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bayoubutterfly
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I very much agree with this
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fix
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The Church does teach graces flow through Mary. That it is not a formal Dogma does not mean it is false, reformable, or fallible.
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rinnie
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rinnie
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If you dont mind me asking, is it intercession you dont agree with? Im not sure I understand?
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rinnie
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I must say im not sure what is exactly being said here myself. Now to say that you must go to the Blessed Mother to get to heaven, that is not the teachings of the Church. But to say you can go to her and she can help you that is the teachings of the Church. Its like this whole thread is a dog running after his tail. But to be honest if we are to say Devotion to our Lady is necessary for Salvation, Im am sorry thats not true. At least I have never heard it in my life and all ive ever been is Roman Catholic. Now to say that we can go to her and she can help us, and without her help we may have had a harder time to get to heaven, I can agree with that. But to say she is more powerful than Jesus is not true. And if it is Im in trouble with my Faith. Because i dont believe that. I was never ever taught that and Catholic Teachings do not teach that. At least ive never seen it.
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eucharist04
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We catholics need to remember the words of Jesus
John 14:6 " I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one can come to the Father but by me."
Christ is the only means of salvation. We must be totally devoted only to him for our salvation.
John 14:6 " I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one can come to the Father but by me."
Christ is the only means of salvation. We must be totally devoted only to him for our salvation.
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rinnie
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See i totally agree. That is the Catholic Faith. No arguement from me. I mean i believe in intercession, prayers, etc. and i believe we can Pray people into heaven per say, But you still dont bypass God you cant. We can help eachother but its still Gods call. But he will listen to us and loves to see us love one another and pray for eachother. And i Believe he loves for us to ask his Mother for prayers, and the saints etc. But he is still the Boss.We catholics need to remember the words of Jesus
John 14:6 " I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one can come to the Father but by me."
Christ is the only means of salvation. We must be totally devoted only to him for our salvation.
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Michael96
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I don’t have a problem with intercession, though I almost always pray directly to God myself.
But I personally don’t believe in a notion that graces from God must flow through Mary as an intermediary between us and God.
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nilofc
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I agree with you but something is lacking. St. Paul said that he, us, everyone completes what is lacking in Christ’s suffering. What can be lacking? Nothing…but your suffering is now endowed with a redemptive value that in itself can never possess on its own apart from the union with the sufferings of Christ.We catholics need to remember the words of Jesus
John 14:6 " I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one can come to the Father but by me."
Christ is the only means of salvation. We must be totally devoted only to him for our salvation.
Just as it is lacking for you to have a personal relationship with Christ alone. Christ established a church in which we must all be members of. In this Church, we are brothers and sisters in Christ with God as our Father. But what is a family without a mother?
To be totally devoted to Christ is to be devoted to His Church. The Church is the mystical body of Christ alone. To be devoted to Christ is to follow Christ’s teaching and to accept as well as embrace all that He has given us.
And the last thing He gave us at the foot of the cross is His mother.
To truly embrace Christ is to embrace Mary, for Christ has embraced and loved His mother even before He created her. How dare some Christians and even supposed catholics deny Christ’s mother when Jesus himself didn’t.
You can only separate Jesus apart from Mary if you think that it’s God’s will for Mary not to be His mother. But God willed it.
He willed for us to accept her to be the Queen of all mankind, the queen of heaven and earth for she is the new Eve, the Ark of the new covenant, the mother of all people who believes in Christ.
God will not save us without the intercession of Mary . . .
No one can be saved without the protection of Mary.
St. Bonaventure
If people fail to say the Hail Mary, it is a sign that they will probably-----and indeed, shortly-----be condemned to eternal punishment.
**Bl. Alan de la Roche **
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Michael96
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But we do need to ensure that no Catholics are under the impression that Mary is divine or part of the trinity.
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rinnie
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Thats fair enough, and I can agree with you on that. But you can see also that they can flow thru her right? But you are right in saying that, I think we all agree, with her we can receive Graces, but we also know we dont have to go to her. I just really dont understand the point of this whole thread myself now either. Its like I love her deeply and I do pray and believe that she helps me every single day. But i also dont believe that you have to. It a free gift given to us from God. But as much as we love her she is still Co= Middle person. God still never said she has more Power or as much Power. Yes she can help, ALOT but its still through the Power of God. Well at least we agree!
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nilofc
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It is a church-condemned heresy to offer sacrifices to Mary, like that of the mass, for she is just a created being. The church never taught that Mary is to be worshiped. But the church teaches this…
**Latria **- Reverence given to God alone.
**Hyperdulia **- Reverence given to Mary.
Dulia - Reverence given to saints.
If we can distinguish the three types of reverence from each other then Catholics, as well as Protestants, will learn to appreaciate the fullness of the truth regarding the Chruch’s relation with the mother of God.
Sadly, a lot of Catholics in this thread thinks that Latria is the only reverence that exists in the Church that’s why they can’t accept our veneration of Mary above the saints and apart from that we give to God.
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nilofc
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How did Christ come into the world?
He could have just willed it…but God chose to be born of a humble virgin that He endowed to be full of grace.
Christ came into the world through Mary. So does grace comes only through the hands of Mary.
Please note that I said that graces comes through her…and never did I say that she was the origin of this grace. The grace that Mary gives is the grace that Christ wishes to dispense on us.
He could have just willed it…but God chose to be born of a humble virgin that He endowed to be full of grace.
Christ came into the world through Mary. So does grace comes only through the hands of Mary.
Please note that I said that graces comes through her…and never did I say that she was the origin of this grace. The grace that Mary gives is the grace that Christ wishes to dispense on us.
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rinnie
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Nillofc, But what i dont understand how could not believing that Mary is as powerful as God be separating them. Of course we believe that Mary is the Mother of Christ and God wanted it that way. But it still doesnt mean she is as powerful.
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Michael96
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Thanks for the clarification. I don’t have a problem with that. I was just a little concerned that when you said that Jesus and Mary should not be separated you were implying Mary was somehow part of the divine trinity. Tx for clarifying.
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nilofc
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2 Peter 1:4 -
Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, after escaping from the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire.
We will be partakers of the divine nature. Isn’t this mind boggling?
Do you think that Mary partakes the divine nature?
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nilofc
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We will be like God (as God has intended it to be). You can read this in Genesis. We are made in the image and likeness of God.
Mind you, not only in the image…but also in the likeness. Because we will be partking the divine nature.
The only deception is… Satan used the truth to deceive Eve.
This is what I say, if we are to be sons and daugthers of God then we are to be like God but not equal to God. This is how God wants to share His divine life with us. This is truly Fathering as we understand God is a Father.
Mind you, not only in the image…but also in the likeness. Because we will be partking the divine nature.
The only deception is… Satan used the truth to deceive Eve.
This is what I say, if we are to be sons and daugthers of God then we are to be like God but not equal to God. This is how God wants to share His divine life with us. This is truly Fathering as we understand God is a Father.
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nilofc
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Still having problems in calling Mary the Mother of God?
How about this? Calling Mary as the Mother of God has nothing to do with God’s origination.
Will that make sense and comfortable now?
To separate the two natures of Jesus (Human and Divine) is a condemned heresy.
A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus “was descended from David according to the flesh” (Rom. 1:3).
Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.
Fundamentalists often assert that Mary did not carry God in her womb, but only carried Christ’s human nature. This assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism, which runs aground on the fact that a mother does not merely carry the human nature of her child in her womb. Rather, she carries the person of her child. Women do not give birth to human natures; they give birth to persons. Mary thus carried and gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, and the person she gave birth to was God.
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nilofc
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