistic self-deception which inhibited my growth.

Many great spiritual writers talk a lot about detachment, but detachment is always associated with great charity and growth in the traditional virtues of a holy life. In the act of contemplation, detachment to my understanding is letting go of images of creatures and also the operations of the normal reasoning intellect in favour of an ‘unknowing’ approach to God. In terms of the active life, detachment to my understanding is removing from our will objects of disordered creaturely affection or attachment which form the roots of venial or mortal sin and conforming our wills to that of God until we are joined with God ‘as one spirit’ but in two loving and co-operating wills.

How this is to be done however, is probably best discussed with one’s spiritual director, since each person no doubt has different attachments which might hinder their growth in different ways.
 
“This Saturday we had a morning Mass as we had a workshop in the House. We do not normally have a Saturday Mass as that is our free day, except when we have a workshop.”

Geez, I never thought detachment has such a high place in our sanctification; even receiving Our Lord in the Holy Mass daily could be yield to detachment, just because it is a free day?

:ehh:
 
I have an attachment to my great grandfathers Rosary. He had an alter in his closet where he would pray the Rosary daily. It has broken on me twice and I have fixed it and if it broke on me again or a piece of the chain went missing I would make a new one out of its parts because to me they are special and they also help my devotion to God. I remember someone tried to rip apart a Rosary infront of me once and I quickly took it. I have a place where I keep Rosary parts and old Rosarys because I can’t throw them away. I have a special devotion to the Rosary and if it is an attachment, then I’m attached to a prayer or devotion and I think that attachment will take me strait to Heaven.

Your brother in Christ

“If you are what you should be, you will set the world on fire.”–Saint Catherine of Siena
 
Brother Sun,

I have an exeptional attration to beautiful things because they reflect the Divine beauty. That’s not attachment because as beautiful as they are, they are only creatures. I think your “attachment” to rosaries should only be a means to the one and only ultimate attachment → GOD; because you will unite with your Creator in Paradise, not your rosaries, and you are in union with your “relatives” also ONLY through the union with God.

Sister Moon
😃
 
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