Devotion To Our Lady Is Necessary For Salvation

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grandmaM said:
I agree with you that the final days are closer than we think but I think the reason the devotion to Mary is growing stronger does not have anything to do with God but has to do with 2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths
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I don’t think devotion to the Blessed Mother is growing anyway…I think it and all religious devotions and practices are decreasing in general, as time goes on, especially here in the Americas with all the Latinos leaving the catholic church for evangelical or pentecostal or :doh2: J.W.s!..at least that’s how it seems to me…
 
grandmaM said:
I agree with you that the final days are closer than we think but I think the reason the devotion to Mary is growing stronger does not have anything to do with God but has to do with 2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths
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Although I don’t subscribe to all the popular Marian apparitions, perhaps the scripture you quote, GrandmaM, is refering to the thousands of different protestant denonminations with their wide variety of doctrinal precepts and different “truths”…:hmmm:
after all, the Holy Orthodox churches and the Holy Catholic churchs are the only churches that go back to apostolic times and the Orthodox have a deep devotion and high place of honor for our Blessed Mother, the “most Immaculate one”, the “Queen of All”, most blessed Theotokos, and we have the same on the western side of the fence, although prehaps a bit more defined…
seems like the churches that don’t honor Mary are the ones “wanting their ears tickeled”…
get with the program, you wouldn’t want to be “Left Behind” and have to fight the One World Government and all that! 😛

I still want to know from the O.P. what they define as a “devotion” though.
 
Interesting that its suggested devotion ( I assume private devotion is the topic here) is neccessary for salvation when prayer to the Blessed Mother was not widespread in the Church until after the third council where she was proclaimed Theotokos. I suppose all those early Catholics before Ephesus get left out of the salvation deal then :rolleyes:
 
I am not taking a particular side here, as I have much to learn, but presumably knowledge of her role in Redemption is a prerequisite to devotion to her becoming necessary. So, before what we now know of her was revealed, of course people cannot be blamed for not practicing devotions that hadn’t been developed yet.
 
If that is a Dogma as some here propose, the it would have been knowledge of the early church in some form or another. Recognition of other Marian dogmas go back very far, yet this one particular idea of Mary as a co redemptrix only goes back as far as the High Middle ages with St. Bernard and some Franciscans.
 
Okay, I defer to your historical knowledge. I’m just saying that just because early Christians may not all have practiced Marian devotion does not logically preclude it from being necessary for us *after *all that has been revealed about Our Lady. I leave the rest of the debate to the experts, just commenting on that point.
 
Yerusalyim said:
Baptism can and sometimes is by desire or by blood rather than water. Witness the good theif.

Submission to the Pontiff is NOT necessary for salvation, the Church DOES NOT teach this, otherwise only FORMAL members of the Church would be saved…yet the Church has made it absolutely clear that those who are not Roman Catholic can be saved…without converting.

Inclusion in the Catholic Church: Only insofar as that teaching is currently understood by the Church and not the heresy of Fr. Feeney.

Holding to what the Church teaches…only if one KNOWS what the Church teaches, believes it as true, and yet contravines the teaching…in otherwords, a Presbyterian can be saved.

You’re quite confused and I would ask you to reevaluate what you’ve stated in light of the teaching of the Church especially as found in the CCC.

CHRIST is necessary for salvation, how He accomplishes that is up to him, not you.
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Good Post!
 
“Many have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers -
among others: St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus of Constantinople, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine, St. Thomas, and St. Bonaventure - that devotion to Our Most Blessed Virgin is necessary for salvation, and that it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem or love for the Holy Virgin while,
on the other hand, it is an infallible mark of predestination to be entirely and truly devoted to her.”
ST. LOUIS MARIE DE MONTFORT

So which one of the Catholics here is going to explain how devotion to Our Lady is NOT necessary for salvation when De Montfort says that it is? And do explain how he became canonized if his major work, True Devotion To Mary, has doctrinal error, with content like the quote above. Let’s not run away from this.
 
If it is necessary why would it not be in the Catechism? I would say the term necessary for salvation is a bit ambiguous. It seems to be something that in of itself has no power to save us. Only Christ saves us. However, it is important to the faith. Also, then it matters how much devotion you mean. Obviously we should respect our Lord’s mother. We should not get carried away though. At no time should our devotion to our Lady exceed our devotion to Jesus. Also, as many people devoted to Mary say, that devotion to Mary is for her to lead you to Christ. So Salvation could be a lot easier by having a devotion to Mary. She can help you come closer to Christ. This is a fine line. Further Louis de Montfort is a great guy, but he does not have authority. The Councils have authority, scripture has authority, ex cathedra statements have authority. The point is devotion to our Lady is not salvific. However, not honoring our Lady would not be recommended. The devotion is important. It can not save you. Christ saves you. When you say necessary for salvation if you mean in the same way as is following the will of God necessary for salvation then yes. So in the sense of is the devotion salvific, no. In the sense that a devotion to our Lady is very important then yes. Mary does not do things for her own glory, rather for the glory of her son. I may be wrong here, but I would think Mary would be upset if people were reverencing her to much, or if for the wrong reasons.
 
Freshman88 said:
These titles and devotions to Mary are not outside of God, but safely inside Him, nestled within Holy Tradition. I hope you did not just claim that this devotions/titles of Mary are “fruitless” and are born out of our “ego” or “thoughts”.

Becarful that you do not fall into heresy.
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No! when I said fruitless I meant when “we ourselves agrue” over Holy Scripture as individuals etc.

But you know, look how easy it is to misunderstand the message or answer we give. Do you think we also do the same with God’s Holy Scripture his words? Do we not put our thoughts first, our ego are we not ready for defense. Just thinking of that. Thank God he knows the thoughts, hearts and souls of each of his children and will be the one to judge us in the end!

God Bless
 
MrS said:
That’s right!!!

“… all generations shall call me blessed…”

Just don’t do it under the “guise” of a devotion:blush:
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ALL GENERATIONS SHALL CALL ME BLESSED does NOT state that devotion to Mary is Neccessary for salvation…it’s not…ALL GENERATIONS SHALL CALL ME BLESSED, AND THOSE THAT DON’T WILL BURN IN HELL.

ROG
So which one of the Catholics here is going to explain how devotion to Our Lady is NOT necessary for salvation when De Montfort says that it is?
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Just because an idividual is canonized does not make them infallible. No pope and no council of the church has declared this. So I, I will say that St. Monfort was incorrect in his ascertian, or your understanding of it. Canonization merely means that he lived the virtues of Christianity heroicly, not that his every utterance is doctrine.
 
Just because an idividual is canonized does not make them infallible. No pope and no council of the church has declared this. So I, I will say that St. Monfort was incorrect in his ascertian, or your understanding of it. Canonization merely means that he lived the virtues of Christianity heroicly, not that his every utterance is doctrine.

:amen:
 
roguejim said:
This an exhortation to anyone who would wish to be saved.

“All gifts, virtues, and graces of the Holy Ghost are administered by the hands of Mary to whomsoever she desires, when she desires, in the maner she desires, and to whatever degree she desires. Mary is the dispensatrix of all the graces God bestows. Every grace granted to man in this life has three successive steps: from God it comes to Christ, and from Christ to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us.”
ST. BERNARDINE OF SIENNA
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This subject, IMO., is being beaten to death & the answer has already been given SEVERAL times. Our Salvation comes from Christ, it is not “neccesary” to have devotion to Mary…but it’s almost impossible to have a relationship with Christ that excludes His Mother. One of the threads that dealt with this fact has been pulled because it got so nasty. Must we go through it all again & again?
 
Yerusalyim said:
Just because an idividual is canonized does not make them infallible. .
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Yes it does… they are proclaimed to be in heaven where there is the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth… and they fully experience it.

.
 
Yerusalyim said:
Just because an idividual is canonized does not make them infallible. No pope and no council of the church has declared this. So I, I will say that St. Monfort was incorrect in his ascertian, or your understanding of it. Canonization merely means that he lived the virtues of Christianity heroicly, not that his every utterance is doctrine.
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The CCC isn’t infallible either.

St. Montfort’s writings are part of the deposit of faith as well as papal encylicals part of the ordinary magisterium.

Imagine that.
 
MrS said:
Yes it does… they are proclaimed to be in heaven where there is the Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth… and they fully experience it.

.
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They have the Truth now in heaven, but they weren’t infallible on earth. Thats rediculous. Augustine, whom is a Saint and Doctor, wrote things that aren’t even doctrinally accurate as well as many many other Church fathers who did not write 100% correct doctrine all the time. If you want to say St. Louis is infallible and that his writings are magisterial, then I propose that St. Photius’ writings are also infallible and magisterial even though he had countless conflicts with Rome and even beleived that the west was quasi heretical for its beleif in the double procession of the Holy Ghost.
 
Formosus said:
They have the Truth now in heaven, but they weren’t infallible on earth. Thats rediculous. Augustine, whom is a Saint and Doctor, wrote things that aren’t even doctrinally accurate as well as many many other Church fathers who did not write 100% correct doctrine all the time. If you want to say St. Louis is infallible and that his writings are magisterial, then I propose that St. Photius’ writings are also infallible and magisterial even though he had countless conflicts with Rome and even beleived that the west was quasi heretical for its beleif in the double procession of the Holy Ghost.
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Please try to follow the train of thought…

*Just because an idividual is canonized does not make them infallible. . *
this implies they are already dead…duh…, and not subject to an infallible state if they are in heaven where only Truth exists.

.
 
The saint is NOW infallibile in heaven, the writings he left here on earth in this life are not which is what I thought was being implied.
 
Formosus said:
The saint is NOW infallibile in heaven, the writings he left here on earth in this life are not which is what I thought was being implied.
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But they are now part of the deposit of faith, we mustn’t overlook that.
 
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