Devout/catechized Catholics: What do you think is the most problematic teaching of various non-Catholic religions?

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Are you then heartened with the knowledge that many of us - Lutheran and Anglican in particular - share with you a strong belief in the real and substantial presence?

Jon
Heartened? OK! At least you acknowledge the miracle of the Eucharist. Unfortunately, the substance that you worship as God is only bread & water. I don’t mean to upset you or call you idol worshippers, I mean no disrespect to you or your denomination but the truth is that ordination of your preist hood is invalid.

Peace!😦
 
Heartened? OK! At least you acknowledge the miracle of the Eucharist. Unfortunately, the substance that you worship as God is only bread & water. I don’t mean to upset you or call you idol worshippers, I mean no disrespect to you or your denomination but the truth is that ordination of your preist hood is invalid.

Peace!😦
Not upset at all. I’ve heard your response from others and am perfectly aware of the Catholic Church’s view of our clergy. It isn’t a mutually shared view, as I suspect you know. Lutherans accept the Catholic priesthood as valid, and your Eucharist as valid, as well.

Perhaps the day will come when we share a common recognition of each other’s clergy and sacrament. and point to Cr. Ratzinger’s quote in my signature for hope to that end.
In the meantime, you can guess that I respectfully disagree with Rome’s (current) view of our clergy and sacrament.

Jon
 
Not upset at all. I’ve heard your response from others and am perfectly aware of the Catholic Church’s view of our clergy. It isn’t a mutually shared view, as I suspect you know. Lutherans accept the Catholic priesthood as valid, and your Eucharist as valid, as well.

Perhaps the day will come when we share a common recognition of each other’s clergy and sacrament. and point to Cr. Ratzinger’s quote in my signature for hope to that end.
In the meantime, you can guess that I respectfully disagree with Rome’s (current) view of our clergy and sacrament.

Jon
Thanks Jon for the charitable post. You are a man of great patience!

God Bless!
 
Are you then heartened with the knowledge that many of us - Lutheran and Anglican in particular - share with you a strong belief in the real and substantial presence?

Jon
people can beleive whatever they want… but that doesn’t make it so… If a Lutheran or Anglican has the Real Presence its only becaues their pastor is an ex-Catholic priest… because only a priest can confect the host.
 
people can beleive whatever they want… but that doesn’t make it so… If a Lutheran or Anglican has the Real Presence its only becaues their pastor is an ex-Catholic priest… because only a priest can confect the host.
For now, we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. Once again, I’ll point to my signature as hope that one day the Catholic Church will recognize us as we recognize you.

Jon
 
For now, we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. Once again, I’ll point to my signature as hope that one day the Catholic Church will recognize us as we recognize you.

Jon
well, you can disagree with me that 2 + 2 = 4 but that doesn’t change anything…

🙂
 
Now there’s a problem that needs addressing! What can we do to stop this aging thing? 😉
aging is wonderful… it means we are (hopefully it means we are) on our way to Heaven…

but if we are not feeling too ready for Heaven… i guess we could slow down aging by eating healthy foods (no sugar, no processed foods, no trans fats…) and walking a lot and keeping a positive attitude… also, stimulatin the brain through a lot of “difficult” reading is supposed to keep Alzheimer’s at bay… somewhat…

which reminds me… i wonder why there is so much Alzheimer’s these days…? Or did they used to call it senility??
 
See? We agree again, as I think you’ll admit, we have quite often in the past.

Jon
Otay…

but why do i get this feeling you are skirting the issue…

the issue being: do non-Catholics have the Real Presence…

the answer is No… (unless they have an ex-Catholic priest for a minister)
 
Otay…

but why do i get this feeling you are skirting the issue…

the issue being: do non-Catholics have the Real Presence…

the answer is No… (unless they have an ex-Catholic priest for a minister)
Orthodox are non-catholics. The PNCC are non-catholics.
 
Otay…

but why do i get this feeling you are skirting the issue…

the issue being: do non-Catholics have the Real Presence…

the answer is No… (unless they have an ex-Catholic priest for a minister)
Even if it were an ex-catholic, the CC would considerit not licit, as well.
But you are right, this is the one question that I think the big boys need to resolve - our church leaders and yours. And that question is, is the Lutheran use of presbyter ordination a valid form of ordination? Considering that the Catholic Church has, in the past, used presbyter ordination and considered it valid says that it is. Considering historic church practice (and I’m certainly no expert) our use of presbyter ordination makes our clergy and sacraments valid. So when my pastor says, “On the night in which He was betrayed, our Lord took bread…” our bread and wine become the true and substantial body and blood of Christ.

And obviously by his words, Cardinal Ratzinger believes there is a salvation granting presence in our Eucharist, as well.
Jon
 
Even if it were an ex-catholic, the CC would considerit not licit, as well.
But you are right, this is the one question that I think the big boys need to resolve - our church leaders and yours. And that question is, is the Lutheran use of presbyter ordination a valid form of ordination? Considering that the Catholic Church has, in the past, used presbyter ordination and considered it valid says that it is. Considering historic church practice (and I’m certainly no expert) our use of presbyter ordination makes our clergy and sacraments valid. So when my pastor says, “On the night in which He was betrayed, our Lord took bread…” our bread and wine become the true and substantial body and blood of Christ.

And obviously by his words, Cardinal Ratzinger believes there is a salvation granting presence in our Eucharist, as well.
Jon
from what i can tell, if an ex-Catholic priest goes away from RCC & becomes minister of Protstant church, he is priest forever & so can / does confec the host. I have no knowledge/awareness that his doing so is in any way “illicit”. But I’d have to look it up in canon law or something…

have no idea what presyber ordination is…
 
Please mention a non-Catholic religion and one or two things about it that you feel are the most troublesome…

Considering all the ones that adhere to OSAS…

Believing you are saved no matter what you do is the worst of the worst beliefs… because it leads to a person being sloppy about keeping the words of Christ… and then such sloppiness leads to apathy about Christianity in general… which leads to sin…which leads to Hell…
If you do not mind a non-Christian joining in for a bit…

When the Buddha was asked what other religions were OK to follow he said that as long as the religion made a connection between your actions and here and now what happened to you afterwards then that religion was OK. In this sense atheism, OSAS and extreme Calvinist Predestination all fail the test - there is no connection between our actions here and now and future results. In atheism everybody gets the same result. With OSAS and Predestination there is no way that our actions here and now can affect the result.

As you say, such a disconnection between actions and outcome can lead to unwise actions.

rossum
 
from what i can tell, if an ex-Catholic priest goes away from RCC & becomes minister of Protstant church, he is priest forever & so can / does confec the host. I have no knowledge/awareness that his doing so is in any way “illicit”. But I’d have to look it up in canon law or something…

have no idea what presyber ordination is…
I’ll be interested to hear what you find out.

As for presbyter ordination, it is basically priest ordaining priest.
lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/02/display.asp?t1=a&word=APOSTOLICSUCCESSION
Although the Lutheran symbols affirm the desire to retain the apostolic succession and hist. episcopate (Ap XIV 1, 5) only a few canonically consecrated bishops. accepted the Reformation and, except in Sweden., political and other considerations prevented them from transmitting the apostolic succession to the Luth. community. Lacking bishops. to ordain their candidates for the sacred ministry, the Luths. appealed to the patristically attested facts that originally bishops. and priests constituted only one order; that the right to ordain was inherent in the priesthood (a principle on which a number of popes of the 15th c., among them Boniface IX, Martin V, and Innocent VIII, acted in authorizing Cistercian abbots who were only priests to ordain); that thence “an ordination administered by a pastor in his own church is valid by divine law” (Tractatus 65); and that when the canonical bishops. refuse to impart ordination “the churches are compelled by divine law to ordain pastors and ministers, using their own pastors for this purpose (adhibitis suis pastoribus)” (ibid., 72). The succession of the ministry in the Lutheran Church may therefore be presumed to be a valid presbyterial one.
Jon
 
If you do not mind a non-Christian joining in for a bit…

When the Buddha was asked what other religions were OK to follow he said that as long as the religion made a connection between your actions and here and now what happened to you afterwards then that religion was OK. In this sense atheism, OSAS and extreme Calvinist Predestination all fail the test - there is no connection between our actions here and now and future results. In atheism everybody gets the same result. With OSAS and Predestination there is no way that our actions here and now can affect the result.

As you say, such a disconnection between actions and outcome can lead to unwise actions.

rossum
so… did Buddha ever repent of leaving his wife and child… on the day the child was born??? :eek: :rolleyes:
 
I think that Mormon’s “preaching a gospel other than which [Paul] preached” is the most problematic. As with heresy of the past, this too diverts souls from Christ’s Church, the one He founded. The Mormon “another testament” is made more harmful considering that church’s strong missionary practices. They gobble-up poorly catechized or otherwise ignorant Catholics as they spread their false teachings (even though we were warned by Christ himself).

RAR
 
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