Detroit's Tridentine Mass

[paterpetri]

AlexB:

You wouldn’t tell McDonalds to “bring back” burgers just because you saw someone order a Filet of Fish.

Tee hee. Touche, Alex!

 

[MatthewWindsor]

If any of you are interested in seeing the music schedule for Christmas at St. Josaphat, you can check out my blog as I have them posted…
www.mmeloche.blogspot.com

…And no this isn’t just a post to promote my blog, but also a post to promote the local Tridentine Masses.

 

[glennski]

Hi All
I Would Like To Comment On What I Found Out
Sunday At St Josaphat’s Tridentine Mass In Detroit!!!

None Of The Communions Given Out Are Consecrated In A Ciborium At The Tridentine Mass There, But Given From Ones Consecrated A Time Before At A Novus Ordo Mass!!!

Do People Going There Know This ???why Does It Have To Be This Way ??. Does This Take Place In Other Dioceses Which Do The Indult Mass.??
Or Do We Say Only In Detroit Again???
I Guess I Must Rethink This On These Matters!!

I Feel These Are Good Questions!! What Do You Think!!!>??? …

. , Pax Dominus Te Cum

 

[AlexB]

The practice you mention has been set by Fr. Borkowski. This is not something the Archdiocese ordered. There is no particular reason for it.

My personal preference is that hosts be consecrated at both the TLM and NO Masses. But to presuppose that NO hosts are somehow less validly consecrated is a dangerous road to trod on. The NO Masses at St. Josaphat are celebrated according to the rubrics; no funny business goes on. Consecrations are by the book.

Call or e-mail Fr. Borkowski. He might be willing to change this practice if enough of us speak up. But do it charitably, please.

 

[CathMass]

The Hosts consecrated at the Novus Ordo Masses are just as much valid as the hosts in the Tridentine Rite. The Eucharist is very much truly present in the hosts from either rite. Also Fr. Ward and Fr. Borkowski always say Mass with devotion and faith.

Now Please let us not stray from the main topic.

 

[CathMass]

Yesterday’s Christmas Solemn High Mass was very beautiful. The orchestra was wonderful as well as the singers. The church was beautiful and the Mass was very well done and the Church looked magnificent. The Mass was a very special experience.

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**Now some comments on the Windsor Tridentine community which is very much connected to Detroit’s Community. **
**The Windsor Mass was very nice and the Reverend Fr. Van Vliet FSSP offered this Solemn High Mass. There wasvery good music and it was nice to have a member of the Priestly Fraternity around. **

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[CathMass]

Please feel free to post your comments about our Solemn High Mass on Christmas Day. We need to keep this “extension of the social hall” perpetually open.

Remember that January 1 is considered a Holy Day but it is Sunday so you have to go to Church anyway.

Our Celebrant next week is Fr. Titus Kieninger ORC

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See this thread to help All Saints Soup Kitchen
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=91242

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Please forgive me for hijacking the thread only for a moment. Please take note of my signature and follow the link. The news media in Detroit did not do a good enough job getting the word out so please let people know about this need.

All replies belong in the thread linked in my signature, which will remain for the next two weeks or so.

 

[CathMass]

I don’t mind the signature because I am putting the same thing on my posts. We need to perform charity and putting up this link is a charitable act.

However I do request that it remain only as a signature and not an actual post/announcement.

 

[Morning_Glory]

CathMass:

I don’t mind the signature because I am putting the same thing on my posts. We need to perform charity and putting up this link is a charitable act.

However I do request that it remain only as a signature and not an actual post/announcement.

****Thanks again.

By the way, do have any pictures of the Christmas Mass? I’m still trying to make it down to attend Mass, but I sometimes feel guilty about not attending my own parish on Sundays.

Maggie****

 

[CathMass]

I don’t have any pictures of this year’s Christmas Mass but maybe some other person out there might want to post a picture.

 

[glennski]

DEAR A
SO WHY ARE WE DENIED HOSTS TO BE CONCECRATED AT THE TRIDENTINE MASS AT 930AM
ITS A CONTRADICTION TO ME, IM SORRY,
I KINDA SURE THIS IS NOT GOING ON IN OTHER DIOCESES WITH THE INDULT AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE POPE WOULD SAY TO THIS??
GLENN…SKI

CathMass:

The Hosts consecrated at the Novus Ordo Masses are just as much valid as the hosts in the Tridentine Rite. The Eucharist is very much truly present in the hosts from either rite. Also Fr. Ward and Fr. Borkowski always say Mass with devotion and faith.

Now Please let us not stray from the main topic.

 

[glennski]

DEAR ? AND ALEX B

AHH HERE’S A GOOD EXTRA COMMENT TO THIS
WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WINDSOR MASS IN THIS REGARDS .??? WE CAN START AT SOME PLACE CLOSEBY FIRST TO SEE IF THIS THE SAME AS ST JOSAPHAT’S…!! OK1
GLENN…SKI

CathMass:

The Hosts consecrated at the Novus Ordo Masses are just as much valid as the hosts in the Tridentine Rite. The Eucharist is very much truly present in the hosts from either rite. Also Fr. Ward and Fr. Borkowski always say Mass with devotion and faith.

Now Please let us not stray from the main topic.

 

[glennski]

DEAR ALL AND ALEX B
IM SORRY THAT THIS WAS CENSORED . I GUESS SOME HERE ARE STILL AFRAID OF TRADITION IN THE STRICTEST SENSE SORRY ONCE AGAIN…
I FELT PEOPLE HAD A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THIS TOPIC AT ST JOSAPHAT’S L.T.M.
ONCE AGAIN SORRY
TRULY

GLENN…SKI

glennski:

Hi All
I Would Like To Comment On What I Found Out
Sunday At St Josaphat’s Tridentine Mass In Detroit!!!

None Of The Communions Given Out Are Consecrated In A Ciborium At The Tridentine Mass There, But Given From Ones Consecrated A Time Before At A Novus Ordo Mass!!!

Do People Going There Know This ???why Does It Have To Be This Way ??. Does This Take Place In Other Dioceses Which Do The Indult Mass.??
Or Do We Say Only In Detroit Again???
I Guess I Must Rethink This On These Matters!!

I Feel These Are Good Questions!! What Do You Think!!!>??? …

. , Pax Dominus Te Cum

 

[glennski]

DEAR ALL
SO WE PRAY AND HOPE FOR HUH!!! I WONDER!
GLENN…SKI

QUOTE=CathMass]The Hosts consecrated at the Novus Ordo Masses are just as much valid as the hosts in the Tridentine Rite. The Eucharist is very much truly present in the hosts from either rite. Also Fr. Ward and Fr. Borkowski always say Mass with devotion and faith.

Now Please let us not stray from the main topic.

 

[AlexB]

Glenn:

Fr. Mark reads this thread, and has decided henceforth to permit consecration of hosts at the Tridentine Mass. On Christmas Day, hosts were consecrated by Fr. Seitz. These hosts are not kept separate from the N.O. consecrated hosts; you cannot pick and choose which ones you receive.

In Windsor at St. Michael’s, just as the former policy at St. Josaphat, hosts are not ordinarily consecrated at the TLM. The reason is the same as at St. Josaphat: The pastor is not ordinarily the celebrant of the TLM. He considers it his responsibility to ensure that a reasonable supply of consecrated hosts is present in the tabernacle, therefore he consecrates a sufficient number of them at his (N.O.) Mass. No one has expressed any concern in Windsor, but I’m sure that if someone did, the policy would likewise change. Like Fr. Mark, St. Michael’s pastor Fr. Roche supports the TLM community in every way he can.

I understand why you think there may be a diocesan plan behind this, but there isn’t. These are decisions made at the parish level, and are open for discussion. You do raise a valid point, in that it does express a certain bidirectional unity with our N.O. colleagues in the parish to have hosts consecrated at the TLM, but I take strong exception to the suggestion that NO hosts are somehow less valid. Holy Mother Church considers hosts consecrated under either rite to be equally valid.

If you any further questions or concerns on this matter, please discuss them with Fr. Mark.

 

[palmas85]

At a lot of the indults nationwide, the consecrated host is brought in. Often, they have been consecrated at a Novus Ordo Mass The Vatican position on this is really pretty clear, consecration at a validly celebrated Novus Ordo Mass is valid, even though the words pro multis have been translated as for all instead of for many. End of story. I know that many traditionalists believe that this act alone invalidates the Novus Ordo consecration, but it doesn’t.

If I am not mistaken, priests who celebrate the Traditional Rite still havethe obligation to celebrate the Novus Ordo Mass if directed by their superiors, as it is the normative mass of the Church.

I too have problems with some the translations inflicted(too harsh), (name removed by moderator)osed upon us, however, if we adhere to the belief that the change in wording invalidates the Mass, then we cannot in good conscience say that we are faithful to the Catholic faith and to the Holy Father.

In the past several years I have come to believe that a lot of what has happened in the past forty or so years was allowed to happen, maybe as a test of some sort, who knows. In any event, the new translations should, hopefuly, be out soon, and maybe this will be corrected.

In any event please don’t fall into the mindset that Novus Ordo Masses are invalid.

 

[Distributist]

palmas85:

At a lot of the indults nationwide, the consecrated host is brought in. Often, they have been consecrated at a Novus Ordo Mass The Vatican position on this is really pretty clear, consecration at a validly celebrated Novus Ordo Mass is valid, even though the words pro multis have been translated as for all instead of for many. End of story. I know that many traditionalists believe that this act alone invalidates the Novus Ordo consecration, but it doesn’t.

If I am not mistaken, priests who celebrate the Traditional Rite still havethe obligation to celebrate the Novus Ordo Mass if directed by their superiors, as it is the normative mass of the Church.

I too have problems with some the translations inflicted(too harsh), (name removed by moderator)osed upon us, however, if we adhere to the belief that the change in wording invalidates the Mass, then we cannot in good conscience say that we are faithful to the Catholic faith and to the Holy Father.

In the past several years I have come to believe that a lot of what has happened in the past forty or so years was allowed to happen, maybe as a test of some sort, who knows. In any event, the new translations should, hopefuly, be out soon, and maybe this will be corrected.

In any event please don’t fall into the mindset that Novus Ordo Masses are invalid.

What if the priest uses a cookie for the bread and coffee for the wine? If bishops can allow this to happen i will stay with the postion of the Society of Pope St. Pius X—i remain filled with hope in God and the Immaculate Heart that Pope Benedict XVI will consecrate Russia and destroy this New (World) Order from the Church and if possible from the world (though i think it is the world). What do you think Pope Paul VI meant when he said “the smoke of satan has entered the Church”?

Kyrie eleison…

By the merits of Thy Circumcision O Sweet Jesus help Thy Church.

Have a holy new year,
Jonathan

 

[bear06]

Distributist:

What if the priest uses a cookie for the bread and coffee for the wine? If bishops can allow this to happen i will stay with the postion of the Society of Pope St. Pius X—i remain filled with hope in God and the Immaculate Heart that Pope Benedict XVI will consecrate Russia and destroy this New (World) Order from the Church and if possible from the world (though i think it is the world). What do you think Pope Paul VI meant when he said “the smoke of satan has entered the Church”?

Kyrie eleison…

By the merits of Thy Circumcision O Sweet Jesus help Thy Church.

Have a holy new year,
Jonathan

Reading Novus Ordo Watch again?

 

[CathMass]

Please enough discussing the issue of Communion Hosts. We must keep this thread on topic and in line with forum rules. Fr. Borkowski is allowing hosts to be consecrated at the Detroit Indult so this should be the end of the host discussion. As I said before hosts consecrated at both Masses are truly the Body of Christ.

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See this thread to help All Saints Soup Kitchen
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=91242