Detroit Catholic Leaders Urge Gay Marriage Supporters to Skip Communion

[CarolNoel]

I hope and pray they listen and obey!

 

[Lucky7]

Best quote:

"For a Catholic to receive holy Communion and still deny the revelation Christ entrusted to the church is to try to say two contradictory things at once: ‘I believe the church offers the saving truth of Jesus, and I reject what the church teaches.’ In effect, they would contradict themselves.

Yes, it boggles my mind when they say that the Catholic Church is the One, True Church…except that it’s wrong when it comes to x, y and z.

Okay then.

 

[Lucky7]

FYI,

Dr. Peters addressed the comments made by Fr. Reese.

canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/a-couple-notes-on-todays-dfp-article-on-holy-communion-and-gay-activists-esp-in-re-fr-reese/

What concerns me, and what I spend most of my time defending in this matter, is the basic point that Church law requires, upon the demonstration of certain kinds of facts, that canonico-sacramental consequences follow.

You’re not the only one who is concerned and defending, Dr. Peters. You’re not the only one. Keep up the good fight. The Church (laity, clergy and leaders) need to continue to hear from you. I’m hoping you’ve got the Pope’s ears.

 

[WingsOfEagles]

Reading the comments below the article indicates to me that there are a lot of non-Catholics or at least, uninformed ones commenting. They don’t seem to understand that in a Catholic Church, not everyone is supposed to receive, just those in a state of grace. You can’t be pro-choice or pro-gay marriage and be in a state of grace. You do yourself more harm to receive.

 

[quiet52]

I think the following opinion piece from LifeSiteNews is a good complement to this thread’s lead article.

Opinion: Why we are losing the gay ‘marriage’ debate (and how we can start winning)
lifesitenews.com/news/why-we-will-lose-the-gay-marriage-debate

Personally I am glad to see that some bishops are speaking up (a little) about their objections to dissident Catholic politicians receiving Holy Communion. But what I would like our bishops to do is to help train their priests and deacons to teach Catholics in the pews about these topics, and to rally Catholics to speak up in great numbers. In fact, it would probably be a more positive act on the bishops’ parts to REQUIRE their clergy to preach against homosexual unions, than to merely complain about dissident politicians.

 

[CaptFun]

Perhaps the most well known “Catholic Gay Marriage Supporter” of all, the man whose declaration of being in favor of such predated President Obama’s “evolving” by at least a week … Vice President Joe Biden … will soon be IN Detroit on April, 20.

mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/03/vice_president_joe_biden_to_ke.html

Per this advisory, it will be interesting to see what will happen.

The VP is a communion taking guy. At the Vatican, at St. Patrick’s Cathedral with Cardinal Dolan saying the mass … to the chagrin of some who object that publicly pro-choice (unborn babies may be killed) advocates should not be allowed to take what would be sacrilegious communions (without repentance and absolution first) by those dispensing the Eucharist.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/18/biden-pope-francis-installation-communion_n_2903342.html

March 19 – The White House has confirmed that Biden and Pelosi received communion during the papal Mass.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQG3F4B9T13HMczgfqTwnoxMRGAImvDoSHR3wsMcMhTAQm-EkdN

washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/mar/19/despite-abortion-views-biden-pelosi-receive-commun/print/ <(Biden, Pelosi receive communion at Vatican)

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=17441

Biden received Communion during the (Palm) Sunday Mass, although apparently not directly from Cardinal Dolan.

“Gay Marriage” ***as the Eucharist prohibition ***is a rather new story. And a new controversy.

Another Biden “choice” is coming. I’ll be watching. Bet I can predict what will happen.

April 20 in history is (among other things) known for being Hitler’s Birthday. It isn’t celebrated much by anyone. But those who might celebrate such might well consider
a sacrilegious communion as a proper tribute.

Kudos to the “Detroit Catholic Leaders” for their stand (and also their counsel to those who might not even know they are sinning in the first place, let alone the second - in a sacrilegious communion).

 

[MarcoPolo]

*A Catholic who receives Communion while rejecting the teaching authority of the Church is engaged in an act of hypocrisy, the archbishop said. “This sort of behavior would result in publicly renouncing one’s integrity and logically bring shame for a double-dealing that is not unlike perjury."*Story at Catholic Culture

 

[Elizium23]

Excellent news! Is he going to enforce it?

 

[MaryT777]

Excellent news! Is he going to enforce it?

I am hopeful this will be enforced…

 

[Elizabeth502]

I believe this is the third thread that has been opened on the exact same story. People, please check to see if there’s an existing thread first.

In fact, OP, why did you open two out of the 3 threads, on the same topic?

(The first was opened by mdgspencer and has the most replies.)

 

[pnewton]

I believe this is the third thread that has been opened on the exact same story. People, please check to see if there’s an existing thread first.

In fact, OP, why did you open two out of the 3 threads, on the same topic?

(The first was opened by mdgspencer and has the most replies.)

Here is the first one:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=773983

 

[pnewton]

It sounds good, but it is nothing new. We have long had pro-abortion politicians that continue to think they should receive communion and they continue to receive it, or perhaps I should say take it.

 

[Lucky7]

It sounds good, but it is nothing new. We have long had pro-abortion politicians that continue to think they should receive communion and they continue to receive it, or perhaps I should say take it.

Awww, don’t burst my bubble…lol. I see what you are saying though. There is a lot of talk about telling (“urging”) politicians to refrain, but it never goes anywhere because they DON"T LISTEN.

Let’s hope other Extraordinary Ministers take a stand and refuse communion becuase apparently canon law requires the lay person to follow canon law even if it doesn’t require a bishop to follow it (I read that in another article). That would make them truly “extraordinary”.

 

[bellasbane]

Has anyone stopped to consider that the problem is not with the 400+ Bishops of the United States who embrace a pastoral approach in order to win hearts and minds, but maybe with the 30 who would use canon law to strong-arm compliance?

I know its hard for many on this forum to accept, but most good, faithful Roman Catholics reject the canonical approach, because they see it as at odds with the way of the Gospel. The law is there to guide our leaders, but they are not bound by it. Each Bishop has the authority to interpret how the law will be applied on a case-by-case basis and no Bishop (let alone the laity) has the authority to overrule that judgement.

The one clear break with the past heralded by Vatican II was the end of the canonical approach and the embrace of the pastoral approach, which does not seek to enforce behavior through punishment, but to convince hearts and minds. This is the plan for the Church going forward that came out of the council. Catholics who embrace and support this paradigm are good and faithful members of the Church.

As Cardinal Bergoglio, our Pope Francis wrote:

“If God, in his creation, ran the risk of making us free, who am I to butt in?”

“We condemn the spiritual harassment that happens when a minister imposes directives, behaviors, requirements in such a way that deprive the other of freedom,”

ncronline.org/news/art-media/book-co-written-argentine-rabbi-sheds-light-francis-views

In responding to the issue of withholding communion in particular, Cardinal Wuerl not only makes an eloquent case for why this type of harassment is inappropriate, but explains how the polarization our culture has flowed into the Church - leading many to sin against the truth.

Wuerl: Why I Won’t Deny Pelosi Communion

As family fights go, I ask him, is this one more intense now than at any time in the last oh, 45 years?

He thinks it is: "There’s always been a certain amount of that, but the polarization in our culture seems to flow into our Church. It’s the society in which we live – it’s so easy to be anonymous. We have websites, YouTube and You Face’’ – Facebook, I think he means – "so people can unburden themselves.’’

…

He’s beyond sorry to see Communion wielded as a weapon: "That’s the new way now to make your point. We never – the Church just didn’t use Communion this way. It wasn’t a part of the way we do things, and it wasn’t a way we convinced Catholic politicians to appropriate the faith and live it and apply it; the challenge has always been to convince people.’’ Whereas sanctioning them, in his view, has the opposite effect.

For bishops, "there are two different approaches’’ to bring Catholic politicians in line with Church teaching. "One is the pastoral, teaching mode, and the other is the canonical approach’’ – the legal approach, in other words. He doesn’t think it’s a very close call: "I have yet to see where the canonical approach has changed anyone’s heart.’’

…

Then the famously mild Wuerl goes all fire and brimstone on me – in his smiling, bookish way: "In his circles of Hell, Dante places the people with sins of passion at the very brim – barely burned. But at the core are those who sinned against the truth.’’

And circling back to where we began, he says he sees a lot of sinning against the truth in our squabbling over who is and is not fit to call himself a Catholic. Yet in the very long run, he remains optimistic, both as a Catholic and as an American: "One of the best parts of our nation is if we’re left to struggle with an issue long enough, we’ll get it right. The truth wins; you just have to wait a long time, and that’s why the Catholic Church feels so comfortable preaching and teaching, preaching and teaching, preaching and teaching…We’re in it for the long haul.’’

politicsdaily.com/2009/05/06/archbishop-wuerl-why-i-won-t-deny-pelosi-communion/

I am just a middle of the road Catholic who would like to see all the faithful come together and focus on unity where we find common ground, instead focusing on our differences and subjecting the Body of Christ to an unholy tug-of-war that will certainly rip it apart.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I am hopeful this will be enforced…

And how would you suggest this be “enforced?” Presumably by “enforced” you mean something other than voluntary compliance. Ushers in the aisle asking people about their belief when they got up for Communion? People being quizzed at the door into church? And why stop with gay marriage? Should we also be screening potential communicants about, say, birth control? Actually, since the use of artificial birth control involves not only belief in something contrary to church teaching but personal behavior as well, it would seem more important to “enforce” denying Communion to such people over believers in gay marriage.

And of course before “enforcing” a no-Communion rule for ordinary “pew Catholics” who may be believers in gay marriage, the Church needs to have a consistent and “enforced” position on denying Communion to prominent, public figures who are proponents and supporters of abortion such as Pelosi, Biden, et al.

 

[fix]

Has anyone stopped to consider that the problem is not with the 400+ Bishops of the United States who embrace a pastoral approach in order to win hearts and minds, but maybe with the 30 who would use canon law to strong-arm compliance?

I know its hard for many on this forum to accept, but most good, faithful Roman Catholics reject the canonical approach, because they see it as at odds with the way of the Gospel. The law is there to guide our leaders, but they are not bound by it. Each Bishop has the authority to interpret how the law will be applied on a case-by-case basis and no Bishop (let alone the laity) has the authority to overrule that judgement.

The one clear break with the past heralded by Vatican II was the end of the canonical approach and the embrace of the pastoral approach, which does not seek to enforce behavior through punishment, but to convince hearts and minds. This is the plan for the Church going forward that came out of the council. Catholics who embrace and support this paradigm are good and faithful members of the Church.

As Cardinal Bergoglio, our Pope Francis wrote:

“If God, in his creation, ran the risk of making us free, who am I to butt in?”

“We condemn the spiritual harassment that happens when a minister imposes directives, behaviors, requirements in such a way that deprive the other of freedom,”

ncronline.org/news/art-media/book-co-written-argentine-rabbi-sheds-light-francis-views

In responding to the issue of withholding communion in particular, Cardinal Wuerl not only makes an eloquent case for why this type of harassment is inappropriate, but explains how the polarization our culture has flowed into the Church - leading many to sin against the truth.

Wuerl: Why I Won’t Deny Pelosi Communion

As family fights go, I ask him, is this one more intense now than at any time in the last oh, 45 years?

He thinks it is: "There’s always been a certain amount of that, but the polarization in our culture seems to flow into our Church. It’s the society in which we live – it’s so easy to be anonymous. We have websites, YouTube and You Face’’ – Facebook, I think he means – "so people can unburden themselves.’’

…

He’s beyond sorry to see Communion wielded as a weapon: "That’s the new way now to make your point. We never – the Church just didn’t use Communion this way. It wasn’t a part of the way we do things, and it wasn’t a way we convinced Catholic politicians to appropriate the faith and live it and apply it; the challenge has always been to convince people.’’ Whereas sanctioning them, in his view, has the opposite effect.

For bishops, "there are two different approaches’’ to bring Catholic politicians in line with Church teaching. "One is the pastoral, teaching mode, and the other is the canonical approach’’ – the legal approach, in other words. He doesn’t think it’s a very close call: "I have yet to see where the canonical approach has changed anyone’s heart.’’

…

Then the famously mild Wuerl goes all fire and brimstone on me – in his smiling, bookish way: "In his circles of Hell, Dante places the people with sins of passion at the very brim – barely burned. But at the core are those who sinned against the truth.’’

And circling back to where we began, he says he sees a lot of sinning against the truth in our squabbling over who is and is not fit to call himself a Catholic. Yet in the very long run, he remains optimistic, both as a Catholic and as an American: "One of the best parts of our nation is if we’re left to struggle with an issue long enough, we’ll get it right. The truth wins; you just have to wait a long time, and that’s why the Catholic Church feels so comfortable preaching and teaching, preaching and teaching, preaching and teaching…We’re in it for the long haul.’’

politicsdaily.com/2009/05/06/archbishop-wuerl-why-i-won-t-deny-pelosi-communion/

I am just a middle of the road Catholic who would like to see all the faithful come together and focus on unity where we find common ground, instead focusing on our differences and subjecting the Body of Christ to an unholy tug-of-war that will certainly rip it apart.

For decades we have had what some mistakenly call the “pastoral” approach. The result is what we have today. Scandal and division. The solution is not more faux pastoralness.

Being pastoral in no way means denying the truth. Withholding communion is not a punishment. It is medicinal and it protects the Eucharist and other Catholics.

What is really divisive and mean is to pretend anything goes under the guise of tolerance.

 

[Brendan]

Excellent news! Is he going to enforce it?

What the Archbishop is saying is that the people should not present themselves for Holy Communion. Which is distinct from a denial of Holy Communion.

So this is more of a call that support for same sex ‘marriage’ would bring the condemnation mentioned in 1 Cor 11: 25-29 and therefore should be part of the personal discernment St. Paul mentioned in ver 31

 

[StudentMI]

I’m happy to be in Archbishop Vigneron’s Archdiocese. The liberalism in the area is distressing, and it’s encouraging to see him making statements like this. God bless him.

 

[fix]

What the Archbishop is saying is that the people should not present themselves for Holy Communion. Which is distinct from a denial of Holy Communion.

So this is more of a call that support for same sex ‘marriage’ would bring the condemnation mentioned in 1 Cor 11: 25-29 and therefore should be part of the personal discernment St. Paul mentioned in ver 31

Yes, and the good bishop is being pastoral to his flock and protecting all involved.

 

[Brendan]

Yes, and the good bishop is being pastoral to his flock and protecting all involved.

That was one thing I really admired about the statement ( and +Vigneron in general). He states the truth in a way that is not attacking. He simply states the Truth and does so with deep theological insight.

In many ways, he is a LOT like +Benedict, very, very deep theologically, but with a huge heart.