Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

[planter654]

If we keep adding our own human myths in the next 100 years the generations to come will not even know who Jesus is let alone God! Shame Shame on us. St. Peter said: forgive them for they know not what they do! Why are you causing our Dear Blessed Mother such sorrows and suffering by neglecting her son’s passion and glory! That is why I have no idol statues in my house to kneel and pray to it is abomination to God! I cannot say I love God if I do not obey his commandments! God knows all things. God’s commandments are a blessing to us if we obey them, but a curse if we choose not to! I get on my knees in his divine presents and worship him!!

God Bless

God Bless

 

[planter654]

That is false logic though. All those in heaven are sinless now and they all act according to Gods will so I could just as easily say that John the baptist is the mediatrix of all graces and he distributes Grace to whom he likes, when he likes and how he likes. In addition it is part of tradition that John the baptist was sinless.

No, Grace does not pass through Mary. Grace passes through the Son. The Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son, not Mary.

It doesn’t even make it that far. The problem is whether Mary is the distributer of Grace or whether she is simply someone who prays for us. Did Mary handle the Holy Spirit at our baptism and place Him within us?

I agree Satan is at work in this! Satan has had many generations of experience as being a great deceiveer, he wants to be worshipped as a god and was jealous of God!
God Bless

 

[GerardP]

What’s with the Mary bashers on this thread making the false accusation that people are equating her with Christ or worshipping her?

Those are typical, ignorant, uneducated bits of anti-Catholic propaganda spread by non-Catholics. I think we have some here pretending to be Catholics.

 

[planter654]

Yes and out of respect for her humility, so goes the arguement, she is hidden in scripture, only to be revealed by the graces that will be needed in the final days.

Yet if one looks at scriptures where Mary is mentioned, one cannot help but see her as a key figure, and her hiddeness is revealed. Christ was conceived in Her, Christ was nourished by her, Christ was born out of her, Christ was watched over by her, Christ was comforted by her at Calvary.

Indeed Christ seems to flow through Mary.

Our Blessed Mother lived on earth and suffered like any Mother over the care of her children.

Little St. theresa on her death bed induring much suffering with open arms of joy said. Oh! how happy I am to see myself imperfect and to be in need of God’s mercy so much even at the moment of my death!

Little St. Theresa had become perfectly SIMPLE she said: “Everyone will see that everything comes from God. Any glory that I shall have will be a gratuitous gift from God and will not belong to me. Everyone will see this clearly” Little Theresa worshipped God first! Little Theresa loved the Blessed Virgin and prayed to her and with her as any family prays in giving praise and glory to God, all are one as a family in God’s Kingdom.

Little St. Theresa statement on her death bed:

“Oh how little God is loved on this earth, even by priests and religious!” NO, GOD ISN’T LOVED VERY MUCH!

God Bless

 

[planter654]

What’s with the Mary bashers on this thread making the false accusation that people are equating her with Christ or worshipping her?

Those are typical, ignorant, uneducated bits of anti-Catholic propaganda spread by non-Catholics. I think we have some here pretending to be Catholics.

Please read the fallowing before you call people anti Catholic propaganda spread by non Catholics

God Bless

 

[planter654]

From the book of ST Therese of Lisieux who loved God the simple way and who was also called latered the DR. Of the Catholic Church. Her last conversations on her death bed!

How I would have loved to be a priest in order to preach about the Blessed Virgin! One sermon would be sufficient to say everything I think about the subject.

I’d first make people understand how little is known by us about her life.

We shouldn’t say unlikely things or things we don’t know anything about! For example, tht when she was very little, at the age of three, the Blessed Virgin went up to the Temple to offer herself to God, burning with sentiments of Love and extraordinary fervor. While perhaps she went there very simply out of obedience to her parents.

" Again, why say, with reference to the aged Simeon’s prophetic words, that the Blessed Virgin had the Passion of Jesus constantly before her mind from that moment onward? " And a sword will pierce through your soul also," the old man said. It wasn’t for the present, you see, little Mother: it was a general prediction for the future!

“For a semon on the Blessed Virgin to please me and do me any good, I must see her real life, not her “IMAGINED” life. I’m sure that her real life was very simple. They show her to us as unapproachable, but they should present her as imitable, bringing out her virtues, saying that she lived by “FAITH” just like ourselves, giving proofs of this from the Gospel, where we read: “And they did not understand the words which He spoke to them.” And that other no less mysterious statement: " His father and mother marveled at what was said about him.” This admiration presupposes a certain surprise, don’t you think so, littte Mother?

" We know very well that the Blessed Virgin is Queen of heaven and earth, but she is MORE mother than Queen: and we should not say, on account of her prerogatives, that she “surpasses all the saints in glory”, just as the sun at its rising makes the stars disappear from sight, My GOD! How strange that would be!

A mother who makes her children’s glory vanish! I myself think just the contrary. I believe she’ll increase the “splendor of the elect very much”!

"It’s good to speak about her prerogatives, but we should not stop at this, and if, in a sermon, we are obliged from beginning to end to exclaim and say: AH! AH!, we would grow tired! Who knows whether some soul would not reach the point of feeling a certain estrangement from a creature so superior and would not say: "If things are such, it’s better to go and shine as well as one is able, in some little corner!

What the Blessed Virgin has more than we have is the PRIVILEGE of not being able to sin, she was exempt from the stain of original sin: but on the other hand, she wasn’t as fortunate as we are, since she didn’t have a Blessed Virgin to love. And this is one more sweetness for us and one less sweetness for her!

" Finally, in my poem : I have said everything I would preach about her.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I will put in with Jesus Christ.

And I quote: “For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” (I Corinthians 2:2)

With all due respect, The Blessed Virgin Mary is our Mother who ALWAYS shows us the Son. Her intercessory act at the wedding feast of Cana does indicate her ability to intercede for us. However, no where does Jesus himself paint her or declare her equal with himself in any salvific way.

Honor, venerate, pray to, seek intercession from, and hold devotion to Mother Mary?.. absolutely YES! However, to afford her equation with her Son seems more than was ever intended, scripturally or traditionally. Personally, I think she finds the idea of declaring her necessary to salvation horrifying. She has NEVER brought attention to herself… she has ALWAYS pointed to Christ. Historically, it has been one of the benchmarks of the churchs apparition examinations that the `Mary’ seen or experienced in the apparition under examination ALWAYS points to Christ.

And at the wedding feast in Cana the Blessed Mother told those around Jesus------do what he ask you to do! Jesus at Cana first and fo rmost obeyed the commandments of God first! Honour thy Father and Mother and he did! Then did what was ask of him by his Mother.

ST.Theresa also speaks of the the Holy Family— What does me a lot of good when I think of the Holy Family is to imagine a life that was very ordinary. It wasn’t everything they told us or imagine. St. Joseph. Saying good St. Joseph Oh! how I love him! No everything was done in their life was done just as in our own. How many troubles, disappointments! How many times did others make complaints to good St. Joseph! How many times did they refuse to pay him for his work! Oh! how asstonished we would be if we only knew ho much they had to suffer!

Little St. theresa spoke to her little mother nun also ( her sister) about the letter of a priest who said the Blessed Virgin didn’t know physical sufferings from actual experience.

Little Theresa replied to this was: When I was looking at the Blessed Virgin this evening, I understood this wasn’t true. I understood that she sufffered not only in soul but also in body. She suffered a lot on her journeys from the cold, the heat, and from fatigue. She fasted very frequently. “Yes, she knew what it was to suffer. " But it is bad perhaps to wish that the Blessed Virgin suffered? I , especially , who love her so much!”

Little Theresa’s little mother her sister a nun also and told to write down all that she was saying Asked little Theresa about Our Lord and the Blessed Virgin, who ar there in body and soul: she heaved a deep sigh with this exclamation:

“AH!”

The sister nun said to her --" You’re making me understand that you are suffering very much because of your “interior trial”?

Little theresa said: " Yes! Must one love God and the Blessed Virgin so much and have these thoughts!! However, “I don’t dwell on them”.

My own thoughts on this is:
Satan to me works hard to cause division in God’s Holy Family us!
Even the saints suffered also because of this! We are all called to become saints for our Father is Holy we also are called to become Holy!

Little Theresa on praying to the saints

" I often pray to the saints without receiving any answers: but the more deaf they are to my prayers, the more I love them"
I asked " Why"?
" Because I’ve had a greater desire not to see God and the saints, and to remain in the night of faith, than others have desired to see and understand."

My understanding little Theresa wanted to save more souls for God through her suffering on earth, she knew God existed, don’t you think so?

Oh! how little God is loved on this earth, even by priest and religious! NO, God isn’t loved very much-----Little St. Theresa

Little St. theresa believed the lap of God, our Heavenly Father was reserved for his little children all of us!

God Bless

 

[planter654]

So please lets stop this arguing over God’s word and causing our Holy Family such pain and sorrow. Worship God and do what Jesus ask us to do!

It is God’s Kingdom and Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour is High Priest for ever over his church (us)! Who are we to tell our creator, God who created us, who or whom shall sit where or be more glorified than then other, or who is more deserving, Lord forgive us for we know not what we do! Worship God and serve one another as we also have been served. For all have received so no one can boast!

So if we boast boast of what we all have received!!!
Obey God and his commandments!

God Bless

 

[planter654]

The devoution of the saints and Mary is in the very liturgy - all Catholics already have this devotion. - it wouldn’t be a big step to say that it is necessary.

It would be a even a bigger step for the Cahtolic Church to go against what God has commanded us to do! To cause such division in the Holy Family of God who created us and to change and make these statements that are not written in the gospels, inspired by God our Creator! Worship God and pray with our Holy Family in heaven, we are the Holy Family! The liturgy is man man! Who would want to cause such divisions with in God’s Kingdom! Love on another and worship God thus in doing so we worship God and give glory honour to all who have served God the Father and the son, God is not a liar! Who knows the thoughts of the creator God who created us. God needs to be counseled by no mere mortal!

Let us all pray together as one with “our Holy Family in heaven” in giving all praise, all worship giving, all glory to God! NO! God is not loved very much on earth!------little St. Theresa

Little St. Theresa said: " What does it matter whether it’s I or someone else who gives this way to souls!! as long as the way is pointed out: the INSTRUMENT is unimportant!"

God Bless there is a diffference between union and unity.

Union there are still two
In unity there is only “One” let us all become one in the Father!

 

[planter654]

Our Lady will not force herself on those who know her and reject her. That leaves basically, our overworked guardian Angels and maybe some saints that are our ancestors.

Let me ask you this, Who does God listen to in response to prayer more, Mary or anyone else?

Why is Mary alone to be given Hyperdulia? There is a heirarchy in Heaven. That has to be remembered.

God alone recieves Latria. (worship)

Mary receives Hyperdulia (special honor)

St. Joseph receives Protodulia (first honor among the Saints)

After that, St. Micheal the Archangel is the prince of Heaven.

All of the above are our protectors, the scourge of the demons and they can intercede in any matter for us.

After that, St. John the Baptist, Sts Peter and Paul and all of the other saints and Angels

I don’t understand why you are so negative about God’s providence by providing us with these powerful and necessary intercessors.

The world and all of creation would fall apart in an instant without the angels and saints doing their work.

Every time we fall into sin, it is they who will protect us and help us to get back to Him.

I ask also along with this!

You ask " Who does God listen to in response to prayer more or anyone else?"
I ask you are you God?
Are you sitting on his throne?
Are you answering a question that God himself should only be answering and who speaks the truth and is all knowing?
So you know the thoughts of God and are you present with him? Can you tell me seeing that you know all, who’s prayers is God listening to?
Can you tell me the last prayer God received, from whom, for what, and what was God’s answer?
Are you calling God a liar?
When God said, the only way to me is through Jesus Christ are you telling God, “you” are changing his laws, God will only hear them from our Blessed Mother whom God Created?
Are you saying that Jesus Christ suffered in vain and from now on according to your new commandment we have to ask our Blessed Mother along with Jesus before we can pray to God or ask?
So you are saying now God is not the same as yesterday, today?

God forgive us all for we know not what we do!

 

[planter654]

Yes and out of respect for her humility, so goes the arguement, she is hidden in scripture, only to be revealed by the graces that will be needed in the final days.

Yet if one looks at scriptures where Mary is mentioned, one cannot help but see her as a key figure, and her hiddeness is revealed. Christ was conceived in Her, Christ was nourished by her, Christ was born out of her, Christ was watched over by her, Christ was comforted by her at Calvary.

Indeed Christ seems to flow through Mary.

`God created her and said she would be called Blessed among all woman. All who have suffered in this life and are in heaven can pray for us We are all God’s Holy Family. I thought God was watching over Jesus?

Like Jesus said to his mother when found in the temple “did you not know that I would be about my Fathers businiess” So Blessed Mary did not know or Joseph, don’t you think for they were very upset when they could not fined Jesus.

Jesus Christ was nourished by God, created by God, sent by God who was Jesus source of strenght!

We were all born of mothers through the blessing and grace of God! Not that I am saying anything, for I am dung on the ground or not giveng Honouring to our Dear Blessed Mother, but I would think she would not glorify herself, but gave all glory to God. Our Dear Mother said to God" Yes! I am a handmaiden of the Lord, be it done onto me according to they word. Our Mother was humble, showed humility, Worshiped God and praised God’s Most Holy name! We should imate our Dear Mother who loves us all dearly and not cause her such pain and sorrow ! To give pure honour to our Mother , is to worship our Father, don’t you think?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Would not our Dearest Mother be filled with such joy!

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Little St. theresa when praying to God said: I"ve never acted like Pilate, who refused, to listen to the truth. I"ve always said to God: O my God, I really want to “listen to You”; I beg you to answer me when I say humbly: What is truth? Make me see things as they really are. Let nothing cause me to be deceived."

ST. Theresa prayed to all the saints and the Blessed Virgin, Joseph had a personal relationship, devotion to Jesus. But God was first and she loved all her Holy Family!

ST. Theresa said: the great saints worked for the glory of God, but I’m only a little soul: I work simply for His pleasure, and I’d be glad to bear the greatest sufferings when this would be for the purpose of making Him smile only once."

God Bless

 

[bear06]

Just because I hate to be ignored, I thought I’d repost this. As for the OP’s question, I’d think the answer would have to be, yes, it’s possble but mighty hard. Now Gerard won’t like my anology but a Catholic gaining Salvation without Mary is probably only a little more likely as someone being saved without being a baptized member of the Catholic Church. It’s possible but very hard to do so. We as Catholics would be quite culpable if we chose not to use one of the greatest bestower of graces. How stupid would be be not to be devoted to her? I mean, really, we should ditch a devotion that has fred the vast majority of the Saints? Also, it seems that many are completely ignoring the doctrine of the Communion of Saints.​

It’s rather hard to be in the Communion of Saints without having a devotion to them.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p5.htm

as the Catholic Encyclopedia states:

Devotion to Our Blessed Lady in its ultimate analysis must be regarded as a practical application of the doctrine of the Communion of Saints.

catholic.net/RCC/Periodic…12/hardon.html

Mary’s Place in The Mystical Body
In a way, the most inspiring feature of Bellarmine’s theology of the Mystical Body is the place which he assigns within it to the Blessed Mother of God: “The Head of the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ, and Mary is the neck which joins the Head to its Body.” Because she has merited so well of God by her perfect conformity to His holy will, He has decreed that “all the gifts and all the graces which proceed from Christ as the Head should pass through Mary to the Body of the Church. Even the physical body has several members in its other parts—hands, shoulders, arms and feet—but only one head and one neck. So also the Church has many apostles, martyrs, confessors and virgins, but only one Head, the Son of God, and one bond between the Head and members, the Mother of God. By virtue of her transcendent merits before God, the Blessed Virgin stands closer than any other creature to the Head of the Mystical Body; it is no exaggeration to say that she unites the Head to the Body, and that therefore through her, before all others, flow the heavenly blessings from the Head, who is Christ, to us who are His members.”13

The doctrine of the Mystical Body is anything but sterile theology. Among the practical consequences which St. Robert derives from our incorporation in Christ is the motive which it gives for the practice of fraternal charity. The Saints in heaven intercede for the souls in purgatory, he says, because they are both members of the same Body. The souls in purgatory intercede for each other because they are also members of one Body; the Saints and poor souls intercede for us because we are one Body with them, member of member; and we are moved to pray for each other on earth, to ask for favors from the Saints in heaven, and to pray for the souls in purgatory because “together with them we form one Church and one Body, united by the bond of the same charity in the Kingdom of Christ.”14

Sorry if this is repeating. I tried to read through all of the posts before posting but I might have missed some. My router got disconnected by my tot and I didn’t discove it until late this evening.

 

[planter654]

I will put in with Jesus Christ.

And I quote: “For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” (I Corinthians 2:2)

With all due respect, The Blessed Virgin Mary is our Mother who ALWAYS shows us the Son. Her intercessory act at the wedding feast of Cana does indicate her ability to intercede for us. However, no where does Jesus himself paint her or declare her equal with himself in any salvific way.

Honor, venerate, pray to, seek intercession from, and hold devotion to Mother Mary?.. absolutely YES! However, to afford her equation with her Son seems more than was ever intended, scripturally or traditionally. Personally, I think she finds the idea of declaring her necessary to salvation horrifying. She has NEVER brought attention to herself… she has ALWAYS pointed to Christ. Historically, it has been one of the benchmarks of the churchs apparition examinations that the `Mary’ seen or experienced in the apparition under examination ALWAYS points to Christ.

You speak at the wedding at Cana it was looked differently by little St. Theresa and I also noticed something else:

If Our Lord and the Blessed Virgin had not themselves gone to banquets, never would I have understood the custom of inviting one’s friends to meals! It seemed to me that in order to nourish ourselves we would have to hide ourselves, or, at least, stay at home.

Accept invitations, yes, but only for the purpose of conversing together, recounting one’s trips, memories, and for things of a spiritual nature!

I had great sympathy for persons who served at large banquets. If, unfortunately, they let some drops fall on the tablecloth or on one of the guests, I saw the mistress of the house looking at them severely, and then these poor people blushed with shame, and I said to myself, with great interior revulsion: Oh! how this difference that exists here on earth between masters and servants, proves so well that there is a heaven, where each one will be placed according to his interior merit, where all will be seated at the heavenly Father’s banquet.

But, then, what a Servant we shall have, since Jesus has said: " He will come and serve them!" This will be the moment for the poor, and especially for the little ones to be recompensed amply for their humiliations!------- Little St. Theresa

When reading over and over forever will I till God brings me home
I saw also how Jesus was “first obedient” to his Holy Father, our God when asked by his mother, when the wedding quest ran out of wine, Jesus told her, his time had not yet come. But honoured his mother in doing what Our Blessed Mother had ask of him.

Jesus thus obedyed God First, in Honouring his Mother in doing what she ask. Like we should all do for our mother and father. Then Mary said: "to those who were around Jesus, commanding them to “listen and do all that he ask you”!

God Bless

 

[planter654]

But is not also interesting that Mary is the Holy Tabernacle, Queen of Heaven and Mother of God? Mary was in the background throughout scriptures as a pivotal character.

In fact. St. Louis de Montifort argued that God did not reveal the glory of Mary in the early Church out of respect for her desire to be humble - hence why there is no direct focus on Mary in the scriptures. He then argues that as the final days approach, that Mary’s glory will be revealed more and more because she will be needed more so.

I think he makes a strong argument, even prophetic. It is only in recent centuries that we are seeing stronger and stronger devotion to Mary. Perhaps the final days are closer then we think.

Who has given Blessed Virgin Mary the title “HOLY Tabernacle”? God said that she would be called “Blessed” among all woman?

Jesus Christ is the Holy Tabernacle we must all pass through< is he not? read Hebrews are you saying that Jesus Christ suffered in vain? Who is changing the gospels inspired by God?

The apostles say anyone who preaches you a gospel other than the one that has been given to you, by us who also bore witness to, do not ACCEPT!

Remember given to, or, handed to, we have all received, so one can boast! Not even the Catholic Church, for all have received the good news! The apostles “all” were choosen by Jesus Christ, all suffered and all where murdered for their faith and belief in Jesus Christ! They were all told to go out and preach, spread the gospel (good news) to ALL through out ALL the nations! The did not create their own myths!

God Bless

God for give them for they know not what they do!

 

[johnnydigit]

Who has given Blessed Virgin Mary the title “HOLY Tabernacle”? God said that she would be called “Blessed” among all woman?

it is apparent you haven’t seen the typology that St. Luke provided to portray Our Lady as the New Ark of the Covenant, or Tabernacle (other than it being obvious that her womb was a tabernacle).

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510fea5sb1.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510fea5.asp
motherofallpeoples.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=598&Itemid=40
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=55698

it is so obvious and in-your-face that you would have to be completely delusional to not see this connection. not even a staunch protestant can deny it.

 

[planter654]

Just because I hate to be ignored, I thought I’d repost this. As for the OP’s question, I’d think the answer would have to be, yes, it’s possble but mighty hard. Now Gerard won’t like my anology but a Catholic gaining Salvation without Mary is probably only a little more likely as someone being saved without being a baptized member of the Catholic Church. It’s possible but very hard to do so. We as Catholics would be quite culpable if we chose not to use one of the greatest bestower of graces. How stupid would be be not to be devoted to her? I mean, really, we should ditch a devotion that has fred the vast majority of the Saints? Also, it seems that many are completely ignoring the doctrine of the Communion of Saints.​

It’s rather hard to be in the Communion of Saints without having a devotion to them.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p5.htm

as the Catholic Encyclopedia states:

catholic.net/RCC/Periodic…12/hardon.html

Sorry if this is repeating. I tried to read through all of the posts before posting but I might have missed some. My router got disconnected by my tot and I didn’t discove it until late this evening.

the word of God cannot be ignored!

And Jesus answered and said to them, " Who are my mother and my brethren? And looking round on those who were sitting about him, he said, " Behold my motherand my brethren. fore whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother!"

LUKE

Now it came to pass as he ( Jesus) was saying these things, that a certain woman from the crowd lifted up her voice and said to Jesus. " Blessed is the womb that bore thee, and the breasts that nursed thee." But Jesus said: " Rather, Blessed are they who hear the Word of God and keep it!"

Jesus did not even accept being called good and said: " Only God is Good!"

God Bless

God Bless

 

[planter654]

it is apparent you haven’t seen the typology that St. Luke provided to portray Our Lady as the New Ark of the Covenant, or Tabernacle (other than it being obvious that her womb was a tabernacle).

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510fea5sb1.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510fea5.asp
motherofallpeoples.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=598&Itemid=40
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=55698

it is so obvious and in-your-face that you would have to be completely delusional to not see this connection. not even a staunch protestant can deny it.

I know that this was pointed out to the Catholic Church by Scott Hahn who even question the Catholic Church on this! So hello! the Catholic Church with all its scholars and theo… did not see this over generations!

But I suggest you go back and read again etc etc. I also would suggest you read Hebrews again about the tabernacle! I have read word for word and did not see her being called the tabernacle. God said: “she would be called blessed among all woman”. Be careful not to add, our own human myths and Jesus did not die in vain.

Elizabeth was filled with the “HOLY SPIRIT” ( ALSO) and cried out with a loud voice, saying 'Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of they womb! And Blessed is she who has believed, because the things promised her by the Lord shall be accomplished"

THE HOLY SPIRIT SHALL COME UPON THEE AND THE POWER OF THE most high SHALL OVERSHADOW THEE, AND THEREFORE THE “HOLY ONE” TO BE BORN SHALL BE CALLED THE SON OF GOD!

I love my Blessed Mother but Worship God!
Be very careful in this. God Bless

 

[bear06]

I love my Blessed Mother but Worship God!
Be very careful in this. God Bless

I haven’t read every post thorougly but I highly doubt anyone here “worships” Mary. We believe what the Church teaches in the Bible and in Tradition (that’s actually biblical). Exactly what in my previous post do you disagree with? Your Bible quotations don’t point to it.