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El_camino
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itsjustdave1988, I think Kaycee confused here, as before she had admitted that Origen did considered the deuteros as scripture.
Blessings,
E.C.
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Blessings,
E.C.
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Nancie_Lew
Guest
Than you guys will turn around and use the teaching of the Jews to justify purgatory.It doesn’t, does it?? It says “all Scripture”. Period.
And sincethe Deuteros **are **Scripture…
My friend, you have just put your finger on the most important point of all. Indeed, that is the very thing which decided for me, long ago, that it was folly (& worse!) to reject the Deuterocanon…Their rejection leads inexorably to therejection of Jesus Christ.
Now, I really don’t think that that was what Martin Luther had in mind. But-- it is the logical outcome of depending on those who reject Him, instead of leaning on those who follow after Him.
Something our friend kaycee seems not to care to ponder…
Did the Methodist Church teach you to accept witchcraft, conflicting timelines, and commended suicide because they are part of the Deutrocanons?.
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El_camino
Guest
Or the BIBLE as well:
Withcraft: THe witch of Endor… You have Saul talking to a witch who serves as a medium to have Samuel come out of hades and speaks to Saul… Not only that, Samuel speaks the truth! (1 Samul 28), NOT ONE this is condemned
Conflicting timelines: Have you ever read the account of the flood in Genesis. Very conflicting… IT shows that Genesis was written by at least four authors and ONE author joined together all four versions.
Comending suicide: Job wanted to kill himself…
So you see, ATHEISTS are wont to raise all these things against well acepted canonical books… just like ANTI-DEUTEROS raise similar questions about the deuteros. Just like the examples in the bible, the ones in the deutero can be easily explained.
Blessings,
E.C.
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Janet_S
Guest
Are you a Methodist?
Which books in the Bible do you believe are “inspired” (God-breathed)?
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kaycee
Guest
Sorry, Its Dave1988 and you that are confused. I said Origen confirmed that the Jews did not accept the apocrypha, NOT that Origen did not accept them. Origen did.
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Zooey
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Nancie Lew’s profile says
“none” under religion. It is:shrug: not all certain whether that means that she is an atheist, or whether she belongs to one of those:shrug: fundamentalist groups who insist that they " don’t have a religion".(Some day, I am going to figure out what on earth that means, anyway…)
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
Origen did. And according to Origen, so did “every Church of Christ.” (Origen, Letter to Africanus, 2)
As I showed above, Origen stated that these portions of Sacred Scripture were “**concealed and removed from the Scriptures” **by the Jews. [Origen, *To Africanus, 9]. We know that some Jews refused to do so, as did every Church of Christ..
In the final analysis, Protestants rejected Origen’s Bible, Jerome’s Bible, and the books of the Christian Bible used by every Church of Christ since the advent of Christ. Hmmmm…difficult to find that compelling.
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El_camino
Guest
ok
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El_camino
Guest
, 9]. We know that some Jews refused to do so, as did every Church of Christ..
In the final analysis, Protestants rejected Origen’s Bible, Jerome’s Bible, and the books of the Christian Bible used by every Church of Christ since the advent of Christ. Hmmmm…difficult to find that compelling.
That is exactly what I was saying… Protestants, like Kaycee, who care enough to justify (as most don’t care) why they reject the deuteros would appeal to the JEWS who rejected Christ, to whom Christ himself calls “children of the father of Lies” because the “truth is not in them” (John 8:44), who have NO authority at all and to Jerome and a couple other Christians ECFs, who rejected the deuteros and other books or DID not reject all the deuteros (e.g., Athanasius who did not reject Baruch but reject Esther). But this is pick and choose over an OVERWHELMING majority of ECFs who DID accept the deuteros and who confirmed that the CHURCH of their time, as a whole, DID accept them.
Any way, very very arbitrary and very dire their situation is.
Blessings,
E.C.
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El_camino
Guest
KAYCEE you DID NOT answer my question that I posted before, see below
Kaycee:
Blessings,
E.C.
So, let me ask you a question. Because the JEWS were entrusted the oracles of God (Rom 3:1-2), which according to you is the reason why you should use their canon, IF they were to get together again, like they did in Jamnia in the year 100 A.D. (almost 70 year after Christ’s death), when they got rid of the deuteros, and decide to get RID of Nehemiah or Eclesiastes (which are books that are NOT cited in the N.T.) like they did with the deuteros, would you have to follow them like you do with the deuteros and reject those books as well?
Blessings,
E.C.
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lak611
Guest
So do you reject Judges since Samson committed suicide? “Jdg 16:28 And Samson called unto the LORD, and said, O Lord GOD, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.
Jdg 16:29 And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.
Jdg 16:30 And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.(KJV)”
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Nancie_Lew
Guest
Since you mentioned the Dead Sea Scrolls why is it that no Deutrocanonical books were found among them?
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Nancie_Lew
Guest
How does this glorify suicide like the Deutrocanonical books? The Philistines were enemies of God. God often calls for the extermination of pagan people. He simply used Sampson as a way to destroy them.
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lak611
Guest
How does it differ? Neither books glorify suicide. How do you come to the conclusion that the Deuterocanonicals glorify suicide?
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Nancie_Lew
Guest
So Catholics believe that the Deutrocanonical books are more important than the New Testament? That they have presidence over them? You obviously have to think that way because Catholics get most of their teaching from them rather than from the New Testament. Why… when they were written before the birth of Christ during a time when there was no Jewish profit. The Deutrocanonicals themselves say that they are not inspired scripture.
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El_camino
Guest
What are you talking about?? Portions of several of those deuterocanonical books were found written in HEBREW no less, showing that that was the original language in which they were written invalidating the assertion of some who say they should be rejected because they were written in Greek. One thing is that the oldest manuscripts that survived , other than the ones found among the dead see scrolls, are in Greek.
Blessings,
E.C.
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lak611
Guest
Where do you get that notion?
Show me some numbers in terms of Church dogmas that use the Deuterocanonicals rather than the New Testament. Show me where the Deuterocanonicals are quoted more in the Catechism of the Catholic Church than the New Testament.
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deb216
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You could not be more wrong. There were many Deutrocanonical books found among the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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deb216
Guest
No, we do not believe that the Deutrocanonical books are more important than the New Testament.
The Deutrocanonical books do not have precedence.
We do not get most of our teachings from the Deutrocanonical books.
This is all nonsense. You really need to get your facts straight.
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Odell
Guest
I dont know if anyone has sited this but it has the new testement verses that correspond to the Deutrocanonical books. They could not be quoteing from any onter book but the Deutrocanonical.
www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html
www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html
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