W
Walt_Oliver
Guest
Final warning: If you folks can’t disagree without taking potshots at each other, I will be forced to close the thread and suspend a few posters. In other words, be nice…or else!!
Walt
Walt
Detroit's pacifist bishop resigns-Pope to announce the move today
- Status
R
revejj2000
Guest
From the EWTN NewsLink:
*2-February-2006 – Vatican Information Service *ewtn.com/images/printer.gif
PONTIFICAL ACTS
VATICAN CITY, FEB 2, 2006 (VIS) - The Holy Father:
*2-February-2006 – Vatican Information Service *ewtn.com/images/printer.gif
PONTIFICAL ACTS
VATICAN CITY, FEB 2, 2006 (VIS) - The Holy Father:
- Accepted the resignation from the office of auxiliary of the archdiocese of Detroit, U.S.A., presented by Thomas J. Gumbleton, upon having reached the age limit.
C
Chris_in_Mich
Guest
H
Hesychios
Guest
Could this bishop have been that bad that he deserves all of the backbiting I read here? 
I have never had a bishop I wasn’t proud of, this whole thread comes as a shock.
+T+
Michael
I have never had a bishop I wasn’t proud of, this whole thread comes as a shock.
+T+
Michael
G
grotto
Guest
Consider yourself spared!
F
frommi
Guest
And I would disagree…anyone who hasn’t had a chance to be proud of a bishop like gumbleton, has not had a chance to see what the Catholic faith could be in its fullness.
M
msproule
Guest
“Fullness” is taking it a bit too far. I will agree that he has his good traits…but vehemently disagree that he embodies the Catholic ideal.
:ehh:
F
frommi
Guest
msproule said:
If more bishops eschewed the trappings of power that seem to pervade their judgment…then yeah, I think we’d have an ideal church.
M
msproule
Guest
That would certainly bring us closer :yup: …but not all the way. :nope:
F
frommi
Guest
Perhaps not…one gets the feeling that the church on Earth will never quite be a finished product.
E
EtienneGilson
Guest
Shown wrong where? The pope did not mention contraception either in the encyclical or at World Youth Day. The most you could come up with is that he rejects the use of condoms as a method of preventing the spread of Aids. The media also noted it was the first time he even mentioned contraception since becoming pope.Having been shown to be incorrect on this claim and guess, I am left wondering what other “facts” or “guesses” that you present will turn out to be baseless conjecture? …
Show me where this pope has spoken as pope about contraception being inherently disordered even within marriage and then you can claim that the pope isn’t one of those flamming liberals like Bishop Gumbleton if you insist on the “entire gospel” as criteria.
I am glad Felra you are here to save the church from those heretical liberal bishops.
A
aimee
Guest
Bishop Gumbleton is associated with pax christi which is a disinting organization…that in itself is problematic.
I believe Pope Benedict xvi has only one encylical so far…no doubt more will follow.
All you need to know is in the catechism of the Catholic church…you might want to pick on up they are not that expensive.
I believe Pope Benedict xvi has only one encylical so far…no doubt more will follow.
All you need to know is in the catechism of the Catholic church…you might want to pick on up they are not that expensive.
E
EtienneGilson
Guest
Gee, all I need is the CCC? I guess all that post-grad work in philosophy and theology was useless. Maybe we should just get rid of the bishops and replace every Cathedral with a Catechism and every priest with a Bible…oh wait? that has happened before.
I wish I could still see the world in black and white like a kid again but my new television has so many beautiful colours.
I think it is in particular bad taste and displays an unchristian spirit when people go around celebrating the retirement of a bishop for negative reasons and to further an agenda. It reminds me of some of the fundamentalists who sang for joy over the death of the pope (to them the antichrist).
If people cannot see any good in that man than I think it is hard to even call them Christian. True Christians see good and praise what is good in all creation. I recall the past pope even kissing a Qu’ran in praise of the partial truth it contains yet people here would rather burn Bishop Gumbleton in effige.
I wish I could still see the world in black and white like a kid again but my new television has so many beautiful colours.
I think it is in particular bad taste and displays an unchristian spirit when people go around celebrating the retirement of a bishop for negative reasons and to further an agenda. It reminds me of some of the fundamentalists who sang for joy over the death of the pope (to them the antichrist).
If people cannot see any good in that man than I think it is hard to even call them Christian. True Christians see good and praise what is good in all creation. I recall the past pope even kissing a Qu’ran in praise of the partial truth it contains yet people here would rather burn Bishop Gumbleton in effige.
D
Detroit_Sue
Guest
You are equating my happiness at seeing Gumbleton retire to a fundamentalist cheering Pope JPII’s death? Now that’s a reach.
Rather sweeping portrayal, and hugely inaccurate.
Gumbleton Consecrated the Eucharist. That is always a good thing. There. I said something good about him. That, and the fact that he is retired.
T
Toni
Guest
Detroit Sue:
Detroit Sue:
I second that. You can not even compare the two issues.You are equating my happiness at seeing Gumbleton retire to a fundamentalist cheering Pope JPII’s death? Now that’s a reach.
Detroit Sue:
Two good things you are right Sue.Rather sweeping portrayal, and hugely inaccurate.
Gumbleton Consecrated the Eucharist. That is always a good thing. There. I said something good about him. That, and the fact that he is retired.
M
MrS
Guest
Detroit Sue:
Now that he is retired, and in the winter of his discontent, perhaps he will start recanting some of the weirdness (is that a word?) he professed. Or, now that he is not restricted to be a vocal local pastor, he may become more visible (ouch!)
I think I know the answer… but we can always pray.
I think what good he can do is the question.You are equating my happiness at seeing Gumbleton retire to a fundamentalist cheering Pope JPII’s death? Now that’s a reach.
… come on Sue… ya gotta have a degree to make those comments.
Rather sweeping portrayal, and hugely inaccurate.
Gumbleton Consecrated the Eucharist. That is always a good thing. There. I said something good about him. That, and the fact that he is retired.
Now that he is retired, and in the winter of his discontent, perhaps he will start recanting some of the weirdness (is that a word?) he professed. Or, now that he is not restricted to be a vocal local pastor, he may become more visible (ouch!)
I think I know the answer… but we can always pray.
M
msproule
Guest
Ooooh…impressive!
:bowdown:
I know of some dissenting priests and theologians with such credentials. Modernist philosophy and theology are useless to faithful Catholics! In contrast, submission to the Magisterium and the Deposit of Faith are of great use.
Even a poorly-educated fool like myself can see that Pope Benedict XVI is giving us not-so-subtle hints about exercising our true freedom: “Know the Bible”, paraphrasing, of course, “Learn to pray in Latin”, “God is Love”, and here is his (indirect) condemnation of contraception: “There are only absolute, not relative, truths”.
E
ekindermann
Guest
Thanks, msproule, well said!Ooooh…impressive!
:bowdown:
I know of some dissenting priests and theologians with such credentials. Modernist philosophy and theology are useless to faithful Catholics! In contrast, submission to the Magisterium and the Deposit of Faith are of great use.
Even a poorly-educated fool like myself can see that Pope Benedict XVI is giving us not-so-subtle hints about exercising our true freedom: “Know the Bible”, paraphrasing, of course, “Learn to pray in Latin”, “God is Love”, and here is his (indirect) condemnation of contraception: “There are only absolute, not relative, truths”.
and so very true.
F
frommi
Guest
Modernist philosophy is not USELESS to Catholics, and once again your use of “faithful” concerns me, at no point did I see anyone in this thread say they weren’t “faithful”.Ooooh…impressive!
:bowdown:
I know of some dissenting priests and theologians with such credentials. Modernist philosophy and theology are useless to faithful Catholics! In contrast, submission to the Magisterium and the Deposit of Faith are of great use.
Even a poorly-educated fool like myself can see that Pope Benedict XVI is giving us not-so-subtle hints about exercising our true freedom: “Know the Bible”, paraphrasing, of course, “Learn to pray in Latin”, “God is Love”, and here is his (indirect) condemnation of contraception: “There are only absolute, not relative, truths”.
It cracks me up that people with no theological credentials can blast someone who has those credentials without even knowing what the credentials are.
And to paraphrase from someone I respect…
A lot of humility and a lot of caution are necessary for us who believe in absolute truth. To say that we know that something is absolutely true is not to say that we have a complete and exhaustive understanding of that truth. It is crucial to hearing and spreading the gospel that we do not fall into absolutism: thinking that we’ve exhausted and “tamed” truth and stashed it safely in our back pocket. Such an attitude easily leads to a kind of intellectual fascism where we equate our particular perspective on a truth with the truth itself and try to force others to believe in our supposedly correct under-standing. Those who are absolutists run a great risk of denying themselves the deepening understanding of truth necessary for faithfulness in life’s ever-changing situations
E
EtienneGilson
Guest
Probably the most beautiful thing I have seen written on this website (other than the occasional Chesterton quote).
I wish I had my copy of Copleston’s History of Medeival Philosophy with me (or Dom David Knowles’ Evolution of Medieval Thought) because those two scholars (both clergy as well) recount at length the opposition of the conservative theologians to the innovations of the scholastics. But those books are in Canada and I am currently in France (which explains part of my problem…the other part being this daarn Belgian keyboard with the letters miraculously all in different places from what I am used to).
Even my signature is a quote from Copleston’s section on Aquinas…that modernist innovator.
I will pray for Bishop Gumbleton that he will be a force of peace and a missionary for Christ as he enters this exciting time.
- Status