Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

[preV2tradcath]

Here is one of my favorite quotes from St. Louis de Montfort:

1. “This one and that one were born in her.” According to the explanation of some of the Fathers, the first man born of Mary is the God-man, Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ, the head of mankind, is born of her, the predestinate, who are members of this head, must also as a necessary consequence be born of her. One and the same mother does not give birth to the head without the members nor to the members without the head, for these would be monsters in the order of nature. In the order of grace likewise the head and the members are born of the same mother. If a member of the mystical body of Christ, that is, one of the predestinate, were born of a mother other than Mary who gave birth to the head, he would not be one of the predestinate, nor a member of Jesus Christ, but a monster in the order of grace.

 

[bear06]

" For this reason, the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adiutrix, and Mediatrix. This however it to be so understood that it takes nothing away, or adds nothing to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator. For no creature can ever be put on the same level with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer…"Lumen Gentium

It doesn’t say she is mediatrix of Graces and that is the strongest reference on the site you listed. All the others were either letters or Encyclicals. All of these references are part of the ordinary magisterium which are fallible. Mediatrix of Graces and Co redemptrix are nothing but theological opinions that are not Church teaching just like limbo.

This is getting old. You don’t understand the organs of infallibility of which “Ordinary Magisterium” is one of. I provided a nice little link from the CE on infallibility.

Also, it would appear that the other link I gave on the teachings on Mary were also ignored. I’ll start listing th quotes.

Church Teaching on Mary as Mediatrix of (All) Graces
Compiled by Fr. William G. Most

1. Leo XIII, Encyclical, Supremi Apostolatus officio. Sept 1, 1883. *** 16, 1883. 1113.

We judge nothing more powerful and better for this purpose than by religion and devotion to deserve well of the great Mother of God, the Virgin Mary, who is the treasurer [sequestra] of our peace with God, and the mediatrix [administra] of graces…

1. Leo XIII, Encyclical, Superiore anno, August 30, 1884. *** 17, 1884. 49.

… may He hear the prayers of those who beseech through her, whom He Himself willed to be the mediatrix [administram] of graces.
3) Leo XIII, Encyclical, Octobri mense adventante, Sept 22, 1891, *** 24, 1891, 196.

… it is right to say, that nothing at all of that very great treasury of all grace which the Lord brought us–for ‘grace and truth came through Jesus Christ’ [Jn 1.17]–nothing is imparted to us except through Mary, since God so wills, so that just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother.

1. Leo XIII, Encyclical, Iucunda semper, Sept 8, 1984. *** 27, 1894. 179.

… when He [the Father] has been invoked with excellent prayers, our humble voice turns to Mary; in accordance with no other law than that law of conciliation and petition which was expressed as follows by St. Bernardine of Siena : 'Every grace that is communicated to this world has a threefold course. For by excellent order, it is dispensed from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, from the Virgin to us.’ [Internal quote from S. Bernardine, Sermon on Nativity of B. V. M. n. 6.]

1. Leo XIII, Encyclical, Adiutricem populi, Sept 5, 1895, *** 28, 1895, 130.

For thereupon, by divine plan, she so began to watch over the Church, so to be near and to favor us as a Mother, that she who had been the minister [administra] of the mystery of human redemption, was equally the minister [administra] of the grace to be given from it for all time, practically immeasurable power being given to her.

1. Leo XIII, Encyclical, Diuturni temporis spatium, Sept 5, 1898, *** 31, 1898, 146.

For from her, as in a must abundant conduit, the drafts of heavenly graces are given: ‘… in her hands are the treasures of the mercies of the Lord’; for ‘God wills that she be the principle of all good things.’ [Internal quotes are from St. John Damascene, Series I De Nativitate Virginis and St. Irenaeus, Against Valentinus III. 33.].

1. Leo XIII, Encyclical, Diuturni temporis spatium, Sept 5, 1898, *** 31, 1898, 147.

**‘God wills her **to be the principle of all good things.’ [Citing St. John Damascene, Series I De nativitate Virginis.]

1. Leo XIII, Parta humano generi, Apostolic Letter, Sept 8, 1901, *** 34, 1901, 195.

So may the most powerful Virgin Mother, who once ‘cooperated in love that the faithful might be born in the Church’, **be even now the means and mediatrix of our salvation. **[Citing St. Augustine, De sancta Virginitate 6.]

1. St. Pius X, Encyclical, Ad diem illum, Feb. 2, 1904, AAS 36, 1904. 453-54.

Hence that never dissociated manner of life and labors of the Mother and the Son… . there stood by the Cross of Jesus His Mother, not merely occupied in looking at the dreadful sight, but even rejoicing that ‘her only Son was being offered for the salvation of the human race; and so did she suffer, with Him, that if it had been possible, she would have much more gladly suffered herself all the torments that her Son underwent’ [St. Bonaventure I. Sent. d, 48, ad Litt. dub. 4]. Now from this common sharing of will and suffering between Christ and Mary, **she ‘merited to become most worthily the Reparatrix of the lost world’ **[Eadmer, De Excellentia Virginis Mariae, 9] and therefore Dispensatrix of all the gifts which Jesus gained for us by His Death and by His Blood… But Mary as St. Bernard fittingly remarks [De Aquaeductu 4] is the ‘channel’ or, even, the neck, through which the body is joined to the head, and likewise through which the head exerts its power and strength on the body. 'For she is the neck of our Head, by which all spiritual gifts are communicated to His Mystical Body.’ [St. Bernardine of Siena, Quadrag. De Evangelio aeterno, Sermo X, a. 3. c. 3.]

1. St. Pius X, Litterae Apostolicae, August 27, 1910, AAS 2, 1910, 901.

We, to whom nothing is dearer than that the devotion of the faithful towards the Virgin of Lourdes, the treasurer [sequestra] of all graces, be more and more increased, think we should gladly assent to these wishes.

Continued…

 

[bear06]

…continued
11) Benedict XV, Litterae Apostolicae, Inter Sodalicia, March 22, 1918, AAS 10, 1918, 182.

… the fact that she was with Him crucified and dying, was in accord with the divine plan. For with her suffering and dying Son, Mary endured suffering and almost death. She gave up her Mother’s rights over her Son to procure the salvation of mankind, and to appease the divine justice, she, as much as she could, immolated her Son, so that one can truly affirm that together with Christ she has redeemed the human race. But if for this reason, every kind of grace we receive from the treasury of the redemption is ministered as it were through the hands of the same Sorrowful Virgin, everyone can see that a holy death should be expected from her, since it is precisely by this gift that the work of the Redemption is effectively and permanently completed in each one … further, there is a most constant belief among the faithful, proved by long experience, that as many as employ the same Virgin as Patron, will not at all perish forever.

1. Benedict XV, Encyclical, Fausto appetente die, June 29, 1921, AAS 13, 1921, 334.

For he [St. Dominic] knew well that Mary … has such influence with her divine Son, that He confers whatever of graces He confers on humans, does so always with her as minister and decision-maker [administra et arbitra].**
13) Pius XI, Apostolic Letter, Galliam, Ecclesiae filiam, March 2, 1922, AAS 14, 1922 186.

She, the Virgin Mother, [is] the treasurer [sequestra] of all graces with God

.

1. Pius XI, Apostolic Letter, Exstat in civitate, Feb. 1, 1924, AAS 16 1924, 152.

It is clear that many Roman Pontiffs … have stirred up devotion among the nations to the most clement Mother, the Virgin Mary, the Consoler of the afflicted, and the treasurer [sequestra] of all graces with God

.
15) Pius XI, Apostolic Letter, Cognitum sane, Jan 14, 1926, AAS 18, 1926, 213.

We, to whom nothing is dearer than that the devotion of the Christian people be aroused more and more towards the Virgin who is the treasurer [sequestra] of all graces with God

, think we should grant these wishes.
16) Pius XI, Encyclical, Ingravescentibus malis, Sept 29, 1937, AAS 29, 1927, 380.

… we know also that all things are imparted to us from God the Greatest and Best, through the hands of the Mother of God.

1. Pius XII, Encyclical, Mystici Corporis, June 29, 1943, AAS 35, 1943, 248.

May she, then, the most holy Mother of all the members of Christ, to whose Immaculate Heart we have confidently consecrated all people … ask earnestly that most abundant streams of graces from the lofty Head may flow down on all the members of the Mystical body without interruption.

1. Pius XII, Radiomessage to Fatima, Bendito seia, May 13, 1946, AAS 38, 19465, 266.

… having been associated, as Mother and Minister, with the King of martyrs in the ineffable work of human Redemption, she is always associated, with a practically measureless power, in the distribution of the graces that derive from the Redemption.

… And her kingdom is as vast as that of her Son and God, since nothing is excluded from her dominion.
19) John XXIII, Epistle to Cardinal Agaganian, Legate to Marian Congress in Saigon, Jan 31, 1959, AAS 51, 1959, 88.

For the faithful can do nothing more fruitful and salutary than to win for themselves the most powerful patronage of the Immaculate Virgin, so that by this most sweet Mother, there may be opened to them, all the treasures of the divine Redemption, and so they may have life, and have it more abundantly. Did not the Lord will that we have everything through Mary?"

Discorsi II, 66.

"From her hands hope for all graces.

1. Vatican II, Lumen gentium ## 61-62.

… in suffering with Him as He died on the cross, she cooperated in the work of the Savior, in an altogether singular way, by obedience, faith, hope, and burning love, to restore supernatural life to souls. As a result she is our Mother in the order of grace. This motherhood of Mary in the economy of grace lasts without interruption, from the consent which she gave in faith at the annunciation, and which she unhesitatingly bore with under the cross, even to the perpetual consummation of all the elect. For after being assumed into heaven, she has not put aside this saving function, but by her manifold intercession, she continues to win the gifts of eternal salvation for us. By her motherly love, she takes care of the brothers of her Son who are still in pilgrimage and in dangers and difficulties, until they be led through to the happy fatherland. For this reason, the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adiutrix, and Mediatrix.

This however it to be so understood that it takes nothing away, or adds nothing to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator. For no creature can ever be put on the same level with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer…

COMMENT: Although Vatican II did not add the words “of all graces,” it added a note on the above passage, in which it refers us to the texts of Leo XIII, Adiutricem populi, St. Pius X, Ad diem illum, Pius XI, Miserentissimus Redemptor, and Pius XII, Radiomessage to Fatima. Leo XIII in that text spoke of her, as we saw above, as having “practically limitless power.” St. Pius X said she was the "dispensatrix of all the gifts, and is the “neck” connecting the Head of the Mystical Body to the Members. But all power flows through the neck. Pius XII said "Her kingdom is as vast as that of her Son and God, since nothing is excluded from her dominion.

 

[nilofc]

Thanks bear06… I hope this settles once and for all the discussion on the teachings of the Church regarding Mary as being the Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of all graces.

 

[bear06]

I also found the same article which but with a little more addition which summarizes a lot of what I have said already:

catholicculture.org/library/most/getchap.cfm?WorkNum=5&ChapNum=14

Further, the Council itself added a note on the above passage, in which it refers us to the texts of Leo XIII, Adiutricem populi, St. Pius X, Ad diem illum, Pius XI, Miserentissimus Redemptor, and Pius XII, Radiomessage to Fatima. Leo XIII in that text spoke of her, as we saw above, as having “practically limitless power.” St. Pius X said she was the "dispensatrix of all the gifts, and is the “neck” connecting the Head of the Mystical Body to the Members. But all power flows through the neck. Pius XII said “Her kingdom is as vast as that of her Son and God, since nothing is excluded from her dominion.”

Still further, no Council has the right to cancel previous papal teaching, especially when that teaching, on the ordinary Magisterium level, is repeated. For such repeated teaching is infallible.

1. The following papal texts cited above speak in varied ways of her as Mediatrix of all graces: Leo XIII, especially texts 3 and 4: “nothing at all of that great treasury of all grace… is imparted to us except through Mary… every grace has a threefold course…” St. Pius X: especially texts 9 and 10: “Dispensatrix of all the gifts.” She is the “neck” of the Mystical Body. Benedict XV text 12: “Whatever of graces He confers… always with her as minister and decision-maker”. Pius XI, texts 13. 14. 15: “treasurer of all graces”. Pius XII, text 18: “nothing is excluded from her dominion”. John XXIII, text 19: “Did not the Lord will that we have everything through Mary?”

**Again, since a doctrine repeatedly taught on the Ordinary Magisterium level is infallibly taught - so many repetitions of this doctrine mark it as infallible. **
3. Protestants object, saying that there is only mediator: 1 Tim 2:5. But they fail to make distinctions. There is only one 1) who is such by very nature, having both divine and human natures; 2) whose work is necessary; 3) who depends on no one else for power. She differs on all three counts. Her whole ability to do anything comes entirely from her Son, and hence we are not contradicting LG §62 which says no creature can be ever counted together with Him."As we said, we reply that her whole ability comes from Him. Really, the Father did not need her at all, except that if He decreed the incarnation, He necessarily decreed a Mother: she was and is that Mother. But everything else in which He has employed her is not needed. Yet:1) if we recall the alternatives of redemption, it is clear that the Father wants everything to be as rich as possible, so that He will not stop with something lesser if there is more than can be done. Really, the incarnation in a palace, without death, would have been infinite in merit and satisfaction, as we saw above. 2) Further the principle of St. Thomas helps here. In I. 19, 5. c. Thomas says that it pleases God to have one thing in place to serve as a title or reason for granting something further, even though that title does not move Him. It is His love of all goodness and good order that leads Him to act this way. Hence too, even though Calvary earned infinite forgiveness and graces, the Father wills to provide titles for giving out these, in the Mass. **Even though He did not need even our Lady, yet He willed to employ her. Even though there is no need of any other saints, in objective or subjective redemption, yet He wills to add them - all to make everything, every title, as rich as possible. **
4. LG speaks of her as taking care of all her children. We are extremely numerous, but yet not infinite in number. Therefore, we are not too numerous for her to see and care for. For her capacity for that infinite vision of God is in proportion to her love on earth, so great that Pius IX, as we saw, said it was so great that “none greater under God can be thought of, and no one but God can comprehend it.”

1. What is the nature of her mediation? Surely, she works by way of intercession. But theologians have also asked: Is she also a physical instrument of grace? Many today, influenced by Protestantism, tend to speak of grace merely as favor, and so say grace is not a thing given. But that would imply Pelagianism, the heresy that says that we can be saved by our own power. For if God merely sits there and smiles at me, and gives me nothing, that would mean that I had to do it by my own power. So even if one uses the word favor, this must always be in mind. **But St. Thomas Aquinas holds that the sacraments are physical instruments of grace **(III. 62. 4). Then the priest giving absolution would be a physical instrument of grace. So all the more she would be such an instrument. If she is, then the course of grace is this: grace begins in the divine nature, passes through the Sacred Humanity of Christ (a physical instrument), then through Mary (also a physical instrument) and then, if a sacrament is being given, through it as a physical instrument also. This seems to be precisely the sense of the text of Leo XIII, Iucunda semper, cited above. It fits well with the words of St. Pius X in Ad diem illum and some other texts we have already cited.

 

[bear06]

Thanks bear06… I hope this settles once and for all the discussion on the teachings of the Church regarding Mary as being the Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of all graces.

I think you’ll see by the time you’ve made 250 posts that this isn’t likely.

 

[bear06]

I found another great article which says many of the things already expressed in this thread.
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0609fea1.asp

And, here’s some more gems from St. Ephrem:

Ephrem the Syrian says, “With the Mediator, you are the Mediatrix of the entire world”; and Antipater of Bostra, a father of the Council of Ephesus, wrote about the Blessed Virgin in the fifth century, “Hail, you who acceptably intercede as Mediatrix for mankind” (qtd. in Gambero, Mary and the Fathers).

If you don’t like the source, take it up with the author.
catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0712fea1.asp

 

[roguejim]

Of course you can approach God without Mary. You can pray directly to God.

There seems to be some disagreement here concerning “…praying directly to God”, I’d say.

“Mary is our necessary and universal Mediatrix. No one can go to the Son but by Mary, just as no one can go to the Father but by the Son. Only through Mary do we reach Jesus, since Jesus came to us only through Mary.”
VEN. WILLIAM JOSEPH CHAMINADE

“To reach the Eternal Father, we must go to Jesus, our Mediator of Redemption. To go to Jesus, we must go to Mary, our Mediatrix of Intercession.”
ST LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“The Child is not found without Mary, His Mother. If, then, it is impossible to separate what God has united, it is also certain that you cannot find Jesus except with Mary and through Mary.”
POPE ST PIUS X

“We must never separate Jesus from Mary; we can go to Him only through her. Without Mary, we would never find Jesus…”
ST PETER JULIAN EYMARD

“He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins. He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven…”
ST BONAVENTURE

“To desire grace without recourse to the Virgin Mother is to desire to fly without wings.”
POPE PIUS XII

 

[jimmy]

I found another great article which says many of the things already expressed in this thread.
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0609fea1.asp

And, here’s some more gems from St. Ephrem:

If you don’t like the source, take it up with the author.
catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0712fea1.asp

Please don’t quote Ephrem if you aren’t going to reference where it is from. St. Ephrem wrote hymns and he used paradox and imagery to portray an idea. He was not teaching dogma. The west likes to cherrypick St. Ephrem quotes as if he supports the modern dogmas. He does not. In fact, he is one of those saints who taught that Mary wasn’t purified until the Annunciation. Please reference the hymn which he wrote this in, otherwise I don’t trust it because I have seen enough distortion of St. Ephrem.

 

[planter654]

nilofc;3497997:

Of course you can approach God without Mary. You can pray directly to God.

There seems to be some disagreement here concerning “…praying directly to God”, I’d say.

“Mary is our necessary and universal Mediatrix. No one can go to the Son but by Mary, just as no one can go to the Father but by the Son. Only through Mary do we reach Jesus, since Jesus came to us only through Mary.”
VEN. WILLIAM JOSEPH CHAMINADE

“To reach the Eternal Father, we must go to Jesus, our Mediator of Redemption. To go to Jesus, we must go to Mary, our Mediatrix of Intercession.”
ST LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“The Child is not found without Mary, His Mother. If, then, it is impossible to separate what God has united, it is also certain that you cannot find Jesus except with Mary and through Mary.”
POPE ST PIUS X

“We must never separate Jesus from Mary; we can go to Him only through her. Without Mary, we would never find Jesus…”
ST PETER JULIAN EYMARD

“He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins. He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven…”
ST BONAVENTURE

“To desire grace without recourse to the Virgin Mother is to desire to fly without wings.”
POPE PIUS XII

How then did the apostles with Jesus ever become apostles, Jesus choosed them without Mary, was he not gone for very long long periods?

I just simple ask? The first commandment is to Worship God and only God. "I am the Lord thy God and there is “no other God” before me, right. So whom do we serve—man or God? A house divided will not stand! You cannot serve two masters. You are neither hot or cold—but luke warm and what did Jesus say “I will spit you out of my mouth”!

Jesus said: Who is my mother, my brother, my sister? Quite simple question, said to a simple crowd. All who believe in me is my brother, my sister, my Mother.

Remember Satan appeared as an angel to Jesus, but Jesus know him. Satan is a great deceiver for he has had "generations, upon generations upon generations of experience, and Satan knows GOD, better than you or I or even the Church!

Satan is a master at it, leading you to believe in the smoothest way! That what you are doing is beautifully, beautiful etc. But what Satan is doing is getting you away from “Worshipping God” only, don’t you think? We are now creating our own gospels of myths for we were not there, or were we?

Believe In God, Worship God, obey his laws, his commandments. Remember Jesus gave and complished all that we need, Where is Jesus right now, we were all told. Jesus is “sitting” at the right hand of the father, is he not? “Accept” his mercy, his forgiveness of you sins, do what he ask of you, believe in HIS WORD!

Changing the True gospels of Jesus Christ, God’s Word. Evening lessing Jesus “GREAT” scarifice for us, the True message. Getting us to go against God and his commandments, trying to do away with God’s laws!

Remember---- Sit here while I make the earth your footstool.
God Bless–peace to you!

 

[fix]

Im sure this has already been posted, but:

Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)

LUMEN GENTIUM

 

[planter654]

Im sure this has already been posted, but:

Devotion to Our Lady is “Necessary” For Salvation----NO! To say yes, I would be calling God a Liar, and Jesus would of suffered in vain! God’s great plan has not ended he is a living God and some are trying very hard to fit this belief of theirs that it is necessary and it is not written. To the point that they are creating their own gospels. Pray for all, pray, trust in God he has a great plan of salvation for all.

We just need to read all the answers on this topic to see great divisions, great damages it is causing. We do not know in truth what happened to our Dear Mother Mary, the apostles do not tell us anything. Just like Moses body was fought over, we have never found. Noe’s ark was never found. Ark of the covanant was never found. Elijah was taken to heaven, for it is written.

Worship God! Accept Jesus Christ word as truth! We are not here to tell God who will seat where in “His Kingdom”, even Jesus gave an example and told us so! Jesus was obedient to Father period!

We are all human beings, everyone on the face of the earth, we will all die in the flesh!

We are all called to Holyness, to become Saints. for our Father is HOLY.There is many saints around us, God knows his own!

Worship God, ask, seek, knock—Like Jesus said----but you do not ask me!! Talk to him and he hears you, serve God, believe, God is not dead. God is the living God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob. God Kingdom has no end. Do not ignore him, simply ask and believe, wait upon the Lord.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Im sure this has already been posted, but:

I believe what you have written ----thank you!

Not “Necessary”—No! God is not a liar! Jesus did not suffer in vain!
If we say we love our Blessed Mary then live it, by your actions, did what Mary did, I believe she lived a very simple life like us— mothers, Her and Joseph cooked, helped the neighbours, took care of the sick, helped give to others, had very hard times etc, etc, suffered the day to day trials with her husband Joseph in providing for their family — Worship God!

Tell me of your devotion, your obedience to God, how you worship our Creator.

What about God? No one, ever speaks of God, why? Even his name is hardly mentioned. We just want to agrue over who is more important and who is seating where in His “KINGDOM”. I ask, does God need to be counscelled, by those whom God has created?

To have such thoughts of who should be greater loved in God’s Kingdom, are we still not living in the sins of the flesh? St. Paul keep your conscienceous clear and your hands busy and you shall do well. Our faith is not about feelings or our thoughts, but about “action”, show your obedience, live out your faith! That is what we learn when reading the Bible from beginning to end, don’t you think?

What is “necessary” for our Salvation? God has told us?

But what I believe, it does not in any lesson all those in the Old Testament who gave their lives, said Yes like Mary to God—aslo lived their lives serving God. Moses spoke with God. Abraham spoke with God!

There is a beginning and there is an end to Satans kingdom. All served God, Noe, Abraham, Moses, Holy Prophets, Elijah who we do know who was taken up to heaven. They are not dead, but all are living in God’s Kingdom, don’t you think. Moses and Elijah met with Jesus on the mountain, and there are wittnessed and written in the gospels by the apostles! Worship God! Leave who will sit where, for Jesus said: My Father has many mansions!

No, one in the Old Testament worshipped God’s servants, but obeyed God’s laws and commandments! We can all read what happened to those who did not obey.

Remember the promise, God’s covenant was given to Abraham, he was going to scarifice his son, to God. Abraham obeyed God and worshipped God and Believe in God’s word onl! We also are all called to Worship and serve God first! Sara also in old age gave birth—Issac–Jacob! God choose the ten tribes of Israel and he will return to them and choose them again. If they were punished because they did not obey God’s word and his commandments, what about us? Can you punish one and not the other? God said: “I am a jealous God”! We have been grafted on because of this and we can be grafted off.

Worship God! We who believe are all “ONE” Holy Family of God. You cannot serve two masters. can you?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

As a Christian travels on the rocky road to attempt holiness, which we are all aiming for, the role of our Lady becomes clearer. For some, devotion to our Lady is necessary, as she keeps one on track to an ever closer union with Christ. (“do what ever he tells you”)
Those that claim no devotion to her, I feel, have not fully grasped the Gospel message and that we are “family” with a Divine Father, a Heavenly Mother and God-man as our brother, with all the saints as kin.
As has been posted, devotion to our Lady is not necessary to salvation, but those that earnestly seek salvation will not be able to miss the recognition and veneration our Lady deserves!
Mary prays for us and watches over us whether we acknowledge her or not, to me it is only fitting to venerate her for this.
Imagine you walk into a kings house and ignore his Mother that greets you at the door…How do you think the King would react to your rudeness to his Mother?
Our Lady is known as the fiercest enemy of hell and I need her prayers constantly. Ave Maria gratia plena !

How would you imagine the Mother who greets you at the door, and you walk in, and you ignore the KING? Exspecially when the King created the Mother. Do you think Our Mother is the Kings butler?

I ask you, where have YOU placed— Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, The Holy prophets, Moses, the apostles those in obedience, also who said yes to God, whom also God spoke directly to? Can we not pray to them also? Are you saying God would not hear their prayers? What about Jesus Christ, God’s beloved son-------? What about God? What was God’s commandment, given to us, how we are to come to him? Only through God, his beloved son Jesus Christ can you come to the Father? Worship God! Not to do so or accept God’s word as truth, are we saying we don’t believe God’s word, are we not rejecting and not acceting God’s word as truth? Are we now calling God a liar. Are we now going to believe humans laws?

Are we not greating a new gospel other than the ones handed to us by the gospels? I Worship God! I trust in God! Remember God said: I know your needs before you even ask! God is a living God. God also said: I am the living God of Abrahma, Issac and Jacob!
You see God did not forget them adn they are with him also with our Dear Blessed Mother, St. Joseph Mary’s husband and step Father to Jesus! Remember you can only enter in by the gate!

It is God’s Kingdom and he has many mansions—Jesus said

I love all my Holy Family all are ONE—when one small part of the body hurts the whole body suffers! Whether I am the toe nail and you are the arm all hurst for all our ONE LOVE!
God Bless

 

[fix]

After rading much of the post I am not certain what the OP was actually asking? I think it needs more refindment to be answered accurately.

What is troubling me is that some of us seem to minimize Mary and make the truth seem to be at odds with Church teaching. Perhaps I am misunderstanding these posts?

I think the brief summary in the CCC is a great place to start and says it all quite well:

967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

Is any of that is real dispute?

 

[bear06]

Is any of that is real dispute?

Well, they haven’t really answered anything directly pertaining to Church teaching. The only thing we’ve heard is that most things were just found in encyclicals (therefore we can ignore?). They seem to wholly skip the fact that the terms they show disdain for are found in a Dogmatic Constitution of a council.

I also think that some are overlooking the very real fact that while Christ one the ultimately victory, He chooses to employ different means for people to gain heaven. Could He do things one way for all? Absolutely! That said, He doesn’t choose to do so. For someone to say that a Marian devotion is not necessary for salvation for anyone is ridiculous and perfectly out of the scope of judgment for anyone. We have no idea the means Christ chooses to employ for the salvation of others.

The Catechism goes like this:

Q. 150. Why did God make you?

A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.

Q. 151. Why is it necessary to know God?

A. It is necessary to know God because without knowing Him we cannot love Him; and without loving Him we cannot be saved. We should know Him because He is infinitely true; love Him because He is infinitely beautiful; and serve Him because He is infinitely good.

We don’t simply attain salvation because God exists. Why? Because that is not how God ordained it. If we did, there would be no hell. No, we must know him, love him and serve him in this world to be happy with him in the next. We have many tools to accomplish this goal and Our Lady is one of these. It’s not because she chose it to be so. Salvation comes from God and God only. God has given us different tools to attain salvation. He has given us different tools to come to know him. We cannot love him and serve him until we know him first. We can keep going around and around on this but I think it’s quite clear from the volumes of quotes from the different saints and Church teachings given that we’d be stupid not to employ a devotion to Mary as one of these, if not even the most important, tool to know how to love God. If you’d like to think otherwise, go ahead. The only problem I have with the title of this thread is that it doesn’t include extraordinary means of salvation. That said, the title itself, is not actually wrong for most.

 

[fix]

Well, they haven’t really answered anything directly pertaining to Church teaching. The only thing we’ve heard is that most things were just found in encyclicals (therefore we can ignore?). They seem to wholly skip the fact that the terms they show disdain for are found in a Dogmatic Constitution of a council.

I also think that some are overlooking the very real fact that while Christ one the ultimately victory, He chooses to employ different means for people to gain heaven. Could He do things one way for all? Absolutely! That said, He doesn’t choose to do so. For someone to say that a Marian devotion is not necessary for salvation for anyone is ridiculous and perfectly out of the scope of judgment for anyone. We have no idea the means Christ chooses to employ for the salvation of others.

The Catechism goes like this:

We don’t simply attain salvation because God exists. Why? Because that is not how God ordained it. If we did, there would be no hell. No, we must know him, love him and serve him in this world to be happy with him in the next. We have many tools to accomplish this goal and Our Lady is one of these. It’s not because she chose it to be so. Salvation comes from God and God only. God has given us different tools to attain salvation. He has given us different tools to come to know him. We cannot love him and serve him until we know him first. We can keep going around and around on this but I think it’s quite clear from the volumes of quotes from the different saints and Church teachings given that we’d be stupid not to employ a devotion to Mary as one of these, if not even the most important, tool to know how to love God. If you’d like to think otherwise, go ahead. The only problem I have with the title of this thread is that it doesn’t include extraordinary means of salvation. That said, the title itself, is not actually wrong for most.

Yes I am on your side and you, and the others with you, have done a wonderful job in defending our Blessed Mother.

I am simply not understanding why some think accepting a “devotion” to Mary or that all graces pass through Her is not taught by the Church.

 

[rinnie]

I am sorry but that is never going to happen Mary i not divine. Only Jesus is. while she is given the highest place in the church after jesus himself she is not to be considered equal to Jesus. That would be like going against the churchs teaching and that would be a sin. Dont get me wrong LOVE her so much, but she still doesnt come before God no one does. and to do this would be doing that in my opinion.

 

[Carolinagirl411]

To risk repeating someone else I am just going to say this

the first posting regarding Mary is something most people use to attack Catholics and something that scared me off from Catholicism for many many years. They gave all of this evidence from the saints and scholars but here is something from Christ Himself

John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

He does not say no one cometh unto the father, but by my mother and me.

Mary is there to help and to intercede she isn’t the savior and isn’t necessary. It is wonderful to have her help though.

PLEASE read the bible people if you want to know what is necessary for salvation. It provides the roadmap.

 

[nilofc]

nilofc;3497997:

Of course you can approach God without Mary. You can pray directly to God.

There seems to be some disagreement here concerning “…praying directly to God”, I’d say.

“Mary is our necessary and universal Mediatrix. No one can go to the Son but by Mary, just as no one can go to the Father but by the Son. Only through Mary do we reach Jesus, since Jesus came to us only through Mary.”
VEN. WILLIAM JOSEPH CHAMINADE

“To reach the Eternal Father, we must go to Jesus, our Mediator of Redemption. To go to Jesus, we must go to Mary, our Mediatrix of Intercession.”
ST LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

“The Child is not found without Mary, His Mother. If, then, it is impossible to separate what God has united, it is also certain that you cannot find Jesus except with Mary and through Mary.”
POPE ST PIUS X

“We must never separate Jesus from Mary; we can go to Him only through her. Without Mary, we would never find Jesus…”
ST PETER JULIAN EYMARD

“He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins. He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven…”
ST BONAVENTURE

“To desire grace without recourse to the Virgin Mother is to desire to fly without wings.”
POPE PIUS XII

thank you for these quotes and teachings from the fathers. my sentiments and beliefs are the same with these great saints and popes.