Devotion to Mary is it ever "to much"

[De_Montfort]

Fair enough.

However, I might suggest that similar accolades have been heaped upon Saints Bonaventure, who is known as the Seraphic Doctor; and Bernard of Clairvaux, who is also a doctor of the Church. Both of them opposed the Immacuate Conception being made doctrine. St. Thomas Aquinas, was at the least uncomfortable with it, though he stated that he would accept the decision of the Church. In addition, a great theologian of the same time Alexander of Hales, who has been called the Doctor Irrefragabilis (Irrefutable Teacher) and Doctor Doctorum (Teacher of Teachers), was also against the Immaculate Conception being made into dogma. Am I now free to ignore the Immacuate Conception because of what some great saints who had fancy titles given to them wrote and said? I think not.

Perhaps it is best to avoid the logical fallacy of an appeal authority by cherry picking quotes of saints you happen to agree with, and study Mary within the entire tradition of the Church going all the way back to the Church Fathers. Perhaps it is wise to note that if you wish to take your Marian devotion to the level of a Saint Kolbe or de Montfort, that you are free to do so within the Tradition of the Church. However, someone else who may not wish to take things to the same level that those two particular saints did, is also free to make that decision.

Do you have links or proof of your claim. I know Bernard of Clairvaux, Saint Bonaventure, had great devotion to Our Holy Mother, and spoke highly of Her priviliages. I do not see them wishing to reject the Immaculate Conception. St. Louis de Montfort uses quotes from St. Bernard in numerous places. Again here we are at someones speculation.

As for as taking my devotion to the “level” of St. Louis de Montfort and St. Maximilian Kolbe Pope John Paul II says his teaching coincides with the themes of the whole Church!

1. "Dear brothers and sisters of the great Montfortian Family, in this year of prayer and reflection on the precious heritage of St Louis-Marie, I encourage you: make this treasure bear fruit; it must not remain hidden. The teaching of your founder and master coincides with the themes that the whole Church meditates on at the approach of the Great Jubilee; it marks out for us the path of true wisdom that must be laid open to so many young people who search for meaning in their lives and for an art of living."

LINK

Again here we are at opinions. I will take my advice from the Saints and Holy Popes. The simple fact is that as time goes on Dogmas and teachings come to fruit over time. I am sure no proof can be given of these Saints you listed that they wished that the Immaculate Conception not be proclaimed. Most of them had a great devotion to Mary and would make no sense for them not wanting to see Her honored.

 

[ThatOneGuy92]

But we all must remember that Christ came only through Her, and His strongest wish is that we come to Him through His blessed Mother.

May I ask where this can be found? That Christ’s strongest wish is that we come to Him through the Blessed Virgin?

 

[Brooklyn]

Fair enough.

However, I might suggest that similar accolades have been heaped upon Saints Bonaventure, who is known as the Seraphic Doctor; and Bernard of Clairvaux, who is also a doctor of the Church. Both of them opposed the Immacuate Conception being made doctrine. St. Thomas Aquinas, was at the least uncomfortable with it, though he stated that he would accept the decision of the Church. In addition, a great theologian of the same time Alexander of Hales, who has been called the Doctor Irrefragabilis (Irrefutable Teacher) and Doctor Doctorum (Teacher of Teachers), was also against the Immaculate Conception being made into dogma. Am I now free to ignore the Immacuate Conception because of what some great saints who had fancy titles given to them wrote and said? I think not.

Perhaps it is best to avoid the logical fallacy of an appeal authority by cherry picking quotes of saints you happen to agree with, and study Mary within the entire tradition of the Church going all the way back to the Church Fathers. Perhaps it is wise to note that if you wish to take your Marian devotion to the level of a Saint Kolbe or de Montfort, that you are free to do so within the Tradition of the Church. However, someone else who may not wish to take things to the same level that those two particular saints did, is also free to make that decision.

As I’m sure you know, it was not binding upon Catholics to believe in the Immaculate Conception until 1854 when it was declared dogma. Are you saying that because they did not accept a belief that was not binding upon them when they lived that we should disregard everything else out that they said and wrote? St. Thomas Aquinas is considered by many to be the greatest Catholic intellect who ever lived, and despite his misgivings about the Immaculate Conception, he had a strong Marian devotion. Can you give us any saints who said we should moderate our Marian devotion, not to go overboard in it? There is not one saint in the 2000 year history of the church who even hinted at it. St. Augustine in the 4th century said it is impossible to give too much honor to Mary. Not even those saints who you point to as not believing in the Immaculate Conception ever hinted that it was possible to be too devoted to Mary. They all had strong Marian devotion. It is only in recent decades that we have Catholics talking about “too much” Marian devotion.

No one is saying you can’t be a Catholic in good standing if you don’t have strong Marian devotion. What we are saying is that, as attested to by probably thousands of saints down through the centuries is that strong Marian devotion will help you tremendously in your spiritual journey.

May I ask where this can be found? That Christ’s strongest wish is that we come to Him through the Blessed Virgin?

I know that as a Lutheran you do not believe in Marian devotion as Catholics do, nor would I expect you to, but even the founder of your religion, Martin Luther, had a deep devotion to Mary and saw her as the Mother of God and believed strongly in her perpetual virginity.

When our Lord was dying on the cross, at the very end when every breath was an effort and he could barely form words, he still forced himself to say to Mary regarding the apostle, John “Woman behold your son.” And to John he said, “Behold your mother.” Now Jesus knew long before that point that he was going to die. He told his apostles many times. He didn’t have to wait till the literal last minute to be sure that his mother was taken care of. As Catholics, we believe he did this so that all Christians everywhere would take this message personally. He was giving us the person he loved more than any other in the world to be our mother, and he told her that we are now her children. How can that express any stronger the importance that he puts on the relationship we have with his mother?

 

[jwinch2]

Are you saying that because they did not accept a belief that was not binding upon them when they lived that we should disregard everything else out that they said and wrote?

No, I am saying that is entirely possible for our great saints, even those given lofty titles by the Church, to be wrong. Thus, throwing quotes out from saints, taken out of context, as if they are binding dogma upon the faithful is not good practice because there are many things which have been said and written by the saints throughout the life of the Church that have been either wrong, or not adopted into the teachings of the Church. Furthermore, an appeal to the saints and their writings as if they represent authoritative teaching of the Church is a logical fallacy. Finally, using the writings of specific saints who had very strong Marian devotion in an attempt to sway those who are having problems with exactly those type of writings is counter productive.

 

[Brooklyn]

No, I am saying that is entirely possible for our great saints, even those given lofty titles by the Church, to be wrong. Thus, throwing quotes out from saints, taken out of context, as if they are binding dogma upon the faithful is not good practice because there are many things which have been said and written by the saints throughout the life of the Church that have been either wrong, or not adopted into the teachings of the Church. Furthermore, an appeal to the saints and their writings as if they represent authoritative teaching of the Church is a logical fallacy. Finally, using the writings of specific saints who had very strong Marian devotion in an attempt to sway those who are having problems with exactly those type of writings is counter productive.

As a Catholic, I am sure you accept the teaching of the Church that Mary is the Mother of God and that Christ gave her to be our mother also. I think you will also agree that no saint or pope has ever warned against excessive Marian devotion. So what exactly is your problem with the OP’s argument that devotion to Mary can never be too excessive? The charge is made on this forum all the time that people put Mary above Christ. I personally have not seen it here nor have I ever seen it with anyone I know. Do you know of any such cases? Do you think that Mary would allow anyone who is genuinely devoted to her to put her above Christ? She didn’t even allow that with her cousin, Elizabeth. Elizabeth said, “How am I worthy that the the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Mary’s immediate response was to point to God, which is where we get the Magnificat: “My soul does magnify the Lord, my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour.”

I can only tell you from my own personal experience that the more devoted I become to our Blessed Mother, the more I love our Lord. I spent many years outside of the Cathlic church and completely divorced from our Blessed Mother. Since coming back to the Church and discovery a new found devotion to our Blessed Mother, I love our Lord more than I ever did in my Protestant years when I thought I was giving devotion only to Him.

 

[De_Montfort]

No, I am saying that is entirely possible for our great saints, even those given lofty titles by the Church, to be wrong. Thus, throwing quotes out from saints, taken out of context, as if they are binding dogma upon the faithful is not good practice because there are many things which have been said and written by the saints throughout the life of the Church that have been either wrong, or not adopted into the teachings of the Church. Furthermore, an appeal to the saints and their writings as if they represent authoritative teaching of the Church is a logical fallacy. Finally, using the writings of specific saints who had very strong Marian devotion in an attempt to sway those who are having problems with exactly those type of writings is counter productive.

Nothing that I have stated or quoted is “taken out of context”. The problem is, it doesn’t fit someones opinion of where Mary should be.

I have shown through the Saints of the Church that nothing is to much to honor The Mother of God, not worship! If anyone worships anything besides God that is hersey.

How is proving my points with quotes and approvals of the Popes abuot these Saint’s “counter productive” Again it’s because it doesn’t fit in someones “opinion” where Mary should be.

Like shown before the Teachings of St. Louis de Montfort, and St Maximilian Kolbe are in line with the teaching of the Church and there is nothing wrong in proclaiming the teachings of these Holy Saints

 

[jwinch2]

As a Catholic, I am sure you accept the teaching of the Church that Mary is the Mother of God and that Christ gave her to be our mother also. I think you will also agree that no saint or pope has ever warned against excessive Marian devotion.

I agree with all Church doctrine regarding Mary and agree that many great saints have encouraged strong devotion to her.

So what exactly is your problem with the OP’s argument that devotion to Mary can never be too excessive? The charge is made on this forum all the time that people put Mary above Christ. I personally have not seen it here nor have I ever seen it with anyone I know. Do you know of any such cases?

Yes. As I noted in another thread that I liked to earlier, I know such people and I have heard from more than one experienced and orthodox priest that they have had to speak to members of their parish about making sure that they had the mother of God places in her proper place in relation to Christ. In addition, such people have posted here on CAF. There is an old thread on a quote from Saint Bonaventure which states that Mary is the gateway to Heaven,or something along those lines. In that thread, the claim is made by at least one person but if my memory serves, more than one, that one cannot get to God except through devotion to Mary or that one must seek Mary’s intercession to get to Heaven. When I disagreed with this interpretation I was accused of hating our Blessed Mother. I am sorry, but that level of Marian devotion is too much.

Do you think that Mary would allow anyone who is genuinely devoted to her to put her above Christ?

I don’t think Mary controls people’s actions.

I can only tell you from my own personal experience that the more devoted I become to our Blessed Mother, the more I love our Lord. I spent many years outside of the Cathlic church and completely divorced from our Blessed Mother. Since coming back to the Church and discovery a new found devotion to our Blessed Mother, I love our Lord more than I ever did in my Protestant years when I thought I was giving devotion only to Him.

I am glad that you find Marian devotion helpful in your spiritual journey. She has been helpful to me as well.

 

[jwinch2]

Nothing that I have stated or quoted is “taken out of context”. The problem is, it doesn’t fit someones opinion of where Mary should be.

Actually, no. When you quote saints without providing the context to understand them properly within the teaching of the Church, that meets the very definition of taking something out of context. This is particularly true when using quotes which are easily misinterpreted.

 

[Elixir]

In regards to the comments about Saints: they’re Saints due to living lives of heroic virtue, not because everything they ever said or wrote was perfect and has to be believed by the faithful.

And, yes, Marian devotion can become an overbearing obsession for some folks. I’ve seen it. Stick to Church teaching and you’ll be in good stead.

 

[De_Montfort]

In regards to the comments about Saints: they’re Saints due to living lives of heroic virtue, not because everything they ever said or wrote was perfect and has to be believed by the faithful.

And, yes, Marian devotion can become an overbearing obsession for some folks. I’ve seen it. Stick to Church teaching and you’ll be in good stead.

Their wisdom is to be taken in. I like how it’s being shown like the two Saints, De Montfort and Kolbe are some how not to be applied to for Marian devotion.

Like I said I will take my advice from Holy Saints then just someones opinion. These two Saints teachings are within Church guide lines and are approved by Popes.

Mary can only lead to Jesus, and we can never love Her with a love of which Jesus loves Her.

Pope John Paul II endorsed De Montforts teachings and calles Maximilian Kolbe an “apostle of a new Marian age” Because of Kolbe’s teaching I believe Mary will one day be proclaimed Mediatrix of all graces. and advocate. In fact Kolbe proclaimed this himself!

So please, enough with acting like these two Saints go against the Catholic Churchs teaching. As Pope John Paul II said it, the teachings coincides with themes of the whole Church!

 

[Brooklyn]

I agree with all Church doctrine regarding Mary and agree that many great saints have encouraged strong devotion to her. Yes. As I noted in another thread that I liked to earlier, I know such people and I have heard from more than one experienced and orthodox priest that they have had to speak to members of their parish about making sure that they had the mother of God places in her proper place in relation to Christ. In addition, such people have posted here on CAF. There is an old thread on a quote from Saint Bonaventure which states that Mary is the gateway to Heaven,or something along those lines. In that thread, the claim is made by at least one person but if my memory serves, more than one, that one cannot

get to God except through devotion to Mary or that one must seek Mary’s intercession to get to Heaven. When I disagreed with this interpretation I was accused of hating our Blessed Mother. I am sorry, but that level of Marian devotion is too much. I don’t think Mary controls people’s actions.

Blessed John Paul II’s motto was “Totus Tuus”, which means “All Yours.” And that is not quoted out of context. You may classify that as being over the top, but Bl. JP II’s devotion to Mary came in large part from reading “True Devotion to Mary.” He said: “Thanks to Saint Louis of Montfort, I came to understand that true devotion to the Mother of God is actually Christocentric” I guess you would tend to disagree with that.

But Bl. JP II’s statement has been my experience. I have never personally had the experience of knowing anyone with a genuine devotion to our Blessed Mother who was anything other than Christocentric, just as Blessed John Paul II said. I can’t speak for your experiences.

You’re right, neither Mary nor her Son control anyone. Mary’s whole entire mission is to lead, not push, us to her Son, and she never fails to do it. Marian devotion, as Blessed John Paul II said, is never about Mary, it is all about Christ, and I think that is what you and others fail to see, because if you understood that, you would understand why true Marian devotion can never be excessive.

It is true that Mary is the Gate of Heaven. That is one of her names which is used in the Litany of the Blessed Virgin, and many churches and schools have been named just that in her honor down through the years. St. Louis de Montfort said Christ came to us through Mary, and we need to go to him through Mary. I hope you don’t find that insulting, but many great saints, including the present Holy Father’s immediate predecessor, believed that with all their hearts. In fact, this is what Pope Benedict XVI said in 2009:

Speaking before Sunday’s Angelus in the city of Brescia, Italy, the Holy Father recalled Paul VI’s strong devotion to the Blessed Mother. “As his ecclesial responsibilities increased he in fact developed an ever wider vision and organic relationship with the Blessed Virgin Mary and the mystery of the Church,” noted Pope Benedict.

The Pontiff continued, recalling the promulgation of “Lumen Gentium.” “In the words of Paul VI it 'has as its summit and crowning a whole chapter devoted to the Virgin’.” In that context, Pope Paul “proclaimed the Blessed Virgin Mary ‘Mother of the Church,’ pointing out, with great ecumenical sensitivity, that 'devotion to Mary…is an ordained means of guiding souls to Christ and thus join them with the Father, in the love of the Holy Spirit’.”

As I said, people had very few problems with Marian devotion in past generations of Catholics. This is a fairly new phenomenon in the Catholic Church.

Also, DeMontfort asked that you provide the proof that his quotes were taken out of context. So far, you keep accusing him of that but have given nothing to back up those accusations.
Elixir;9364854:

In regards to the comments about Saints: they’re Saints due to living lives of heroic virtue, not because everything they ever said or wrote was perfect and has to be believed by the faithful.

And, yes, Marian devotion can become an overbearing obsession for some folks. I’ve seen it. Stick to Church teaching and you’ll be in good stead.

See the quote from above from Pope Benedict XVI.

 

[TimothyH]

May I ask where this can be found? That Christ’s strongest wish is that we come to Him through the Blessed Virgin?

Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. (John 19:27)

All throughout the Davidic Kingdom, from Solomon to Jesus, the mother of the king was the queen, and people went through the queen to get favors from the king. Jesus as the last of the Davidic Kings, and his Mother Mary, are no different. Jesus is a King, and Mary is his Queen.

In giving Mary to the “Beloved Disciple”, Jesus was giving a Queen and Mother to the his body, the Church.

-Tim-

 

[TrueLight]

Was this a warning against Mariolatry?

Luke 11:
27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”

28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God(W) and obey it.”

 

[De_Montfort]

Was this a warning against Mariolatry?

In no way does that quote say that Mary should be rejected, Christ is simply showing what made Her blessed.

Remeber Elizabeth said “Blessed is she who believed what was spoken to her”

“The Virgin Mary fulfilled the will of the Father; she accepted the divine message; conceived by faith, and was chosen to give birth to the Saviour of us all; she was created by Christ before Christ was made man in her. Mary fulfilled the will of the Father perfectly. Thus, that she is a disciple of Christ is more important that the fact that she is his mother; she is more blessed because she is a disciple of Christ than because she is his mother. Mary is blessed because before she gave birth to the Master she carried him in her soul.”
(St. Augustine, Sermones, 25,7)

It simply poinst to the “higher” form of her being Blessed. It in no way takes away from Her being Blessed amoung women, and Her motherhood. Remember when Elizabeth, blessed Her amoung women and the fruit of her womb she was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Edit: It is also I believe that Mary wished to be hidden, and I believe God kept the knowledge of Her for Himself. Christ also fostered Her humility! She is “Mother hidden”

 

[TimothyH]

Was this a warning against Mariolatry?

Luke 11:
27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”

It is a correction of the Jewish misconcpetion that your geneology or nationality is what makes you pleasing to God, that just because you are the son of someone who was righteous does not make you righteous and just because your son is someone important, that doesn’t mean that you are pleasing to God. Just because you are from the tribe of Judah doesn’t mean that you are automatically favored by God. That is what the Jews believed. Jesus the rabbi is correcting this line of thinking.

Jesus the rabbi was using the woman’s remark to instruct the crowd that one is not blessed because of a family relationship, in this case the example was Jesus’ mother, but because one hears the word of God (you will concieve in your womb and bear a son) and obeys (Let it be done to me). The inference is that they should be like his Mother, and then they will be similarly blessed.

Remember that in the Davidic Kingdom, the mother of the king was the queen. Jews have always held family lineage in high regard, even imputing sin from one generation to the next. Look how many geneologies are in the Bible - so-and-so begat so-and-so. Geneology and family lineage was extremely important in Jewish culture, so much so that Matthew goes into great detail to prove that Jesus was a descendent of King David and therefor a rightful heir to the throne. Luke likewise goes into great detail to prove that Jesus was a descendent of Adam, the perfect man. John simply states…

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God
(John 1:1)

That’s it. That’s his geneology. Jesus is God. God doesn’t have a geneology. God started the whole thing.

The point is that as a Jew, the woman is bringing up Mary’s maternal relationship to Jesus as a reason for her blessedness. We have to always remember that the theater upon which the Gospels are played out is Israel, and the players are all Jewish. We have to always read scripture through a Jewish lense. Since Jesus is the King of the Jews and the Queen in the Davidic Kingdom was usually the Mother of the King, the woman states that Jesus’ Mother is blessed, not only to have carried Jesus but to be his Queen.

Jesus tells the woman that it is not the genetic, family relationship which makes one blessed, or one’s nationality, but the fact that one hears the word of God and obeys it, and in so doing he points the woman back to His Mother as the perfect example.

Three verses later, with the same crowd gathered around him, Jesus tells the crowd, “There is something greater than Solomon here” (cf Luke 11:31) and, “There is something greater than Jonah here” (cf Luke 11:33). Jesus is proclaiming himself to be a king greater than Solomon, and a prophet greater than Jonah who brought a mighty nation and its king to repentance.

Jesus simply points out that it isn’t a family relationship or nationality which matters to God. Who your mother or father or son or daughter is does not make you pleasing in God’s sight. Jesus tells the crowd that what makes you blessed is your personal behavior, hearing the word of God and obeying it.

Mary heard the word of God and obeyed it.

Mary said, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.” Then the angel departed from her. (Luke 1:38)

Luke 11:27-28 points us to Mary as the perfect example.

-Tim-

 

[JRKH]

In no way does that quote say that Mary should be rejected, Christ is simply showing what made Her blessed.

Remeber Elizabeth said “Blessed is she who believed what was spoken to her”

“The Virgin Mary fulfilled the will of the Father; she accepted the divine message; conceived by faith, and was chosen to give birth to the Saviour of us all; she was created by Christ before Christ was made man in her. Mary fulfilled the will of the Father perfectly. Thus, that she is a disciple of Christ is more important that the fact that she is his mother; she is more blessed because she is a disciple of Christ than because she is his mother. Mary is blessed because before she gave birth to the Master she carried him in her soul.”
(St. Augustine, Sermones, 25,7)

It simply points to the “higher” form of her being Blessed. It in no way takes away from Her being Blessed among women, and Her motherhood. Remember when Elizabeth, blessed Her among women and the fruit of her womb she was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Edit: It is also I believe that Mary wished to be hidden, and I believe God kept the knowledge of Her for Himself. Christ also fostered Her humility! She is “Mother hidden”

In regards to the bolded comment above…

Has any Catholic on this thread said that Mary should be rejected???
I have seen nothing of the sort in any of the posts I’ve read - though admittedly I have not read them all…

I’m confused.

Peace
James

 

[TrueLight]

It is a correction of the Jewish misconcpetion that your geneology or nationality is what makes you pleasing to God, that just because you are the son of someone who was righteous does not make you righteous and just because your son is someone important, that doesn’t mean that you are pleasing to God. Just because you are from the tribe of Judah doesn’t mean that you are automatically favored by God. That is what the Jews believed. Jesus the rabbi is correcting this line of thinking.

Jesus the rabbi was using the woman’s remark to instruct the crowd that one is not blessed because of a family relationship, in this case the example was Jesus’ mother, but because one hears the word of God (you will concieve in your womb and bear a son) and obeys (Let it be done to me). The inference is that they should be like his Mother, and then they will be similarly blessed.

Remember that in the Davidic Kingdom, the mother of the king was the queen. Jews have always held family lineage in high regard, even imputing sin from one generation to the next. Look how many geneologies are in the Bible - so-and-so begat so-and-so. Geneology and family lineage was extremely important in Jewish culture, so much so that Matthew goes into great detail to prove that Jesus was a descendent of King David and therefor a rightful heir to the throne. Luke likewise goes into great detail to prove that Jesus was a descendent of Adam, the perfect man. John simply states…

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God
(John 1:1)

That’s it. That’s his geneology. Jesus is God. God doesn’t have a geneology. God started the whole thing.

The point is that as a Jew, the woman is bringing up Mary’s maternal relationship to Jesus as a reason for her blessedness. We have to always remember that the theater upon which the Gospels are played out is Israel, and the players are all Jewish. We have to always read scripture through a Jewish lense. Since Jesus is the King of the Jews and the Queen in the Davidic Kingdom was usually the Mother of the King, the woman states that Jesus’ Mother is blessed, not only to have carried Jesus but to be his Queen.

Jesus tells the woman that it is not the genetic, family relationship which makes one blessed, or one’s nationality, but the fact that one hears the word of God and obeys it, and in so doing he points the woman back to His Mother as the perfect example.

Three verses later, with the same crowd gathered around him, Jesus tells the crowd, “There is something greater than Solomon here” (cf Luke 11:31) and, “There is something greater than Jonah here” (cf Luke 11:33). Jesus is proclaiming himself to be a king greater than Solomon, and a prophet greater than Jonah who brought a mighty nation and its king to repentance.

Jesus simply points out that it isn’t a family relationship or nationality which matters to God. Who your mother or father or son or daughter is does not make you pleasing in God’s sight. Jesus tells the crowd that what makes you blessed is your personal behavior, hearing the word of God and obeying it.

-Tim-

Thanks Tim! This is a really good explanation. I’ve heard this verse brought up before, so I was pleased to see the explanation and I admit I was also pleased to see you answer levelly without any accusations.

 

[jwinch2]

Thanks! This is a really good explanation.

Agreed. That was well done.

 

[TimothyH]

Thanks Tim! This is a really good explanation. I’ve heard this verse brought up before, so I was pleased to see the explanation and I admit I was also pleased to see you answer levelly without any accusations.

Agreed. That was well done.

You know, that’s important to me. Thank you for taking the time to say so.

CAF can be a minefield of emotion but 1 Peter 3:15-16 really isn’t a suggestion. We have all missed the mark at times.

Make no mistake though. I belive Mary converts sinners by showering grace upon them when she sees fit, because it is her son’s will that sinners be converted, and she obeys her son. Any sinner who is converted as miraculously as I was should seriously consider that their conversion was because Mary decided that they would be converted and brought to a state of sanctifying grace, and they should seriously consider consecration to Mary as an act of thanksgiving and means to serve Jesus.

And so the invitation is there, but it is just that, an invitation. The pool is big and the water is warm. Come on in.

-Tim-

 

[ConstantineTG]

“Nothing is to much when it comes to honoring the Immaculate Virgin” [1413]
(St. Faustina)

“Jesus was the first to honor her as His very Mother and we must imitate Him also in this. We will never, as much as we try, love Her with a love equal to that which Jesus loves her.”
(St. Maximilian Kolbe)

So why so much “caution” when speaking of devotion to Mary. It is not to be put on the same level as the saints because of Her complete link to Christ. The Saints say it can never be to much!

Devotion to Her should be next to Christ!

I will have to disagree with Sister Faustina. There are people who take devotion too extreme that it crosses the line onto worship. I know we are always on the defensive when Protestants accuse us of Marian worship, but I’ve seen cases when even myself I can’t tell if its just adoration and veneration and not worship.