Detroit's Tridentine Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter CathMass
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Please keep this forum alive and ongoing so anyone from the Cluster especially St. Josaphat or any other person may post here in this forum

If Fr. Borkowski wants to post in here he is most welcome to do so.đź‘Ť
 
This is a summary of Holy Week and Easter for the
Tridentine Community in the Detroit Area at St. Josaphat

This Palm Sunday, I am told that there will be a procession with blessing of palms for Palm Sunday. I am unsure about the details and it is a Missa Cantata and will be celebrated by Fr. Wolfgang Seitz.

For Holy Thursday there will be a Solemn Latin Mass according to the Missa Normativa with Tenebrae and participation from Detroit’s Tridentine Community as well as Windsor’s Tridentine Community. This will be at 7:00 PM

Good Friday will have a liturgy at St. Josaphat at 5:00 PM This is not a Tridentine sponsored liturgy so I don’t believe it will be in Latin but things may change.

Holy Saturday will not not involve the Tridentine Community and the Easter Vigil Mass will be at St. Joseph instead.

Easter Sunday will be celebrated by the Most Reverend Bishop Earl Boyea at the usual 9:30 Tridentine Mass

Divine Mercy Sunday
Solemn Tridentine High Mass (Missa Solemnis)
I am not sure of the celebrant but it may be Fr. Kosnac. I hope that all of you will fill the church to capacity and go to confession for “the floodgates of Mercy are opened”.
However I must stress that you all should attend the 3 PM services at the various churches so that the Mercy of God shall be honored. Remember Our Lord said that we should honor Him at 3 PM so on this Mercy Sunday we should do so and rember the plenary indulgence consists of Confession, Communion, and the normal prayers for the Holy Father and a Prayer to the Divine Mercy.

On a practical note there will be no social this Sunday due to picture retakes.

So I hope this gives you a good idea about what to do for Holy Week and please give a good heartfelt thanks to Fr. Borkowski for his dedication to the Tridentine Community as well as the rest of the Cluster.

:blessyou:
 
The celebrant Sudnay – I was told will be Fr.Kosnac.
I have heard that there will be a Solemn Blessing of Palms -priest,deacon, and subdeacon with a Missa Cantata afterwords.

Sorry to nitpick and annoy you - The tenebrae on Holy Thursday will also be NO because it is a serious abuse in the Traditional Rite during the evening before the day. In the Traditional Rite it is supposted to be done in the morning of the day.

I have heard that there will be a social after Mass this Sunday. Picture retakes were last week.

Catholic Mass:
Look in your inbox.
40.png
CathMass:
This is a summary of Holy Week and Easter for the
Tridentine Community in the Detroit Area at St. Josaphat

This Palm Sunday, I am told that there will be a procession with blessing of palms for Palm Sunday. I am unsure about the details and it is a Missa Cantata and will be celebrated by Fr. Wolfgang Seitz.

For Holy Thursday there will be a Solemn Latin Mass according to the Missa Normativa with Tenebrae and participation from Detroit’s Tridentine Community as well as Windsor’s Tridentine Community. This will be at 7:00 PM

Good Friday will have a liturgy at St. Josaphat at 5:00 PM This is not a Tridentine sponsored liturgy so I don’t believe it will be in Latin but things may change.

Holy Saturday will not not involve the Tridentine Community and the Easter Vigil Mass will be at St. Joseph instead.

Easter Sunday will be celebrated by the Most Reverend Bishop Earl Boyea at the usual 9:30 Tridentine Mass

Divine Mercy Sunday
Solemn Tridentine High Mass (Missa Solemnis)
I am not sure of the celebrant but it may be Fr. Kosnac. I hope that all of you will fill the church to capacity and go to confession for “the floodgates of Mercy are opened”.
However I must stress that you all should attend the 3 PM services at the various churches so that the Mercy of God shall be honored. Remember Our Lord said that we should honor Him at 3 PM so on this Mercy Sunday we should do so and rember the plenary indulgence consists of Confession, Communion, and the normal prayers for the Holy Father and a Prayer to the Divine Mercy.

On a practical note there will be no social this Sunday due to picture retakes.

So I hope this gives you a good idea about what to do for Holy Week and please give a good heartfelt thanks to Fr. Borkowski for his dedication to the Tridentine Community as well as the rest of the Cluster.
Click to expand...
 
Well I got your message and I got the private message.
Thanks a lot

Have a blessed St. Joseph’s Day!
 
It was quite a beautiful mass this morning. Longest mass I’ve ever attended, but very beautiful.

Out of curiosity, I’m assuming that most masses have had a Deacon present (the white haired gentleman who sits to the left and puts on the horizontal stole before distributing the eucharist). Since all that is necessary for a High Mass is a deacon and sub-deacon in addition to the priest (and allowing that a male member of the congregation may act as a “straw-deacon” so to speak) what has stopped St. Josaphat from having a High Mass so far? No sub/straw-deacon? Lack of musicians (which hasn’t really been a problem so far)? Politics? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining in the least. I’m just curious. Did I get anything wrong above?

Speaking of which, does anyone want to enlighten me on the difference between a High Mass and a Missa Cantata? I know that the high-mass has priest, deacon and sub-deacon. Any other major differences? I’m looking forward to finding out.

PS-Anyone know if that woman who fell during communion was ok?
 
does anyone want to enlighten me on the difference between a High Mass and a Missa Cantata?
Click to expand...
A Missa Cantata is a low mass which is sung. A high mass is sung but also has the deacon and subdeacon.
 
Yesterday’s Mass was indeed well done. So much depends upon the celebrant, and we have been blessed with some dedicated ones recently.

The rubrics for a Solemn High Mass are very different from, and significantly more complicated than, those of a Missa Cantata. A subdeacon can indeed be a layman, but he is supposed to have at least received tonsure.

There has been no Solemn High Mass so far because the celebrants have not felt up to it. They need(ed) first to become comfortable with a Missa Cantata using incense. One must learn algebra before calculus.

The good news is, our first Solemn High Mass will be celebrated on April 3. The celebrant will be Fr. Ben Kosnac. The deacons will be our own Deacon Richard Bloomfield, and the subdeacon be Deacon Gerald Smigell from Ss. Cyril & Methodius. Go easy on them; the first one will probably be far from perfect.

On Easter Sunday, we will have Bishop Earl Boyea, plus some special musical soloists.

Please try to attend the fundraising brunch after Mass on April 17. Financially so far, the Novus Ordo community has been supporting the Tridentine Mass. It’s time for us to start paying our fair share of the parish overhead. One way we can do that is to hold regular fundraisers, probably mostly brunches. Our compatriots’ regular monthly lunches are one reason St. Josaphat’s has been so well preserved for our use. But the cost of providing the Tridentine Mass exceeds that for the Novus Ordo Mass. Also, let Fr. Borkowski know if you have any ideas for additional fundraising activities. Creative thinking is welcomed!
 
40.png
pm1853:
Out of curiosity, I’m assuming that most masses have had a Deacon present (the white haired gentleman who sits to the left and puts on the horizontal stole before distributing the eucharist). Since all that is necessary for a High Mass is a deacon and sub-deacon in addition to the priest (and allowing that a male member of the congregation may act as a “straw-deacon” so to speak) what has stopped St. Josaphat from having a High Mass so far?
Click to expand...
As Alex has said the first one will probably be far from perfect. The Priest, Deacon and Sub-deacon all need to be on the same page and it will proably take more than a few Masses for that to happen. I don’t think one can fully appreciate the profound beauty of the rubrics until they see the clergy in sync with the rubrics, without hesitations in their movements and other distractions etc.

As for myself. I am hoping that Solemn High Masses will become more than the exception at St. Josaphats, as it is the unabridged form of the Traditional Mass. If the Deacon stays around maybe it is possible… but I am proably hoping for too much as we do not have a full-time traditional parish priest .
40.png
pm1853:
Speaking of which, does anyone want to enlighten me on the difference between a High Mass and a Missa Cantata? I know that the high-mass has priest, deacon and sub-deacon. Any other major differences? I’m looking forward to finding out.
Click to expand...
(1907) Catholic Encyolpedia:
Code: 
"**This high Mass is the norm; it is only in the complete rite with deacon and subdeacon that the ceremonies can be understood.** Thus, the rubrics of the Ordinary of the Mass always suppose that the Mass is high. **Low Mass, said by a priest alone with one server, is a shortened and simplified form** of the same thing. Its ritual can be explained only by a reference to high Mass. For instance, the celebrant goes over to the north side of the altar to read the Gospel, because that is the side to which the deacon goes in procession at high Mass; he turns round always by the right, because at high Mass he should not turn his back to the deacon and so on. A *sung* Mass (*missa Cantata*) is a modern compromise. It is really a low Mass, since **the essence of high Mass is not the music but the deacon and subdeacon.**"
A Solemn High Mass should look like this picture:

latinmassmagazine.com/
 
Indeed for a first Palm Sunday Mass according to the Old Rite, everything went well.

As far as the High Mass is concerned I want to point out that Mr. Sarweh, the organist needs choir members for the High Mass on Divine Mercy Sunday. THIS IS A ONE TIME COMMITMENT!!!
However more are needed in the choir anyway so why not just join. Please see the organist after mass

Also reminder to attend the Holy Thursday Latin Mass at 7 PM this week

:blessyou:
 
**Last reminder that tommorrow Holy Thursday, there will be a Novus Ordo Latin Mass at 7 PM at St. Josaphat. **
**I want to ask that any person who attends this mass if they so wish to please post something about it. **
I am unsure if I will be able to attend so if you would like to post comments you are most welcome to.
 
CathMass said:
**Last reminder that tommorrow Holy Thursday, there will be a Novus Ordo Latin Mass at 7 PM at St. Josaphat. **
**I want to ask that any person who attends this mass if they so wish to please post something about it. **
I am unsure if I will be able to attend so if you would like to post comments you are most welcome to.
Click to expand...

I thought it was nicely done, I greatly prefer the TLM but there was an olive branch extended by Fr. Borkowski for all the communities of the cluster to participate in this mass, I could attend, so I thought it was right that I do so. What really stood out was Fr. Mark’s sermon, and St. Joseph’s choir, they were great.
 
I am hesitant to say anything as I do not want to be uncharitable but… How can I say this… I’m not sure who was playing the trumpet but I hope to never hear it again. I was embarrassed.

I’m not so much criticizing the person playing the trumpet as I’m saying it would have been better suited to a gymnasium or a football game.
 
**The trumpeter is a beautiful Catholic custom!**At my old NO parish we had a group of five trumpeters play after Consecration. We also had a violinist and that opera singer today. Very beautiful!

Oh yes and we need more altar boys! Anyone want to serve please come before/after Mass. All men may apply. During the summer, we won’t have boys coming in from other parishes. Do you know how tough it is to do a good Sung Mass with the “works” with only two altar boys, as today? AlexB,CathMass and I had to carry the whole load today and I hope this doesn’t happen again.

Men and women are also needed for the choir for next week’s Solemn High Mass! Come as your, even with little training will do!
 
The violinist played a beautiful piece but please, no trumpets. As you were a fair distance away, perhaps you didn’t notice the reaction people had to it. I would suggest not using it again as I think it will only drive people away.
 
40.png
marcus29:
The violinist played a beautiful piece but please, no trumpets. As you were a fair distance away, perhaps you didn’t notice the reaction people had to it. I would suggest not using it again as I think it will only drive people away.
Click to expand...
I have no power in this sphere. Was it really that bad? I personally liked it but I like trumpets. I think that he only truly played it badly was during the last hymn when I was walking out in procession.

Perhaps we should only use the trumpet for processions. I would love a Corpus Christi procession around the neighborhood. This would be said on Sunday not on Thursday for Pope Leo XIII allowed this for mission territory and the USA is under 20% Catholic, therefore it is mission territory. Alex it is possible, it is possible all it needs is to be done!
 
40.png
katolik:
**Oh yes and we need more altar boys! Anyone want to serve please come before/after Mass. All men may apply. **

Men and women are also needed for the choir for next week’s Solemn High Mass! Come as your, even with little training will do!
Click to expand...
After giving up all of my forums for lent, this is the first I have heard of Fr. Ben doing the Latin Mass at all. I would love to go next Sunday.

If Altar Boys and Choir members are needed, ask Fr. Ben. He may be able to get some of the 200 (!) Altar Boys from our parish (I’m at SS Cyril and Methodius as well) to volunteer. Also, we have a wonderful adult choir who may be able to help.

(My girls sing in the children’s choir so I have to state that they are wonderful too)
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
After giving up all of my forums for lent, this is the first I have heard of Fr. Ben doing the Latin Mass at all. I would love to go next Sunday.

If Altar Boys and Choir members are needed, ask Fr. Ben. He may be able to get some of the 200 (!) Altar Boys from our parish (I’m at SS Cyril and Methodius as well) to volunteer. Also, we have a wonderful adult choir who may be able to help.

(My girls sing in the children’s choir so I have to state that they are wonderful too)
Click to expand...
We do ask for altar boys from St.Cyril and Methodius’s and we do receive. The problem is that the parents aren’t hasty to drive 30 miles to St.Josaphat’s and Fr.Kosnac doesn’t celebrate each week. The problem is that we need someone who will come each week and be consistent.Also, serving the TLM is not easy and needs practice. I after serving since November,almost each week, and I still need help.
 
The trumpet was fine I had no problem with it.
The decorations were nice and yes we need Altar Boys. Also if you do wish to altar serve please do it with the intent to serve in a reverent and humble manner and not just to be seen by everyone and also with complete sincerity.
Also as far as Divine Mercy Sunday is concerned I want to know if we will do the Chaplet after mass or before or replace the rosary with it instead. Also could it be sung as is done in Poland and in Stockbridge?
 
CathMass:

Will anyone understand when I say/sing, Dla Jego Bolesnej Meki, miej milosierdzia dla nas i calego swiata? ;)That’s the small bead response for the Chapelet. I think we should say the Chaplet in front of the Blessed Sacrament, who is the true Christ not just an image of Him.
 
.Also, serving the TLM is not easy and needs practice. I after serving since November,almost each week, and I still need help.
Click to expand...
How long does it take to learn to serve Latin mass? I recall it was at least a month of after school, back in the day, before they allowed boys to serve. And then only daily mass, a bit longer before graduating to serving Sunday mass or high masses, which are more complex.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top