Detroit files for Bankruptcy

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Here’s the fuller quote:*“The auto industry supports one in eight Ohio jobs. It’s a source of pride to this state. It’s a source of pride for generations of workers. I refused to walk away from those workers. I refused to walk away from those jobs.** I wasn’t going to let Detroit go bankrupt**, or Toledo go bankrupt, or Lordstown go bankrupt. I bet on American workers. I bet on American manufacturing. And I’d do it again, because that bet always pays off.” (Barack Obama, Oct. 2012, praising his own decision to bailout auto industry unions)*http://www.animated-smileys.com/smileys/shocked/animated-smileys-shocked-040.gif
 
Does Detroit ever elect anything but Democrat?

Incompetence has become entrenched in Detroit. Likely, it is not untypical in that regard, but just the first to have to admit it.

I am predicting a Democratic win in the next election cycle. Nothing has changed.
 
I lived in Detroit - not the fake Metro Detroit - for most of my life. NOBODY in the Detroit City Council kept track of tax revenues, the number of stores closing, the number of kids in schools? I had to pay a City of Detroit tax. Once I moved to a suburb and did my first year tax, I asked my tax preparer: “Where’s the City tax?” There wasn’t one.

And during the 1970s, downtown Detroit had streets filled with people, side streets with small shops and stores. I took the bus to college and each year, one or two stores closed along my route. Each year. Foot traffic decreased downtown. The wonderful J.L. Hudson’s building was demolished. Most of those small stores closed. It hurt to see a neighborhood Community Recreation Center torn down. Obviously, the community didn’t need a place like that.

And yeah, those greedy, greedy workers and their pensions. Their pensions had to be underfunded…

Peace,
Ed
ED,
I said NOTHING about greedy workers…I did allude to greedy UNIONS and greedy POLITICIANS.
 
And yeah, those greedy, greedy workers and their pensions. Their pensions had to be underfunded…
That’s what happens when people overestimate the amount of compounding interest rates. It was normal to estimate 5-6% but thanks to the stubborn Fed policy of keeping interest rates at 0% and now longer term asset purchases, there were bound to be painful consequences somewhere.
 
ED,
I said NOTHING about greedy workers…I did allude to greedy UNIONS and greedy POLITICIANS.
Union leaders and politicians have time on their side. Signing on to lucrative bonuses for their due-paying and tax-paying members makes them popular while in office, and when the bottom falls out, chances are they won’t even hear about it on the Bernuda beaches from whence they spend their golden years.

As long as there are taxpayers shoveling money into the bottomless pit of government coffers, it is all good. When all that can afford to leave move to the burbs, it turns out that even government coffers are not unlimited.

It can all be deferred still, maybe, to the state or federal levels, but then again the feds have been running trillion dollar deficits since the last year of Bush.

There is a rather macabre, Mask of the Red Death scenario being played out here, as the people who dance leisurely into retirement with the security of government and union pensions, come face to face with the hard, relentless face of reality once more, unmasked.
 
I read an interesting take on this situation a while back. Essentially it said that the collapse (in relative terms) of US heavy industry was inevitable. During World War II we expanded to meet the demands of the was. After the war we expanded because of the needs for reconstruction and the fact that we were the only large economy whose infrastructure had not been severely damaged.
For about two decades we were the undisputed giant if industry, but others were getting back on their feet. By the late 1960s Germany, Japan, Great Britain, etc. were beginning to reclaim a share of the market, and the trend continued.
Detroit got hit the hardest because it, like Gary, Indiana, was largely a creation of big industry with a virtual monopoly. Eliminate that monopoly, add corruption and management based on the good old days and you have a recipe for disaster.

John
 
I read an interesting take on this situation a while back. Essentially it said that the collapse (in relative terms) of US heavy industry was inevitable. During World War II we expanded to meet the demands of the was. After the war we expanded because of the needs for reconstruction and the fact that we were the only large economy whose infrastructure had not been severely damaged.
For about two decades we were the undisputed giant if industry, but others were getting back on their feet. By the late 1960s Germany, Japan, Great Britain, etc. were beginning to reclaim a share of the market, and the trend continued.
Detroit got hit the hardest because it, like Gary, Indiana, was largely a creation of big industry with a virtual monopoly. Eliminate that monopoly, add corruption and management based on the good old days and you have a recipe for disaster.

John
This makes sense.
 
ED,
I said NOTHING about greedy workers…I did allude to greedy UNIONS and greedy POLITICIANS.
My brother in law worked for GM. His ideas about the union goes back to 1950s. “In da union, der is strength.” “Less work, more pay.” “profit sharing.” Oh, those sacred mantras. The ‘regular guys’ like him weren’t living in mansions like the ‘big guys.’ I looked at the magazine he got from the union every month. Those fat cats running the Big 3 ranked just above Satan.

Japanese cars were the devil. How they ended up in this country and who bought them was a mystery. They were to be hated cuz da union said so. I was on an unfamiliar street and ended up having to turn around in a union parking lot with a big sign: “No foreign cars are allowed to park here.” Gosh, maybe people were noticing the shoddy workmanship of American cars and decided to buy cars that would cost less in maintenance.

Or how about this? On the back of a truck: “Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign.”

And everybody who had more than 2 dollars in his pocket started making everything in China! It was all an accident! Really! Ignore the man behind the curtain! It’s costing American jobs? That’s a figment of your imagination!!!

GM loved Mexico. They had no EPA. So they could just dump drums filled with whatever onto the ground. “Money! How I love ya. How I love ya. My dear old money!” with apologies to Al Jolson.

During the Second Great Depression, GM built a new auto plant - in Russia.

Peace,
Ed
 
I read an interesting take on this situation a while back. Essentially it said that the collapse (in relative terms) of US heavy industry was inevitable. During World War II we expanded to meet the demands of the was. After the war we expanded because of the needs for reconstruction and the fact that we were the only large economy whose infrastructure had not been severely damaged.
For about two decades we were the undisputed giant if industry, but others were getting back on their feet. By the late 1960s Germany, Japan, Great Britain, etc. were beginning to reclaim a share of the market, and the trend continued.
Detroit got hit the hardest because it, like Gary, Indiana, was largely a creation of big industry with a virtual monopoly. Eliminate that monopoly, add corruption and management based on the good old days and you have a recipe for disaster.

John
I regret that I must add my hometown; Youngstown, OH to the list. When the Youngstown Sheet and Tube and Republic Steel closed, over 10,000 jobs were lost.

mahoninghistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/remembering-black-monday.html
 
I regret that I must add my hometown; Youngstown, OH to the list. When the Youngstown Sheet and Tube and Republic Steel closed, over 10,000 jobs were lost.

mahoninghistory.blogspot.com/2007/09/remembering-black-monday.html
Fort Wayne, Indiana was a city of 180,000 people when International Harvester pulled 10,000 jobs in 1984. The southeast part of the city closest to the old Harvester plant has never recovered, but the city as a whole rebounded quite well.

What do you think made the difference?

Hint, after record floods in 1982, the city got the nickname, “The city that saved itself.” It was not the federal government, but thousands of volunteer citizens who built sandbag dikes and cleaned up the mess in short order. My niece was a nursing student at Xavier University who volunteered in New Orleans after Katrina. Her experience was not the same as for her parents in the flood here.
 
For perspective, the country of Ireland endured a long decline in the 19th century similar to Detroit’s current situation. It took 150 years for Ireland to regain its lost population.

The paternalistic British government which caused much of the Irish problem always claimed to have the best of intentions.

Lesson not learned so far in Detroit.
 
For perspective, the country of Ireland endured a long decline in the 19th century similar to Detroit’s current situation. It took 150 years for Ireland to regain its lost population.

The paternalistic British government which caused much of the Irish problem always claimed to have the best of intentions.

Lesson not learned so far in Detroit.
Big government most always claims that. :rolleyes:
 
I read an interesting take on this situation a while back. Essentially it said that the collapse (in relative terms) of US heavy industry was inevitable. During World War II we expanded to meet the demands of the was. After the war we expanded because of the needs for reconstruction and the fact that we were the only large economy whose infrastructure had not been severely damaged.
For about two decades we were the undisputed giant if industry, but others were getting back on their feet. By the late 1960s Germany, Japan, Great Britain, etc. were beginning to reclaim a share of the market, and the trend continued.
Detroit got hit the hardest because it, like Gary, Indiana, was largely a creation of big industry with a virtual monopoly. Eliminate that monopoly, add corruption and management based on the good old days and you have a recipe for disaster.

John
I agree with this in part, but not entirely.

CAT and DEERE are still going strong, though CAT’s stock is likely to drop before long because of lower commodity prices leading to less purchase of mining equipment. Both manufacture in the U.S. and abroad as well.

Foreign car companies appear to be doing well in the Southern U.S.

But when you add all of the ingredients you mentioned and add others:
  • A government that is in many ways incompetent and in many ways oppressive; one that, for example, refuses to allow manufacturers to take advantage of the natural advantages the U.S. has (like abundant, cheap energy, shorter transportation lines)
    -Utter social failure evidenced by failing education, intentional block busting, encouragement of welfare generations, widespread crime, discouragement of small-scale employment, encouragement of societal animosities.
When you add all of that together, it sort of reminds a person of “catastrophic organ failure” in a dying person. It’s not so much that one organ is failing, but that there is a cascade of failures in multiple organs, each worsening the condition of the others.

It’s possible, certainly, for physicians to bring back a person in multiple organ failure, but the odds aren’t at all good, precisely because there are just too many things to correct and failure to correct even one is a failure to correct all.

One is tempted to think of Detroit in the same way. It isn’t just one thing, it’s a cascade failure, and correcting one thing won’t save the whole. One is sometimes tempted to think all it has now is a very good location for a city.

I live a long way from Detroit and have only been there a few times, but nearer and more familiar to me is the City of St. Louis. It has many of the same multi-organic failures. But it’s not without hope. Weirdly, it is obvious the city decided long ago (probably back in the 1940s) to depopulate itself, raze huge segments of populated areas and turn them into commercial areas and gentrified segments. St. Louis never stops that process, it seems. But it has, to a large extent, simply driven the blight and hopelessness north into older suburbs. It also has the advantage of a very big river between it and the very worst of it. (East St. Louis). On the other hand, the metro area outside the City is larger and far more prosperous and populous than the City itself. I understand the Detroit metro area is not simply one huge disaster. There are prosperous suburbs to which most of the population has fled.

Truly, some of the older cities really do seem to be not much more than a very good geographical location upon which to someday build a city.
 
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