Deteriorating species

  • Thread starter Thread starter Della
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Della

Guest
We know that species go extinct all the time. So, I was thinking, if we humans are subject to the “ordinary laws of nature” (using the term just for our purposes), could it be that we will be on the edge of extinction ourselves before Christ returns, and that he will hold off until that happens, or do you think we could going on and on as we are indefinitely? I was wondering because the more we advance in medicine the more we seem to be producing children with disorders such as autism (not to single out autistics, but just as an example). And if we are, is that a part of being physical creatures in a limited natural system? Could it be that our time is limited as a species and that God is working within that “law”? Or we are outside it? And does it make any real difference?
 
I do not think it is possible to speculate if we ever will go extinct.

However; God knows the future; so if we do go extinct he will know when and where; if that has any bearing at all on the Second Coming; which we could only speculate about.
 
We know that species go extinct all the time. So, I was thinking, if we humans are subject to the “ordinary laws of nature” (using the term just for our purposes), could it be that we will be on the edge of extinction ourselves before Christ returns, and that he will hold off until that happens, or do you think we could going on and on as we are indefinitely?
We are certainly subject to the laws of nature as far as our body is concerned. So there is no scientific reason why human beings should not become extinct. Since life on earth has nearly become extinct several times before we existed there is good reason to believe God has already intervened to ensure its (and our) survival. It would not make sense for Jesus to return after we have all disappeared but we have no way of predicting how long it will be before those events occur.
I was wondering because the more we advance in medicine the more we seem to be producing children with disorders such as autism (not to single out autistics, but just as an example). And if we are, is that a part of being physical creatures in a limited natural system? Could it be that our time is limited as a species and that God is working within that “law”? Or we are outside it? And does it make any real difference?
God is the author of all physical laws and is not bound by them. He has given us the power to understand and apply those laws to lengthen our life span. It is possible we shall survive as a race for far more years than we imagine but the only difference it will make will not be for us as individuals; it will be for the number of descendants we have and their opportunities to enjoy the immense richness of life on earth - and in heaven. That is why we have an obligation to preserve this world not only for them but for all living creatures…
 
A while back I read a book called Catholic Prophecy besides some non-Catholic thinking on the subject of the Second Coming. From that and various spiritual books (like St. Faustina’s diary), it seems that Our Lord will come back way before we have the chance to become extinct. However, we could become nearly extinct just before the Second Coming if we nuke ourselves to death. :eek:
 
I think there will be plenty of humans left for the second coming of Jesus. It is written that He will judge the living and the dead.

Take care.
 
I do not think it is possible to speculate if we ever will go extinct.

However; God knows the future; so if we do go extinct he will know when and where; if that has any bearing at all on the Second Coming; which we could only speculate about.
Oh, but it is my friend. We most certainly will go extinct. The Andromeda Galaxy and Milky Way are going to collide in about 3.5 billion years. Before that, the Moon, with a positive h-dot of 2 inches per year, is going to cease acting as a gyro stabilizer on the Earth’s axis in about 2 billion years. Before that, our step mother, the Sun, is going to heat up to the point where it will boil the oceans away in about 1.5 billio years.

Long before that, we may become extinct by being hoisted on our own petard. Even now, we are ignoring climate change, over populating the planet, and stock piling nuclear warheads.
 
Oh, but it is my friend. We most certainly will go extinct. The Andromeda Galaxy and Milky Way are going to collide in about 3.5 billion years. Before that, the Moon, with a positive h-dot of 2 inches per year, is going to cease acting as a gyro stabilizer on the Earth’s axis in about 2 billion years. Before that, our step mother, the Sun, is going to heat up to the point where it will boil the oceans away in about 1.5 billio years.
Of course, but as we progress in technology and science we may find a way to populate other planets, and there is no telling what the effects Andromeda hitting the Milky Way may have. It’s a long way off–it will be up to our descendants to deal with that problem.

The extinct I’m talking about is the overall weakening of our species through natural selection. It seems to me that species come to a head in development and then disappear all on their own with no help from larger cosmic forces. The dinosaurs, for example, we well on their way out before the asteroid hit that devastated earth 65 million years ago. So, the question is, do we humans have a sort of built in expiration date and are we beginning to see the effects of it now?
Long before that, we may become extinct by being hoisted on our own petard. Even now, we are ignoring climate change, over populating the planet, and stock piling nuclear warheads.
It’s not all that clear that we are doing any of those things. Actually, we are not over-populating the planet. Falling birthrates have seen to that, especially in China where parents are desperate to find wives for their sons because so many female babies were aborted. And the earth has gone through several climates changes over the billions of years it’s existed–that’s nothing new. As for nuclear weapons, we are in the greatest danger from some terrorist group getting hold of one, not of Russia and the US bombing each other, and so humankind, out of existence.

The question is–are we humans going to come to a natural end, and if we are, when will that be?
 
Of course, but as we progress in technology and science we may find a way to populate other planets, and there is no telling what the effects Andromeda hitting the Milky Way may have. It’s a long way off–it will be up to our descendants to deal with that problem.
There are limits. We live in the Sun’s Corona and it protects us from cosmic rays. Outside the Rankine-Hugoniot shock front at the Heliopause, you literally fly into a microwave oven on full power. This problem is probably insurmountable. That’s even discounting the fact that we don’t even know where there are other planets we could live on, let alone how to get to them.
The extinct I’m talking about is the overall weakening of our species through natural selection. It seems to me that species come to a head in development and then disappear all on their own with no help from larger cosmic forces. The dinosaurs, for example, we well on their way out before the asteroid hit that devastated earth 65 million years ago. So, the question is, do we humans have a sort of built in expiration date and are we beginning to see the effects of it now?
In a word, no. I can put your mind at rest here. That is not how Evolution works at all.

The dinosaurs were not “well on the way out” before the KT event, whatever that event was. They died out gradually in the quarter million years after the KT event, for reasons that are believed to be related to, wait for it, drum roll da da da da da da da da da…

Climate Change!

As for retrograde Evolution, that does not occur the way you illustrate. Only a change in environmental conditions that would compromise or destroy ecological niches would put a species in jeopardy. That is why it is important that we acknowledge climate change. It is a huge threat, more than people realise. A lot of us could die because of it.
It’s not all that clear that we are doing any of those things. Actually, we are not over-populating the planet. Falling birthrates have seen to that, especially in China where parents are desperate to find wives for their sons because so many female babies were aborted.
And the earth has gone through several climates changes over the billions of years it’s existed–that’s nothing new. As for nuclear weapons, we are in the greatest danger from some terrorist group getting hold of one, not of Russia and the US bombing each other, and so humankind, out of existence.
The question is–are we humans going to come to a natural end, and if we are, when will that be?
You have very little understanding of biological systems.

Firstly, human beings are one of the more vulnerable species to extinction because our complexity compromises the speed with which we can biologically adapt. We are also one of the least relevant to the wellbeing of the living biosphere on this planet.

If human beings became extinct, the biosphere at large would actually benefit from it since we are now poised on the brink of wiping out more biodiversity than the KT event, making us the causal agent of a mass extinction. This is not rhetoric, you can look that up and confirm it on any internet search engine.

If, on the other hand, cyanobacteria were to be wiped out, much of the life on this planet would be destroyed with it. Speaking of bacteria, it’s a chastening thought that only ten percent of the cells that make us up contain human DNA. Ninety percent of what we are is microbial, the human body providing a portable ecosystem for bacteria with the checks and balances bacteria need to evolve.

Secondly, I can assure you that we most certainly are overpopulating the planet. There are several times more humans on Earth than the Earth can sustainably support given our current activities. We are depeleting many resources at an alarming rate, to the point where we’d actually need three planet Earth’s to continue our current lifestyle indefinitely. We are going to have to stop burying our heads in the sand and acknowledge that this simply will not do. Not if we wish to maintain our current lifestyle. Not if we wish to survive at all.

Thirdly, the situation between Russia and America now is reasonably stable because a balance of power has been struck over a number of eye wateringly alarming decades after World War II. With China advancing rapidly in manufacturing skill and output, and America’s manufacturing in steep decline, the focus will shift to China. That is when more saber rattling and possibly even wars will ensue, endangering mankind yet again, the lessons of the past forgotten as always.
 
We won’t go extinct before Christ returns, as someone above noted, He will be judging the living and the dead. Also we know from the NT that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church… and the Church is composed of people, so…

The reason why there are so may people with terrible conditions is because of modern medicine and therapy. In olden times they never would have survived. The human genome is pretty resilient.

The human race is well equiped to survive almost anything, we can live in the most hostile environments (for example, the Eskimo).
 
There are limits. We live in the Sun’s Corona and it protects us from cosmic rays. Outside the Rankine-Hugoniot shock front at the Heliopause, you literally fly into a microwave oven on full power. This problem is probably insurmountable. That’s even discounting the fact that we don’t even know where there are other planets we could live on, let alone how to get to them.
In any case, it’s nothing we need bother about for now. We don’t have the technology to do anything about it yet. We may someday, or not. Only the future will tell. Yes?
In a word, no. I can put your mind at rest here. That is not how Evolution works at all.
The dinosaurs were not “well on the way out” before the KT event, whatever that event was. They died out gradually in the quarter million years after the KT event, for reasons that are believed to be related to, wait for it, drum roll da da da da da da da da da…
Climate Change!
Well, it’s not all that clear that that’s what did them in, either. There were dinosaurs that lived in arctic conditions, for example. We really don’t “know”, we can only surmise from what we’ve learned, bu it’s hardly a settled matter.
As for retrograde Evolution, that does not occur the way you illustrate. Only a change in environmental conditions that would compromise or destroy ecological niches would put a species in jeopardy. That is why it is important that we acknowledge climate change. It is a huge threat, more than people realise. A lot of us could die because of it.
Certainly some species need specialized environments, but not all. Still, most species that ever lived have gone extinct. We really don’t know why–the environment is certainly a factor, but is probably not the whole picture. It’s romantic to nail one thing down to make it the villain, but not usually how things work in reality.
You have very little understanding of biological systems.
That could be, but does anyone really have all the answers? Probably not.
Firstly, human beings are one of the more vulnerable species to extinction because our complexity compromises the speed with which we can biologically adapt. We are also one of the least relevant to the wellbeing of the living biosphere on this planet.
If human beings became extinct, the biosphere at large would actually benefit from it since we are now poised on the brink of wiping out more biodiversity than the KT event, making us the causal agent of a mass extinction. This is not rhetoric, you can look that up and confirm it on any internet search engine.
I don’t agree with your first proposition. We’re pretty hardy lot, on the whole. It’s why we’ve managed to adapt ourselves to every environment on the planet. As for the second, we don’t have to be the most relevant to the wellbeing of the planet in order to be the most important species on it. Only we can prevent another asteroid from hitting the earth–let’s see the bacteria do that. 😉
If, on the other hand, cyanobacteria were to be wiped out, much of the life on this planet would be destroyed with it. Speaking of bacteria, it’s a chastening thought that only ten percent of the cells that make us up contain human DNA. Ninety percent of what we are is microbial, the human body providing a portable ecosystem for bacteria with the checks and balances bacteria need to evolve.
Secondly, I can assure you that we most certainly are overpopulating the planet. There are several times more humans on Earth than the Earth can sustainably support given our current activities. We are depeleting many resources at an alarming rate, to the point where we’d actually need three planet Earth’s to continue our current lifestyle indefinitely. We are going to have to stop burying our heads in the sand and acknowledge that this simply will not do. Not if we wish to maintain our current lifestyle. Not if we wish to survive at all.
Certainly we need not be wasteful, but limiting the human population by draconian means is not the answer. And there is plenty of food to feed everyone–it’s simply not distributed properly due to humans failing to care for each other as we ought to.
Thirdly, the situation between Russia and America now is reasonably stable because a balance of power has been struck over a number of eye wateringly alarming decades after World War II. With China advancing rapidly in manufacturing skill and output, and America’s manufacturing in steep decline, the focus will shift to China. That is when more saber rattling and possibly even wars will ensue, endangering mankind yet again, the lessons of the past forgotten as always.
It’s possible China could become a threat, but if they wanted to take advantage of the laxity following the Cold War, they would have by now. They’re too busy trying to keep their own economy going to bother about making war. No, it’s the Muslim world that has the most to gain and the will to do whatever it takes to dominate the planet. It wasn’t the Chinese that flew airplanes into buildings on American soil. Anyone who cannot see the real threat here is the one burying his head in the sand (not that you are, just saying).
 
We won’t go extinct before Christ returns, as someone above noted, He will be judging the living and the dead. Also we know from the NT that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church… and the Church is composed of people, so…
Oh yes, absolutely. That doesn’t mean, though that we, as a species couldn’t be in danger of drastic reductions in the population from any number of factors. I guess I’m thinking we might see some major lessening in human strength and numbers before Jesus returns that would have led to our extinction.
The reason why there are so may people with terrible conditions is because of modern medicine and therapy. In olden times they never would have survived. The human genome is pretty resilient.
The human race is well equiped to survive almost anything, we can live in the most hostile environments (for example, the Eskimo).
Yes, as I wrote in reply to Moonstruck, we’re a pretty hardy lot, all in all. Still, we’re not invulnerable. We’ve nearly been wiped out more than once by natural catastrophes and diseases. We could face another situation, maybe a man-made one, that might kill off a good part of the population. I’m just wondering how such a scenario might fit into God’s plan for the culmination of the ages.
 
As for the second, we don’t have to be the most relevant to the wellbeing of the planet in order to be the most important species on it. Only we can prevent another asteroid from hitting the earth–let’s see the bacteria do that. 😉
Vanity like yours amuses me. Such arrogance. It wouldn’t even tickle the bacteria on this planet if another KT type asteroid hit the Earth. It would be the more vulnerable species like us who would be wiped out.

Do you know what saved the mammals and birds when the KT event occurred? Ferns. Hardy ferns that grew in harsh conditions and gave the mammals and the birds, the last living line of the the dinosaurs that still exists today after tens of millions of years, something to eat.
Certainly we need not be wasteful, but limiting the human population by draconian means is not the answer. And there is plenty of food to feed everyone–it’s simply not distributed properly due to humans failing to care for each other as we ought to.
What happens when all the nouveau riche in China and India decide they want two cars in the driveway in the next twenty years?
No, it’s the Muslim world that has the most to gain and the will to do whatever it takes to dominate the planet. It wasn’t the Chinese that flew airplanes into buildings on American soil. Anyone who cannot see the real threat here is the one burying his head in the sand (not that you are, just saying).
Yeah, it would be terrible if the Muslims did to the Christians what the Christians have done to everyone else for the last thousnd years.
 
We know that species go extinct all the time. So, I was thinking, if we humans are subject to the “ordinary laws of nature” (using the term just for our purposes), could it be that we will be on the edge of extinction ourselves before Christ returns, and that he will hold off until that happens, or do you think we could going on and on as we are indefinitely?
If Christ returns in the sense that you imply then i think his return will be at a time when no more good can be harvested from the world. In other words, Christ will return at the end of the spiritual harvest. Its quite possible that the end of this harvest will have a biological dimension to it or some kind of physical sign. For example, nobody will get pregnant anymore (like the movie “Children of men”), or our genetic structure will not produce “people” anymore, but instead will produce soulless empty cadavers (dead babies) or some other kind of organism instead.

This is all just speculation on my part. I am embarrassingly not good when it comes to strictly theological interpretation and knowledge, thus if i was you i would read my words with caution.
 
So a human life is only valuable when they are not a burden?
Sentiment has nothing to do with Evolutionary Theory.

If you want my socio-political opinion, I don’t want to live in a Darwinian World, that’s why I’m a liberal socialist. If I wanted to live in a world where might is right, where those who can’t make it on their own die, I’d have voted for a right wing political party who promote that kind of philosophy.
 
Do you wish to believe that human life is only valuable when you say it is? When it is not a burden to you.
I wish for you to direct your pompous, psudeo-pious and hypocritical drivel to someone who might actually entertain it.

Whether I think life is a burden or not is irrelevant and has nothing to do with this, and your weak willed attempts to goad me are not going to work.
 
We know that species go extinct all the time. So, I was thinking, if we humans are subject to the “ordinary laws of nature” (using the term just for our purposes), could it be that we will be on the edge of extinction ourselves before Christ returns, and that he will hold off until that happens
I think we are under God’s providence and that the Second Coming will happen when God decides it is time. Yes, from a completely naturalistic point of view, human beings will likely become extinct. But I have full faith that this will not happen before God wills it.
I was wondering because the more we advance in medicine the more we seem to be producing children with disorders such as autism (not to single out autistics, but just as an example).
I’m not sure that, as a species, we are producing more children with disorders. Perhaps we are simply enabling more of them to live. Our medical ability and our economic prosperity has skyrocketed during the past 200 or more years ago and this gives us a different set of circumstances. Children who would have died in earlier times now survive, and we have the means to support them, even if they can not support themselves. And our understanding of disorders is vastly improved. For example, children with autism might have formerly been classified under a vague general category such as “feeble-minded” or “idiot” or “mentally retarded.”
We’ve nearly been wiped out more than once by natural catastrophes and diseases.
I know that some species have encountered evolutionary bottlenecks (cheetahs, for instance) where most of the individuals are killed, leaving only a relative few to carry on. Such bottlenecks greatly reduce the genetic diversity in a species. But I am not aware of any such bottlenecks for humans. Would you be willing to provide some examples?
 
I wish for you to direct your pompous, psudeo-pious and hypocritical drivel to someone who might actually entertain it.

Whether I think life is a burden or not is irrelevant and has nothing to do with this, and your weak willed attempts to goad me are not going to work.
There is nothing wrong with my question. Your reaction and your unwillingness to answer the question directly, tells us much more about your opinion and your agenda here than you are willing to explain or admit. But hay, none of us are perfect; except you maybe:rolleyes:.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top