Detroit's Tridentine Mass

[netmilsmom]

katolik:

We do ask for altar boys from St.Cyril and Methodius’s and we do receive. The problem is that the parents aren’t hasty to drive 30 miles to St.Josaphat’s and Fr.Kosnac doesn’t celebrate each week. The problem is that we need someone who will come each week and be consistent.Also, serving the TLM is not easy and needs practice. I after serving since November,almost each week, and I still need help.

Oh my!
Well, I would volunteer to drive if someone needs it.

 

[katolik]

Kielbasi:

How long does it take to learn to serve Latin mass? I recall it was at least a month of after school, back in the day, before they allowed boys to serve. And then only daily mass, a bit longer before graduating to serving Sunday mass or high masses, which are more complex.

Well we only have Sunday Masses. I’ve learned most of it on my own and practicing before Mass. I have it down okay but there are so many rules to be followed that only the basics are only taught to most altar boys. There actually is a full 500 page textbook on how to properly serve the Mass in all it’s forms from Pontifical to Low Mass.

 

[katolik]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

Oh my!
Well, I would volunteer to drive if someone needs it.

Ask Fr.Kosnac to do that. Call him, he can’t take 10 boys to Mass with him, can he?

Altar boy practice is at 1.30 pm Saturday because the day after we will do a Solemn High Mass,like below.
http://www.unavoce.org/elevat1.JPG

 

[CathMass]

I never said the chaplet had to be in Polish.
As far as praying it well first of all the Blessed Sacrament is in the Tabernacle if its not exposed. Also see what Jesus said:

**"*By means of this image I shall be granting many graces to souls; so let every soul have access to it." (570) ***
***/***QUOTE]

• Divine Mercy in My Soul
  The Diary of St. Faustina

So yes its just an image but keep in mind that He still hears you. By the way Jesus is still in the Tabernacle. Our Lord also said that the soul that will venerates the image will not perish. The Lord said that He wanted the image venerated in the church so it is not wrong to pray before the image. I know veneration is an act of respect towards His image but acknowledging the Mercy of Jesus as depicted with the blood and water in His sacred image shows veneration of God’s Mercy and not just a framed portrait. Jesus said it was not in the paint or the brush but in His grace. When we use the image with the chaplet we invoke grace.
So the chaplet together with the Eucharist either exposed or in repose and the image on the side is giving honor of God’s Mercy as requested in the revelations to St. Faustina
Keep in mind we don’t worship it. :nope:
So basically the Lord Jesus demands not only the worship of the Blessed Sacrament but also the veneration of the image.

 

[katolik]

Well how else do they sing the chaplet in Poland?

CathMass:

I never said the chaplet had to be in Polish.

As far as praying it well first of all the Blessed Sacrament is in the Tabernacle if its not exposed. Also see what Jesus said:

**"*By means of this image I shall be granting many graces to souls; so let every soul have access to it." (570) ***
***/***QUOTE]

• Divine Mercy in My Soul
  The Diary of St. Faustina

So yes its just an image but keep in mind that He still hears you. By the way Jesus is still in the Tabernacle. Our Lord also said that the soul that will venerates the image will not perish. The Lord said that He wanted the image venerated in the church so it is not wrong to pray before the image. I know veneration is an act of respect towards His image but acknowledging the Mercy of Jesus as depicted with the blood and water in His sacred image shows veneration of God’s Mercy and not just a framed portrait. Jesus said it was not in the paint or the brush but in His grace. When we use the image with the chaplet we invoke grace.
So the chaplet together with the Eucharist either exposed or in repose and the image on the side is giving honor of God’s Mercy as requested in the revelations to St. Faustina
Keep in mind we don’t worship it. :nope:
So basically the Lord Jesus demands not only the worship of the Blessed Sacrament but also the veneration of the image.

CathMass:
Come on man! To have a devotion ot the Divine Mercy doesn’t require a picture of the improperly done “Divine Mercy” image. Even Sr.Faustyna said that the Divine Mercy image fails to describe Christ in all the beauty she saw Him in. Why just have a painting when you can have Christ in all of His Splendor in the tabernacle/monstrance? It’s a picture of God or God in all of His Majesty. Which one do you choose?

I never said that it was wrong to pray before the picture! I am no Bibliolater Protestant heretic! If you would see my house, we have 3 Our Lady of Czestochowa ikon,1 “Infant of Prague” statue, I Our Lady of Lichen,Poland picture, I Our Lady of Kalwaria Zebrzydowska picture, 2 pictures of the Divine Mercy image, one picture of Christ crucified, one picture of Christ the King spread throughout the house and that’s not counting the amount of holy cards we have. As you can clearly see that I am no Protestant!

I am just saying that you don’t need to bring in that 10foot high picture from that church you said! We have the Most Blessed Sacrament, what else deserves such great praise?
Also, we already have an image of Christ on the reredos, the altar crucifix,the processional cross, the Sacred Heart side altar, the side altar crucifix,the altar rail crucifix, and many more I’m sure!

This is just like that last time where you tried to get a relic of St.Anne because you couldn’t have St.Anne devotions without it! Yes you can!

 

[solanus]

How old is to old for an altar boy? I am an “ex” altar boy and would have to check with the wife (we have two little girls) to see if it would be ok. Probably would not be able to do it every week, but maybe every other as it is also a bit of a drive for us.

So, let me know if I could help and I will check with the boss.

Thanks

 

[CathMass]

I never said the image was required. However I admit I am and will take the diary literally. I mean if Our Lord says I want the image venerated then by all means we have to have the image in the church and venerated.

***“I want the image to be solemnly blessed on the first Sunday after Easter, and I want it to be venerated publicly so that every soul may know about it. By means of the Image I shall be granting many graces to souls; so let every soul have access to it.” ***

(Diary 341, 570)

- Divine Mercy in my Soul

I knew St. Josaphat had no image so Alex and I talked and I will be providing the image which will be on loan from the Shrine of the Little Flower’ Perpetual Help group. One usher wanted Fr. Borkowski to give us Sweetest Heart’s image. Well he wouldn’t deprive that church of their image and well the image I’m bringing is normally locked up in a closet in the back of the church and sitting in a velvet bag and only comes out once a week on Tuesday. And its not 10 ft tall :nope:
Also I never said honor should be given more to the image than the Blessed Sacrament. However the image is considered a special part of the feast.
For all I know the chaplet may be said in a prison cell with nothing but a wall to stare at.
By the way go on EWTN’s website and they may have a recording of the chaplet sung in English and some Marian Priest said it was based on the Polish tune. If you’re thinking of that new modern chaplet tune well thats not what I’m talking about.

As far as St. Anne’s devotion was concerned, I have done the devotions for 3 years and when I began all I had was a chipped statue of her that I found in a garage sale and an old nearly torn green colored image of her. I just wanted the bone to add to it and make it more well we’ll just say “fancy”. If you remember that medal I had with me well it was touched to her bone relic and is classified as a “third class relic” Also I did devotions with a group of people and there was no image of her or relic present. So I never said I felt the relic is essential and an absoulute mandatory element in a prayer to a saint but it would be a special connection.

 

[katolik]

solanus:

How old is to old for an altar boy? I am an “ex” altar boy and would have to check with the wife (we have two little girls) to see if it would be ok. Probably would not be able to do it every week, but maybe every other as it is also a bit of a drive for us.

So, let me know if I could help and I will check with the boss.
Thanks

Great!
The saints, who will incense the heavenly altar, as say the book of the Apocalypse[Revelation] will be hundreds of years old depending on which saints they are. As long as you are younger than St.Peter and St.Paul you can serve. Understand?

AlexB, please send this man a letter with information please!

 

[katolik]

Please use a bigger font! It seems that with every post your type gets smaller.

Sorry, I got ahead of myself and into another fight!
Hey, do you have an AIM or Yahoo Messenger account? Send me your address through the inbox, please.

CathMass:

I never said the image was required. However I admit I am and will take the diary literally. I mean if Our Lord says I want the image venerated then by all means we have to have the image in the church and venerated.

***“I want the image to be solemnly blessed on the first Sunday after Easter, and I want it to be venerated publicly so that every soul may know about it. By means of the Image I shall be granting many graces to souls; so let every soul have access to it.” ***

(Diary 341, 570)

- Divine Mercy in my Soul

I knew St. Josaphat had no image so Alex and I talked and I will be providing the image which will be on loan from the Shrine of the Little Flower’ Perpetual Help group. One usher wanted Fr. Borkowski to give us Sweetest Heart’s image. Well he wouldn’t deprive that church of their image and well the image I’m bringing is normally locked up in a closet in the back of the church and sitting in a velvet bag and only comes out once a week on Tuesday. And its not 10 ft tall :nope:
Also I never said honor should be given more to the image than the Blessed Sacrament. However the image is considered a special part of the feast.
For all I know the chaplet may be said in a prison cell with nothing but a wall to stare at.
By the way go on EWTN’s website and they may have a recording of the chaplet sung in English and some Marian Priest said it was based on the Polish tune. If you’re thinking of that new modern chaplet tune well thats not what I’m talking about.

 

[solanus]

Great!
The saints, who will incense the heavenly altar, as say the book of the Apocalypse[Revelation] will be hundreds of years old depending on which saints they are. As long as you are younger than St.Peter and St.Paul you can serve. Understand?

AlexB, please send this man a letter with information please!

Send the info on over…Both our girls have 100+ temps so tonight may not be the best to run by her majesty:bowdown: as she has been stuck with them all day.

I will discuss with her over the next few nights and get back to you by wed on when and if it makes sense for me.

Thanks

 

[AlexB]

Solanus, we welcome men of all ages to serve. Come to the sacristy after Mass, and we’ll set up training and a plan that fits your availability.

Reliability is more important than availability. If you can help out one or two Sundays per month, that would be great. We are trying to maintain a formal schedule, so it will be important for you to be present on the Sundays on which you are scheduled.

The trumpet player and violinist were included because of the solemnity of the feast. Full orchestras accompany many Latin Masses; two instruments are certainly not out of line. Our cluster parish of St. Joseph does regular, marvelous Novus Ordo Latin Orchestral Masses. Once you hear such a Mass done “right,” you will see the appeal. The postlude the trumpeter played, Charpentier’s Te Deum, is a showcase for organ and trumpet, a memorable piece that lifts one’s mind to the majesty of God. However, I admit the trumpeter’s performance was a disappointment, made all the more evident by the loudness of the trumpet vs. the organ.

An upgrade of the organ is under consideration, following some structural work that needs to be done on St. Josaphat’s this summer. Long-term, we want to make St. Josaphat’s music program one of its main attractions, and that will include the occasional use of additional instruments. We are already assembling a small orchestra for Christmas Mass, 2005.

Netmil(name removed by moderator), Fr. Ben has occasionally brought servers from his parish. He is always welcome to bring more. And choir members are welcome, too, as long as their participation is cleared in advance with Mr. Sarweh, the music director. Come on down this Sunday and see what you have been missing!

 

[dezembrum]

I’ve been attending Traditional Mass at St. Josaphat’s ever since the first day it’s been offered - I’ve missed maybe two or three Sundays. It’s fairly close to my house (about 20 minutes to half an hour). Can’t tell you how glad I am to finally have it here. I used to burn quite a bit of gas making it out to Flint a couple of times every month for the Mass at All Saints. If only we could invite the FSSP here and establish a fully Traditional parish with marriages and confession etc. according to the old rubrics. I’m sure this would pump a lot more money into the parish, not to mention attracting the SSPXers who go to Mass in Redford. Maybe one of these days…

 

[dezembrum]

Sorry to post a second one right after the first, but looking over my post another question occured to me: does anyone know whether or not SSPX folk have made it out to St. Josaphat’s and abandoned St. Anne’s? I know I was almost to the point of going to Mass there (St. Anne’s) before Cardinal Maida allowed St. Jo’s the privelege of offering the Traditional Mass.

 

[netmilsmom]

AlexB:

Netmil(name removed by moderator), Fr. Ben has occasionally brought servers from his parish. He is always welcome to bring more. And choir members are welcome, too, as long as their participation is cleared in advance with Mr. Sarweh, the music director. Come on down this Sunday and see what you have been missing!

I e-mailed Fr. Ben and volunteered as a driver for anyone who needs it. I’m sorry this is so late, I was in Cleveland visiting family for the week and just got back to the boards.

 

[CathMass]

Divine Mercy Sunday
Solemn Tridentine High Mass
Celebrant: Fr. Ben Kosnac
9:30 AM
Confessions may be heard before Mass

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**As is the custom of Divine Mercy Sunday, an image of the Divine Mercy will be present at the Mass as arranged. As far as the Chaplet is concerned I am not sure if it will be said after mass or if there will be benediction. If neither are arranged the Divine Mercy Chaplet should be said instead of the Holy Rosary. **
**I will post more tommorrow after the meeting on Saturday. **
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember to PRAY FOR THE HOLY FATHER

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[pm1853]

Mass today was quite beautiful. Out of curiosity, where is the church getting the vestments from (storage? recently purchased?). I’m just curious thats all. I noticed the Roman style vestments used during lent looked brand new, yet today’s had a more antique look.

Fr. Kosnac’s sermon was very nice too, he kind of brought the day and the events of the week together. It was very poignant how he mentioned that today would be is first time not using the pope’s name during the liturgy.

I noticed something at church(es) today (I went to a memorial mass for the Pope in my hometown at 3:00). There wasn’t so much an outward sadness amongst the people as there was a resignation of sorts. No one wanted the day to come, but it had too. It felt odd during the prayers over the eucharist (this afternoon) not hearing the name of the pope. I think the pastor ALMOST forgot not to say them, it seemed like he really wanted to.

Regardless, mass was beautiful though i can understand now why it hasn’t been done yet: so many people involved and so choreographed. I hope to see another one again eventually.

PS-I should express my appreciation to St. Josaphat’s for going through the pains to make this mass as meaningful and reverent as it is.

 

[pm1853]

Regardless, mass was beautiful though i can understand now why it hasn’t been done yet: so many people involved and so choreographed. I hope to see another one again eventually.

I should specify…I’m referring to the complexity of the High Mass.

 

[AlexB]

You can thank Fr. Borkowski for most of the vestments you have seen. St. Josaphat started out with a very small number of vestments, most of which were pretty generic. Since the TLM was announced, Fr. Borkowski has taken it upon himself to amass a collection of more appropriate vestments, in many if not most cases using his own personal funds. The church just doesn’t have the budget to buy them on its own.

Some of the vestments are used, some are new and custom made. Note how often we have matching maniples…those puppies are hard to find. Fr. Borkowski has had them made if he can’t dig a matching one up. Some might say he’s obsessed; I’d just say he’s generous.

On a side note, a member of the congregation recently donated a home made chasuble, stole and maniple. Wow.

The solemn gold set of vestments you saw last Sunday is the best we have. Father is justifiably proud of that set, and even loaned it to Windsor’s St. Michael Church TLM over Christmas. No sense keeping such gems in the closet.

As for the Mass itself, you can thank Fr. Kosnac for his dedication in practicing on his own, and with the deacons. For someone who had never even seen a TLM a few months ago, he sure has caught on to the complexities quickly. So much depends on what a particular celebrant is willing to do.

We are currently discussing having another Solemn Mass for Corpus Christi, to accompany a First Holy Communion. Stay tuned.

 

[MatthewWindsor]

AlexB:

The solemn gold set of vestments you saw last Sunday is the best we have. Father is justifiably proud of that set, and even loaned it to Windsor’s St. Michael Church TLM over Christmas. No sense keeping such gems in the closet.

I love those vestments. Best set I’ve ever seen.

 

[Chris_in_Mich]

Has the list of celebrants been updated at all?