Devotion to Mary

[edwinG]

Catholic Tom:

Thats funny, because you talked about Mary in the background, etc, yet a picture with Mary Crowned as **queen **doesn’t bother you. In fact this picture, of all pictures, affirmed in your mind that your post was what Christ wanted you to witness to us???

Hi Tom,
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.
Revelation 19:16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
That is not a picture of a queen, That is a picture of a **King. **Mary is not the queen of heaven. Mary is a King. Jesus is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.
Mary the queen of heaven is someone else, not Christ’s mother
Walk in love
edwinG.

 

[edwinG]

Lorarose:

Mary does not perform miracles of her own accord just like the apostles did not perform miracles of their own accord.

The power is God’s and we can clearly see that God often works through His creatures.

Hi Lorarose,
Read all of the posts. The glory is given to mary for leading for healing and for signs and wonders. Ie weeping.
I am so pleased you can see the wrong in giving glory to mary for these things. Only God, He alone.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Zooey:

I think that it is scandalous to compare a disgraceful character like Benny Hinn to the Lord Jesus’ beloved mother Mary.
My reaction to Benny Hin is disgust, regardless of what he does or does not say. And I wish you would apologize to those of us who have been scandalized by this “comparison”.

Hi Zooey,
It makes my heart sing to think that you are scandalized when someone else takes Christ’s glory. To call anyone disgraceful is to make judgment. I have never heard Benny Hinn try to take the glory from Christ, in fact he seems to be very sure it is Christ’s healing power. The comparison is not between Mary and Benny Hinn but the comparison is between your actions of giving the glory to mary and how you would feel if Benny Hinn tried to claim the glory, which he doesn’t.
I apologise to you if my sentence structure is ambiguous.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Lost&Found:

Hi Edwin: To all of your questions “I’m I saying this, I’m I saying that?..” - My answer is no, I’m just saying what I’m saying, not what you are suggesting that I’m saying.
Look Edwin, I often talk with Catholics at my parish and they say to me “Naw, I don’t pray to Mary, I go directly to God.” And guess what? Why would I have a problem with that! Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s perfectly acceptable for any Catholic.
In your own case Edwin, you can cut everything out you don’t feel is necessary. Maybe keep stripping stuff away until you’ve left Jesus standing around by Himself, if that makes you feel less of a threat to Him.
But in my own case, I see an ideal role model who says “Yes” to God when He asks something of her and in my own mind it’s quite clear that she glorifies our God. So, when in two of the Gospels it is said " Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself", I like to feel that I am accepting all of God’s many gifts to do just that. Hope that clarifies for you.

Hi Lost&Found,
Thank you for you kind post. Yes I understand where you are at.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[2Rollin_Stoned]

edwinG:

Hi Tom,
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.
Revelation 19:16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
That is not a picture of a queen, That is a picture of a **King. **Mary is not the queen of heaven. Mary is a King. Jesus is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.
Mary the queen of heaven is someone else, not Christ’s mother
Walk in love
edwinG.

EdwinG,

You don’t know what you’re talking about but you just made my case for the very thing that you are arguing against.

If Jesus is indeed King of Kings and as Messiah the king of the Jews from the line of David (go ahead and nod your head because you know I’m right about this. You just quoted the passage that says so) then Mary is indeed a queen and as such an intercessor.

Do your homework and research the Hebrew title “Giberah”.

How did they get their position?
Who were they?
What did they do?

Mary is Jesus mother. Once you get that part all the rest will fall Biblically right into place.

BTW: Don’t talk that stuff about the “other queen of heaven” because if you look in the OT you’ll find that a pagan king also took the title of “King of Kings”

 

[edwinG]

Axion:

.

As for supernatural work “by their own hand”, we see the apostles performing healing and other miracles in Acts 5 - 10, without pronouncing specific formulas saying “This healing is from God, not me.” The same goes for Moses. We even find Peter’s handkerchief curing people!

I was just responding to your point that Mary is always invisible in the background.
And like Eve, Mary’s appearance in scripture is pivotal. I think some people believe that just because, say Paul, wrote a lot, that makes him more important than others.

No. You are making assumptions. Many people go through **periods **of spiritual dryness. This can be known as “The Dark Night of the Soul” discussed by St John of the Cross. Even Jesus had a period when He felt separation from God. As did the Apostles. Not everything is always happy-clappy.

Do you not know that the charge that the pharisees made against Jesus - was that His healing power came from evil spirits?

Jesus says this:
Mark3 25-26 "If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come."

In all the approved Marian appearances She calls for prayer and repentance, and for people to follow Jesus. As we can see from the above, Satan cannot do this.

How else are we told in the Bible to discern whether things are of God or not?

1 Cor 12.3: You know when you were pagans somehow or other you were influenced by and led astray to mute idols. Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says “Jesus be cursed”. and no one can say Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit."

At Guadeloupe Mary proclaimed Her Son, Jesus, as Lord. At Fatima, She gave the Children a new prayer: "Oh my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need."

The teachings, messages, and also the fruits of the approved Marian Apparitions have been overwhelmingly for good, for healing, spiritual growth and the increase of Faith.

Hi Axion,
Thank you for you long and good post. We are at opposite ends and I can only go by scripture and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Mary the mother of Jesus in heaven is not a Queen but a King. There is no sex in the resurrection. The whole line of argument is out the window.
Pivotal Role
This is the pivotal role.
Mark 9:12 Then He answered and told them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and restores all things.”
Matthew 11:10 For this is he of whom it is written,
"Behold I send My messenger before Your face
who will prepare Your way before You
11 Assuredly I say to you among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater then he.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force.
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
John set up the kingdoms and until Christ crushed satan those who wanted to enter the kingdom of heaven had to take it by force. Only the ones prepared to really fight managed to enter. ( until now) Now we can walk right in thanks to Christ.
Mary wasnt pivotal. Mary is a blessed and honored servant of God whose reward in heaven is a kingship.
Would you please comment on this
Numbers 16:10 "and that He has brought you near to Himself, you and all your brethren, the sons of Levi with you? And are you seeking the priesthood also?
Note these men lead by Korah, Dathan, Abirim and On were killed by God for seeking work above their station, ie seeking the priesthood. That is Christ’s work, a Priest forever, not the work of Mary. For her to attempt this would lead to her death.
None of the apostles or Moses or Elijah or anyone is doing the work of the Priest ( Christ Himself) now, except mary. Clearly this is so so so wrong. The members of the Roman Catholic faith are the witnesses to her healings, so it is not the real mary. Mary the mother of Christ would not do this.
Every hypocrit speaks what is necessary at the time. That mary does these wonders is not to be wondered at. The evil spirits do have awesome powers, witness what happens in the Revelation.
I cant change my feelings that mary is not Mary, the blessed mother of Christ. Scripture can point me away from this view, nor is the Holy Spirit leading me away from this point of view either.
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

2Rollin'Stoned:

EdwinG,

You don’t know what you’re talking about but you just made my case for the very thing that you are arguing against.

If Jesus is indeed King of Kings and as Messiah the king of the Jews from the line of David (go ahead and nod your head because you know I’m right about this. You just quoted the passage that says so) then Mary is indeed a queen and as such an intercessor.

Do your homework and research the Hebrew title “Giberah”.

How did they get their position?
Who were they?
What did they do?

Mary is Jesus mother. Once you get that part all the rest will fall Biblically right into place.

BTW: Don’t talk that stuff about the “other queen of heaven” because if you look in the OT you’ll find that a pagan king also took the title of “King of Kings”

Hi 2Rollin’Stoned,
I understand that in the resurrection there is no sex. Jesus is not King of Kings and King of Queens and Lord of Lords and Lord or Ladies and of men and women. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
I dont see a queen in heaven.
Can you show me scripture where it states that there are men and ladies and childbirth in heaven?
walk in love
edwinG

 

[2Rollin_Stoned]

edwinG:

Hi 2Rollin’Stoned,
I understand that in the resurrection there is no sex. Jesus is not King of Kings and King of Queens and Lord of Lords and Lord or Ladies and of men and women. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
I dont see a queen in heaven.
Can you show me scripture where it states that there are men and ladies and childbirth in heaven?
walk in love
edwinG

Your answer makes absolutely no sense whatever.
We aren’t talking about the Resurrection…we are discussing that you don’t know what you’re talking about and that you don’t know who the Giberah is. Did Mary birth Jesus or not?
If you say no then you can stop posting because you disagree with the Bible you say is the source of all you believe.

 

[Lorarose]

Edwin has begun to babble nonsense.

 

[Axion]

edwinG:

Hi Axion,
Thank you for you long and good post. We are at opposite ends and I can only go by scripture and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Mary the mother of Jesus in heaven is not a Queen but a King. There is no sex in the resurrection. The whole line of argument is out the window.

Hello edwinG,
I’ve not heard this argument before. But what Jesus teaches is that after the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. He says nothing about abolishing the genders of male and female.

Pivotal Role
This is the pivotal role.
Mark 9:12 Then He answered and told them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and restores all things.”
Matthew 11:…
11 Assuredly I say to you among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater then he.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force…

John set up the kingdoms and until Christ crushed satan those who wanted to enter the kingdom of heaven had to take it by force. Only the ones prepared to really fight managed to enter. ( until now) Now we can walk right in thanks to Christ.
Mary wasnt pivotal. Mary is a blessed and honored servant of God whose reward in heaven is a kingship.

Indeed John the Baptist had a very important role and is honoured for this within the Catholic Church. You will see John the Baptist and Mary flanking Christ on many roods and other scenes of the sacrifice of Christ or the Last Judgement.

However Mary’s role is that prophecied in the protogospel in Genesis 3, as the Woman who will be at enmity with Satan and whose seed, Jesus, will crush him. Here Adam and Eve are directly counterposed with Jesus and Mary in the history of redemption. That is a pivotal role.

Would you please comment on this
Numbers 16:10 "and that He has brought you near to Himself, you and all your brethren, the sons of Levi with you? And are you seeking the priesthood also?
Note these men lead by Korah, Dathan, Abirim and On were killed by God for seeking work above their station, ie seeking the priesthood.

This is the story of the rebellion of Korah. But Korah and his allies were punished for **Rebellion ** against the order set up by the Lord. They weren’t punished so much for seeking the priesthood of Aaron since they were the Levites and already priests. (Num 16.8) Their issue was the leadership of Moses and Aaron. They were arguing for a return to Egypt! God was going to punish ALL their supporters until Moses interceded.

That is Christ’s work, a Priest forever, not the work of Mary. For her to attempt this would lead to her death.
None of the apostles or Moses or Elijah or anyone is doing the work of the Priest ( Christ Himself) now, except mary. Clearly this is so so so wrong.

You are defining healing, miracles, and giving prophecies as “the work of the Priest (alone)” and saying that the ONLY priest in this age is Jesus.

Not so. We are ALL priests in the age of Jesus Kingdom, and we are told in scripture that prophecy, seeing visions, healings and miracles will **continue ** after Jesus resurrection. In fact we are told that even greater deeds will be done. So Mary is in no way usurping the role of her Son by miraculous intervention.

The members of the Roman Catholic faith are the witnesses to her healings, so it is not the real mary. Mary the mother of Christ would not do this.

I believe she would. As angels have come from heaven and performed miracles and spoken prophecy. God sends who He wills, prophets angels, Saints, Mother Mary.

Mary’s apparitions are for Christ and building the faith.

Be careful of ignoring messages from God because they don’t fit in with your preconceptions…:

*Matthew 23:37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often have i wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

Matthew 11.21 “Woe to you, Chora’zin! woe to you, Beth-sa’ida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 23 And you, Caper’na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”

 

[mrS4ntA]

edwinG:

Hi Tom,
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.
Revelation 19:16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
That is not a picture of a queen, That is a picture of a **King. **Mary is not the queen of heaven. Mary is a King. Jesus is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.
Mary the queen of heaven is someone else, not Christ’s mother
Walk in love
edwinG.

Christ is the King of Heaven; Mary is His mother; ergo, Mary is the Queen-Mother i.e. Queen of Heaven. What’s so difficult to udnerstand here?

What I’d warrant I’d need to emphasize here, is that Mary’s title is dependant upon Christ (as you see above). Mary is Queen because Christ is King, so Mary is no Queen of her own accord, but because of Christ’s own glory…

If you can’t even see this simple truth, i don’t know what will …

 

[Catholic_Tom]

Hi Edwin, with all due respect I think you have hijacked my thread. I wasn’t looking for the Protestant view on Mary but if I was I’d go looking on a protestant forum.

I am satisfied with the answers I’ve gotten though with my initial objection. It’s important to keep everything Mary in light of Jesus, and it all makes sense. All the Glory is his and Mary Maginifies this.

I like the signature of the last poster by Maximillian Kolbe…I think it said it best…

 

[mrS4ntA]

Catholic Tom:

Hi Edwin, with all due respect I think you have hijacked my thread. I wasn’t looking for the Protestant view on Mary but if I was I’d go looking on a protestant forum.

I am satisfied with the answers I’ve gotten though with my initial objection. It’s important to keep everything Mary in light of Jesus, and it all makes sense. All the Glory is his and Mary Maginifies this.

I like the signature of the last poster by Maximillian Kolbe…I think it said it best…

Why, thank you …

St Maximillian Kolbe was popularly known for his strong and, at times, rather stern voice in advocating Marian devotions.Kinda a shocker, so I like him …

 

[edwinG]

2Rollin'Stoned:

Your answer makes absolutely no sense whatever.
We aren’t talking about the Resurrection…we are discussing that you don’t know what you’re talking about and that you don’t know who the Giberah is. Did Mary birth Jesus or not?
If you say no then you can stop posting because you disagree with the Bible you say is the source of all you believe.

Hi 2 Rollin’Stoned,
Which part of my answer can’t you understand? Let me explain it to you. From there we can move to a resolution.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[Church_Militant]

edwinG:

Hi 2 Rollin’Stoned,
Which part of my answer can’t you understand? Let me explain it to you. From there we can move to a resolution.
walk in love
edwinG

In reading over the latest posts and especially the one above by Catholic Tom on threadjacking, I’m going to drop this discussion with you EdwinG because it interferes with this thread’s flow.
This thread link is closer to the topic that you seem to want to discuss, so I recommend that you move your posts there and we can post answers there. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=40979

As for Tom’s original question:
Tom,
I don’t see all that conflict because I am always reminded of what the Blessed Virgin told the servants at the wedding feast in John 2. Remember? “Do whatever he tells you.” And all the Marian devotion of Catholics all over the world is based upon that very idea. If you look into all the Marian apparitions that are recorded (even some of the newer ones that are not approved by the church), the message is always the same. Repent, turn to my son and do whatever he tells you. (in a nutshell).

I see the Blessed Virgin as the first Christian since she really was the very first human to believe in Christ and she expressed it there in her fiat. In the end we should be just like her. “Be it done unto me according thy word” much the same as Jesus in Gethsemane said “Not my will but thine be done”. Our love for Mary takes nothing at all away from Jesus, for we love her and worship Him just as she did. It’s still hard to get your mind around what it must have been like to hold almighty God in your arms as she did…and again when they removed Him from that cross.

There is and always will be more to the Blessed Virgin than meets the eye…but in reading the Bible carefully and considering her prayerfully you get a sense of just how special she really is. All my love for her just makes me wanna be more like her and to love Our Lord all the more. She inspires me to do whatever He tells me.
Is this any help at all?

 

[edwinG]

Axion:

Hello edwinG,
I’ve not heard this argument before. But what Jesus teaches is that after the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. He says nothing about abolishing the genders of male and female.

Hi Axion,
I like your posts as they really make me think and stretch me. Thank you. The scripture says they will be like the angels. Are there any female angels? Do you believe that we will be sexual in the kingdom of heaven and have children. ( obviously out of wedlock or if not what reasons can you give for the retention of “men” and “women” and the inherent dangers.)

.

However Mary’s role is that prophecied in the protogospel in Genesis 3, as the Woman who will be at enmity with Satan and whose seed, Jesus, will crush him. Here Adam and Eve are directly counterposed with Jesus and Mary in the history of redemption. That is a pivotal role.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I can’t add any more to that which I have posted on this, that scripture says the no one born of woman is greater than John, that he established the kingdom of heaven and restored all things. Personally, I cant see any one being greater than that apart from Jesus. But I have no further scripture to submit. Yes Mary’s role was truly a blessed role.

This is the story of the rebellion of Korah. But Korah and his allies were punished for **Rebellion **against the order set up by the Lord. They weren’t punished so much for seeking the priesthood of Aaron since they were the Levites and already priests. (Num 16.8) Their issue was the leadership of Moses and Aaron. They were arguing for a return to Egypt! God was going to punish ALL their supporters until Moses interceded.

Numbers 16:10 “… and are you seeking the priesthood also”

You are defining healing, miracles, and giving prophecies as “the work of the Priest (alone)” and saying that the ONLY priest in this age is Jesus.

Not so. We are ALL priests in the age of Jesus Kingdom, and we are told in scripture that prophecy, seeing visions, healings and miracles will **continue **after Jesus resurrection. In fact we are told that even greater deeds will be done. So Mary is in no way usurping the role of her Son by miraculous intervention.

Jesus is the only eternal priest,a priest forever as He is the only one with an eternal body to this time. All the others are resting. We have covered that in scripture a couple of messages ago.
The greater deeds will be done by those here on earth.

I believe she would. As angels have come from heaven and performed miracles and spoken prophecy. God sends who He wills, prophets angels, Saints, Mother Mary.

Mary’s apparitions are for Christ and building the faith.

Be careful of ignoring messages from God because they don’t fit in with your preconceptions…:

*Matthew 23:37. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often have i wanted to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

Matthew 11.21 “Woe to you, Chora’zin! woe to you, Beth-sa’ida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 23 And you, Caper’na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”

I thank you for your warning and will let it rest in my mind. I certainly have a very healthy holy fear and reverence for the Lord.
Can you name these angels who have come to earth doing miracles or do they keep their names in the background.

Here is a question, Christ said He only did what He saw the Father do and in the same way. I take it that God the Father heals. Now because Christ has done such obedient work for the Father His name, Jesus Christ is to be honoured so now God heals in the name of Jesus. Now you want me to believe that God is still healing, but in the name of Mary or do you want me to believe that Christ is going against His Father and saying No let it be done in Mary’s name. Can you explain this for me please?
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[2Rollin_Stoned]

edwinG:

Hi 2 Rollin’Stoned,
Which part of my answer can’t you understand? Let me explain it to you. From there we can move to a resolution.
walk in love
edwinG

In reading over the latest posts and especially the one above by Catholic Tom on threadjacking, I’m going to drop this discussion with you EdwinG because it interferes with this thread’s flow.
This thread link is closer to the topic that you seem to want to discuss, so I recommend that you move your posts there and we can post answers there. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=40979

As for Tom’s original question:
Tom,
I don’t see all that conflict because I am always reminded of what the Blessed Virgin told the servants at the wedding feast in John 2. Remember? “Do whatever he tells you.” And all the Marian devotion of Catholics all over the world is based upon that very idea. If you look into all the Marian apparitions that are recorded (even some of the newer ones that are not approved by the church), the message is always the same. Repent, turn to my son and do whatever he tells you. (in a nutshell).

I see the Blessed Virgin as the first Christian since she really was the very first human to believe in Christ and she expressed it there in her fiat. In the end we should be just like her. “Be it done unto me according thy word” much the same as Jesus in Gethsemane said “Not my will but thine be done”. Our love for Mary takes nothing at all away from Jesus, for we love her and worship Him just as she did. It’s still hard to get your mind around what it must have been like to hold almighty God in your arms as she did…and again when they removed Him from that cross.

There is and always will be more to the Blessed Virgin than meets the eye…but in reading the Bible carefully and considering her prayerfully you get a sense of just how special she really is. All my love for her just makes me wanna be more like her and to love Our Lord all the more. She inspires me to do whatever He tells me.
Is this any help at all?

 

[edwinG]

mrS4ntA:

Christ is the King of Heaven; Mary is His mother; ergo, Mary is the Queen-Mother i.e. Queen of Heaven. What’s so difficult to udnerstand here?

What I’d warrant I’d need to emphasize here, is that Mary’s title is dependant upon Christ (as you see above). Mary is Queen because Christ is King, so Mary is no Queen of her own accord, but because of Christ’s own glory…

If you can’t even see this simple truth, i don’t know what will …

Hi mrS4ntA,
Sorry to see the glum smiley.
A Queen is a title for a lady. I dont see any sex in heaven. We will all be like the angels. Scripture. Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Some of us will be Kings and some of us Lords and many more will have other titles and work in the kingdom of God.
But there is no sex. That ceases for us after the resurrection. See Christ’s titles. Mary will be a King.
Why cant you be a smiley with Mary’s role as King in the kingdom of God.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Catholic Tom:

Hi Edwin, with all due respect I think you have hijacked my thread. I wasn’t looking for the Protestant view on Mary but if I was I’d go looking on a protestant forum.

I am satisfied with the answers I’ve gotten though with my initial objection. It’s important to keep everything Mary in light of Jesus, and it all makes sense. All the Glory is his and Mary Maginifies this.

I like the signature of the last poster by Maximillian Kolbe…I think it said it best…

Hi Catholic Tom,
My apologies for hi-jacking your thread. I have been unmindful.
I ask your forgiveness.
I will leave this thread
walk in love
edwinG

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

edwinG:

Hi mrS4ntA,
Sorry to see the glum smiley.
A Queen is a title for a lady. I dont see any sex in heaven. We will all be like the angels. Scripture. Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Some of us will be Kings and some of us Lords and many more will have other titles and work in the kingdom of God.
But there is no sex. That ceases for us after the resurrection. See Christ’s titles. Mary will be a King.
Why cant you be a smiley with Mary’s role as King in the kingdom of God.
walk in love
edwinG

http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/smiley16_surprise.gifWhat?Are you saying we all turn male in heavenhttp://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/smiley20_ooh.gif