Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

[planter654]

Per the topic of this thread, St. Alphonsus Liguori, in his book Glories of Mary, makes a pretty good argument from Scripture and Tradition that it is morally necessary, but not absolutely necessary.

What is spiritually necessary for our salvation without a good argument is to put down the books written by human hands and human minds and do what is not only morally right and just, but more important what is spiritually necessary for our salvation, our spiritual devotion in being completely obedient to God’s laws and commandments.

Lets give our Dear Mother a “REST” instead of asking, but start serving and Honouring our Dear Mother, by doing what Jesus Christ, her son has taught and showed us all how to serve, by serving others instead.

Lets put a smile on our Holy Fathers face, Jesus, our Dear Mother and all our Holy Family by our actions, by saying Yes! to God and giving thanks and praise to God “for allowing us to serve him”! Thus giving are whole body, our minds, our thoughts,our hearts, our soul, strength, our will, YES! even our whole bodies to God.

Thus becoming God’s " very little instructment" in his hands! How happy our Dear Mother will be in seeing us doing all that our Holy Father has commanded us to do and doing it in obedience to his will and desire for us! Is there a greater more pure way to give such “devotion to our Dear Mother”?

God bless

 

[SyCarl]

Now I am a Protestant who does not object to devotion to Mary, although I limit myself to asking God that I may be like her. However with respect to the topic of this thread I am surprised that no one has referred to Peter’s statement, or if they have I missed it.

And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12

Now I know that Catholics are not bound by scripture alone, but I would think that a statement from Peter that only Christ is necessary would be pretty authoritative and take precedence over what others may say. Peter says no other name is required for salvation, so no matter how much you may think devotion to Mary is beneficial, it seems hard to say it is necessary, which of course is my understanding of what the Catholic Church currently teaches.

 

[planter654]

Per the topic of this thread, St. Alphonsus Liguori, in his book Glories of Mary, makes a pretty good argument from Scripture and Tradition that it is morally necessary, but not absolutely necessary.

Books written on the Glories of Mary—devotion etc. " BEWARE"

Do you think heaven will have a huge library filled with books written by humans?

Little St. Theresa telling her sister also a nun about her diaries she was commanded to write, not wanting to do so!

" Any sister could write what I have written and would receive the same compliments, the same confidence. But it’s only through “prayer and scarifice” that we can be ‘USEFUL’ to the Church. Correspondence should be very rare, and it “MUSTN’T” be permitted at all for certain religious who would be “preoccupied” with it, believing “they’re doing marvels”, and would be doing nothing really but “harming themselves” and perhaps “falling into the devil’s subtle traps”

With further insistence she said! Mother what I’ve just told you is “very important”: I beg you not to forget it later on. At Carmel, we should never make any “false currency” in order to “redeem souls”. An oftern the beautiful words we write and the beautiful words we receive are an " EXCHANGE OF FALSE MONEY"

Little St. Theresa when passing a library gazed upon all the books and said: What a waste of one time it would have been to have read them. She said they made her head hurt! The Holy Saints were commanded by the church to keep a diary, did so out of obedience the did so, but never wanted anyone to print them, they did not want to interfer in God’s work!We are all called to become saints—Holy for our Father is Holy!

Satan knows to well what he is doing, he has had years, generations of experience! Starts out deceiving saying this is good, now their is hundreds of thousands—we only need one Holy Book the Bible inspired by God given to us. The rest you need to know ask God! Trust in God only obey his laws and commandments!

God bless

 

[GerardP]

GerardP;3464810:

The Good Thief (St. Dismus) was sa
ved under the Old Covenant. Baptism was not obligatory until after the Resurrection.

There is no “saved under the old or new covenant” there is only SAVED. All salvation comes from Christ Jesus…his graces flowing forward and backward in time from the cross.

There are however various secondary mechanisms by which people are saved through Christ. To pretend otherwise is to be ignorant.

St. Dismus was saved because of his faith in Christ. PERIOD.

Why the period? Because you don’t want anymore discussion on the topic? Who are you?

As to Baptism of Desire, READ THE CCC.

I have. And more. Cardinal Schonborn who oversaw the production of the CCC recommended that people also read the Catechism of the Council of Trent. He said, “No one has forbidden anyone from reading this catechism. It has so many beautiful things in it.”

Again, stop appealing to old texts of which you are not an expert and stick to the CLEAR teaching of the Church found in the CCC.

No. I won’t. I can use whatever authoritative texts I want and if that includes sifting through the ambiguities of the CCC I will.

Why don’t you stop appealing to the CCC of which you are not an expert?

What do I care what this individual has to say…no, I didn’t look at the link, I rely on the CCC.

You mean you rely on what you “think” the CCC says.
You are of course wrong. And so, nobody should really care what you think. Why do you even post with such an attitude?

 

[Yerusalyim]

I post with no more, or less, certainty than those on this board who seem to think all non-Catholics are going to hell and that you MUST have a devotion to Mary to be saved. Both are utterly ridiculous statements.

 

[GerardP]

I post with no more, or less, certainty than those on this board who seem to think all non-Catholics are going to hell and that you MUST have a devotion to Mary to be saved. Both are utterly ridiculous statements.

You say they are “ridiculous” statements. They aren’t. And your saying it doesn’t change it.

Just as your demand that people not cite authoritative texts from the perennial Magisterium of the Church doesn’t remove their authority.

 

[stmaria]

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
III. On the Blessed Virgin and the Church
60. There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, “for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all”.(298) The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ.
61. Predestined from eternity by that decree of divine providence which determined the incarnation of the Word to be the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin was in this earth the virgin Mother of the Redeemer, and above all others and in a singular way the generous associate and humble handmaid of the Lord. She conceived, brought forth and nourished Christ. she presented Him to the Father in the temple, and was united with Him by compassion as He died on the Cross. In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.
62. This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until The eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)
For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.
The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary. It knows it through unfailing experience of it and commends it to the hearts of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more intimately adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer

 

[Yerusalyim]

Stating that DEVOTION TO OUR LADY is necessary for salvation, is, was, and always will be a ridiculous statement. PERIOD. It is NOT what the Church teaches.

 

[MrS]

Stating that DEVOTION TO OUR LADY is necessary for salvation, is, was, and always will be a ridiculous statement. PERIOD. It is NOT what the Church teaches.

That’s right!!!

“… all generations shall call me blessed…”

Just don’t do it under the “guise” of a devotion:blush:

 

[bear06]

Books written on the Glories of Mary—devotion etc. " BEWARE"

Do you think heaven will have a huge library filled with books written by humans?

Little St. Theresa telling her sister also a nun about her diaries she was commanded to write, not wanting to do so!

" Any sister could write what I have written and would receive the same compliments, the same confidence. But it’s only through “prayer and scarifice” that we can be ‘USEFUL’ to the Church. Correspondence should be very rare, and it “MUSTN’T” be permitted at all for certain religious who would be “preoccupied” with it, believing “they’re doing marvels”, and would be doing nothing really but “harming themselves” and perhaps “falling into the devil’s subtle traps”

With further insistence she said! Mother what I’ve just told you is “very important”: I beg you not to forget it later on. At Carmel, we should never make any “false currency” in order to “redeem souls”. An oftern the beautiful words we write and the beautiful words we receive are an " EXCHANGE OF FALSE MONEY"

Little St. Theresa when passing a library gazed upon all the books and said: What a waste of one time it would have been to have read them. She said they made her head hurt! The Holy Saints were commanded by the church to keep a diary, did so out of obedience the did so, but never wanted anyone to print them, they did not want to interfer in God’s work!We are all called to become saints—Holy for our Father is Holy!

Satan knows to well what he is doing, he has had years, generations of experience! Starts out deceiving saying this is good, now their is hundreds of thousands—we only need one Holy Book the Bible inspired by God given to us. The rest you need to know ask God! Trust in God only obey his laws and commandments!

God bless

I, personally, find it quite odd that your reject Alphonsus Liguori but heavily quote St. Therese another “man”. Again, we don’t believe in Sola Scriptura.

We also believe in the Communion of Saints (that’s actually doctrine) which you have failed to address. Devotion to the saints has never been condemned by the Church and has, if fact, been supported by the Church. I don’t think anyone here has actually said that Mary does the saving. That said, she is a tool, given to us by God through which we might obtain salvation by her Son. You don’t seem to understand the very simply illustration by St. Bellarmine nor the very simple phrase: To Jesus through Mary. Devotion to the saints is a tool God has given us to obtain Heaven. We would be foolish not to use as many means as possible to achieve this.

Look at it this way. God didn’t need to have Jesus die on the Cross. He chose to do so. He doesn’t need His saints to help people obtain the graces necessary for salvation. He chooses to do so.

 

[planter654]

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
III. On the Blessed Virgin and the Church
60. There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, “for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all”.(298) The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power. For all the salvific influence of the Blessed Virgin on men originates, not from some inner necessity, but from the divine pleasure. It flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on His mediation, depends entirely on it and draws all its power from it. In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ.
61. Predestined from eternity by that decree of divine providence which determined the incarnation of the Word to be the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin was in this earth the virgin Mother of the Redeemer, and above all others and in a singular way the generous associate and humble handmaid of the Lord. She conceived, brought forth and nourished Christ. she presented Him to the Father in the temple, and was united with Him by compassion as He died on the Cross. In this singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope and burning charity in the work of the Saviour in giving back supernatural life to souls. Wherefore she is our mother in the order of grace.
62. This maternity of Mary in the order of grace began with the consent which she gave in faith at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, and lasts until The eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this salvific duty, but by her constant intercession continued to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.(15*) By her maternal charity, she cares for the brethren of her Son, who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and cultics, until they are led into the happiness of their true home. Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked by the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix, and Mediatrix.(16*) This, however, is to be so understood that it neither takes away from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficaciousness of Christ the one Mediator.(17*)
For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.
The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary. It knows it through unfailing experience of it and commends it to the hearts of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more intimately adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer

Jesus Christ said if I do not go, but when I go to the Father, the Father will send you the “Advocate” the Holy Spirit of Truth! It was “not” our Dear Blessed Mother who is the “Advocate”— Jesus was talking about------ “Mary was still living and Jesus was not yet crucifed”!

If any one preaches you a gospel other than the one we have given and preached and bore witness to, do not accept it!

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I, personally, find it quite odd that your reject Alphonsus Liguori but heavily quote St. Therese another “man”. Again, we don’t believe in Sola Scriptura.

We also believe in the Communion of Saints (that’s actually doctrine) which you have failed to address. Devotion to the saints has never been condemned by the Church and has, if fact, been supported by the Church. I don’t think anyone here has actually said that Mary does the saving. That said, she is a tool, given to us by God through which we might obtain salvation by her Son. You don’t seem to understand the very simply illustration by St. Bellarmine nor the very simple phrase: To Jesus through Mary. Devotion to the saints is a tool God has given us to obtain Heaven. We would be foolish not to use as many means as possible to achieve this.

Look at it this way. God didn’t need to have Jesus die on the Cross. He chose to do so. He doesn’t need His saints to help people obtain the graces necessary for salvation. He chooses to do so.

Remember God “sent” Jesus and Jesus laid down his life freely for all! Obedience

He doesn’t need His saints to help people obtain the graces nescessary for salvation, It is God’s will to whom God chooses to bestow “his graces” you are right! God does not need us for anything, but we need him. For all things belong to God! God said himself , I choose whom I will!

I love Jacob, God said, but God also said: I hate Esau!

I love all just have not read their books, maybe I do not need to.
Nothing about the other saints for they are all our brothers and sisters. I have not been lead to them.

For St. Theresa said: the latter saints( us) will surpass the others that have come. Funny don’t you think? For we all be call to become saints—Holy

I was lead to Little Saint Theresa, through Jesus Christ when asking for his truth and to protect me from not being deceived! You see it depends on the questions you are asking God to answer!

You see we do not know what seed (fruit) we will be until we are crushed into the earth! After our death, which little St. Theresa said: "it was silly to call it death, for in truth it meant life!

Remember our reward came after Jesus rescuixtion? We do not receive “our inheritance of the will”, till after a love one dies, right?

I mention St. Theresa because she had no education and wanted to do great things for God in saving souls like all saints, like we ourselves should be doing, serving others.

She understood the Bible better than all the theologions, scholars etc.In just a very short life. That is why she was called the Dr.of the Church. Jesus had showed her and taught her the simple way. The depth of her understanding made you look at the Bible in the simple way it was written. Not to add or change, but to simply read it.

For example a nun said: there will be no tears in heaven, St. Theresa corrected her–that is not true–for God said he would wipe away every tear! Meaning God Himself!

The Church said; that a whole book plus many more written would be needed to expressed such “depth of knowledge”, made from such simple statements. There was “ONE” statement she made, A Carnal said: a whole book would be needed alone just on this one statement made by little Theresa!

Do not add or change just read, just read, ponder when you read and reflex on your life and family around you, the earth as a whole! Jesus will teach you the simple way of his message and how it applies to each one of us!

. God Bless

 

[bear06]

Jesus Christ said if I do not go, but when I go to the Father, the Father will send you the “Advocate” the Holy Spirit of Truth! It was “not” our Dear Blessed Mother who is the “Advocate”— Jesus was talking about------ “Mary was still living and Jesus was not yet crucifed”!

If any one preaches you a gospel other than the one we have given and preached and bore witness to, do not accept it!

God Bless

First of all, it would be very helpful if you would put bible verses down when discussing quotes.

Next, do you really have a problem with the Church attaching the title Advocate to Mary in the Dogmatic Constitution given? I mean you seem to be saying that this is contrary tot he gospel and we should accept it. Is this correct? An advocate is anyone who intercedes on behalf of another. Do you not believe that Mary does this?

 

[bear06]

Remember God “sent” Jesus and Jesus laid down his life freely for all! Obedience

And? I really don’t see what that has to do with the current conversation. I don’t see anyone debating this.

He doesn’t need His saints to help people obtain the graces nescessary for salvation,

I think that’s what I said. That said, He chooses to employ the Communion of Saints. If he didn’t what would be the purpose of praying for anyone?

It is God’s will to whom God chooses to bestow “his graces” you are right! God does not need us for anything, but we need him. For all things belong to God! God said himself , I choose whom I will!

And the intercession of the Saints belongs to God.

BTW, would this fall contrary to the gospels?

Pius IX on Mary From our earliest years nothing has ever been closer to our heart than devotion—filial, profound, and wholehearted—to the most blessed Virgin Mary. Always have we endeavored to do everything that would redound to the greater glory of the Blessed Virgin, promote her honor, and encourage devotion to her. . . . Great indeed is our trust in Mary. The resplendent glory of her merits, far exceeding all the choirs of angels, elevates her to the very steps of the throne of God. Her foot has crushed the head of Satan. Set up between Christ and his Church, Mary, ever lovable and full of grace, always has delivered the Christian people from their greatest calamities and from the snares and assaults of all their enemies, ever rescuing them from ruin. . . . The foundation of all our confidence, as you know well, venerable brethren, is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary.

—Pope Pius IX, Ubi Primum (February 2, 1849)

I love Jacob, God said, but God also said: I hate Esau!

Point?

I was lead to Little Saint Theresa, through Jesus Christ when asking for his truth and to protect me from not being deceived! You see it depends on the questions you are asking God to answer!

You might want to take into account that St. Therese didn’t deem to interpret scripture. Also, you might want to be open to the fact that you might be misinterpreting St. Therese. St. Therese doesn’t contradict the Church’s teaching.

You see we do not know what seed (fruit) we will be until we are crushed into the earth! After our death, which little St. Theresa said: "it was silly to call it death, for in truth it meant life!

She understood the Bible better than all the theologions, scholars etc.In just a very short life.

It’s interesting and I’m sure she had a great understanding. That said, I don’t believe that St. Therese in all her humility claimed this. She certainly would never contradict doctrine.

That is why she was called the Dr.of the Church. Jesus had showed her and taught her the simple way. The depth of her understanding made you look at the Bible in the simple way it was written. Not to add or change, but to simply read it.

For example a nun said: there will be no tears in heaven, St. Theresa corrected her–that is not true–for God said he would wipe away every tear! Meaning God Himself!

The Church said; that a whole book plus many more written would be needed to expressed such “depth of knowledge”, made from such simple statements. There was “ONE” statement she made, A Carnal said: a whole book would be needed alone just on this one statement made by little Theresa!

Do not add or change just read, just read, ponder when you read and reflex on your life and family around you, the earth as a whole! Jesus will teach you the simple way of his message and how it applies to each one of us!

. God Bless

And I must ask at this point - And? This whole conversation is rather funny. You have a great devotion to St. Therese and don’t even know it. God didn’t need her and yet he uses her fto bring people to salvation:thumbsup: .

 

[planter654]

First of all, it would be very helpful if you would put bible verses down when discussing quotes.

Next, do you really have a problem with the Church attaching the title Advocate to Mary in the Dogmatic Constitution given? I mean you seem to be saying that this is contrary tot he gospel and we should accept it. Is this correct? An advocate is anyone who intercedes on behalf of another. Do you not believe that Mary does this?

So I am an advocate for you or who ever?

Sorry! I don’t remember the Bible verses #, as much as the word and message of God saying it! I have looked it up for you. I think Jesus mentioned this in John. Chapter 16 Verse 7–14

Jesus said :For if I do not go, the AVOCATE will not come to you. But if I go I will SEND him (not her) to you. And when HE comes HE will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me: condemnation, because the ruler of this world has been condemned.

I! have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. But when “he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth”. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will “declare to you” the things that are coming. He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

So the advocate God sends us, is the “Spirit of Truth”, that dwells within us all who believe!

Jesus said he will not leave us orphans! The advocate is the Spirit of Truth that dwells in all. Remember God said "you need not look far for me!

God Bless

 

[Miles_Mariae]

Planter: If you have ever prayed the Rosary, you probably know that the Hail, Holy Queen prayer calls upon Our Lady as “most gracious advocate”. So, do you want to stop arguing against this title for Our Lady, or do you accuse this prayer of being heretical?

 

[planter654]

And? I really don’t see what that has to do with the current conversation. I don’t see anyone debating this.

I think that’s what I said. That said, He chooses to employ the Communion of Saints. If he didn’t what would be the purpose of praying for anyone?

And the intercession of the Saints belongs to God.

BTW, would this fall contrary to the gospels?

Point?

You might want to take into account that St. Therese didn’t deem to interpret scripture. Also, you might want to be open to the fact that you might be misinterpreting St. Therese. St. Therese doesn’t contradict the Church’s teaching.

You see we do not know what seed (fruit) we will be until we are crushed into the earth! After our death, which little St. Theresa said: "it was silly to call it death, for in truth it meant life!

It’s interesting and I’m sure she had a great understanding. That said, I don’t believe that St. Therese in all her humility claimed this. She certainly would never contradict doctrine.

And I must ask at this point - And? This whole conversation is rather funny. You have a great devotion to St. Therese and don’t even know it. God didn’t need her and yet he uses her fto bring people to salvation:thumbsup: .

Oh no! she never claimed her great understanding, she was too humbly and lived in humility. Those in the convent thought she was foolish and made fun of her and treated her harsh. But it did not take long, for we are all tested as any great saint also, Those who made fun, laughed at her, thought she was foolish, childish in her ways and thinking etc. Humility she welcome with open arms! But they all knew in a very short time afterward, she was divine called.

The voice of God first made itself heard—Pope X1 about little St. Theresa I worship God and praise his most Holy Name for nothing is impossible with God. Trust in God! Only as a child can we enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

Oh my dear friend St Theresa was obedient to the church whether they were right or wrong. That is a beautiful scarifice to God, did you not know that? Oh no! Little St. Theresa never contradict God’s word, she fully lived her life in his word! Oh! how much God dearly loves us all!

God bless

No devotion, but love for her, but Jesus (“used his little instrument ST. Theresa”) to teach me and there is quite more to this topic between me and Jesus and what is happening. Did you not read that we will not know what seed (fruit) we will be until we are crushed into the ground.

God Bless

 

[Schultzz]

Stating that DEVOTION TO OUR LADY is necessary for salvation, is, was, and always will be a ridiculous statement. PERIOD. It is NOT what the Church teaches.

One does not have to have a devotion to The Blessed Mother to gain salvation. I am very devoted to Our Lady because she has never let me down, and she is a wonderful interecessor. Yet, she knows Her role and Her place. She is “Queen of Heaven”, yet She does NOT want to be a Goddess. Without God giving Her power she would have none of Her own. She might be the Mediatrix of graces if that is what God wants, but She is definitely NOT on the same level as members of the Holy Trinity. Yes I am devoted to Her, but I am more in love with and devoted to Jesus, Her Son. To say that She is necessary for salvation is an apostasy. She doesn’t need anyone to defend Her, She has Her Son to defend Her if need be. So Children, stop this bickering because it indicates false pride. We do not have all the answers. Yet can’t you see who is the author behind all this derision and division?
It IS advisable to call upon the Blessed Mother for help, yet it is NOT necessary for salvation.

 

[bear06]

So I am an advocate for you or who ever?

Sorry! I don’t remember the Bible verses #, as much as the word and message of God saying it! I have looked it up for you. I think Jesus mentioned this in John. Chapter 16 Verse 7–14

 

[planter654]

Thanks for the quote. Not to be technical (but I will) the more precise trnaslationsays Paraclete (which is another name for the Holy Ghost at least in the Douey-Rheims). The NAB is not really considered the best translation.