Devout Catholics who revolutionized science

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**Copernicus-**Catholic Priest and first astronomer to formulate a comprehensive heliocentric cosmology. Atomic Number 112 is named after him. (On a side note, many Atheists are outraged that Mother Teresa might be on a stamp because she was a nun. But no one objects to the atomic number being named after Father Copernicus).🤷

**Gregor Mandel-**Catholic Priest who is famous for being the father of genetic research.

**Georges Lemaitre-**Here’s an interesting one. Lemaitre was a Catholic priest who is the formulator of (here it comes) the big bang theory. I know, I was in shock too when I heard that for the first time.

**Galileo-**What happened to him was tragic and shouldn’t have happened, but he was like Copernicus and made that really big telescope

If you know some more, please post them.
 
Saint Albert the Great is knows just every field of study in his day.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Steno
This may, maybe a bishop, is considered the father of geology and, in particular, stratigraphy.

It seems like you are looking for more of the modern version of pure sciences. Note that modern day physics, chemistry and biology came from philosophy and many scientists were considered philosophers before these new brandings came out.
 
I’m not sure why the Church has a reputation among some for being anti-science. It was Catholic Europe that gave the world the Renaissance after all.

as for Galileo, I may be wrong but my understanding is that he was censured not for what he taught but because he taught when he had promised not to

also, the style of scientific writing at the time was to use Dialogs to examine an argument in a pseudo-conversation. IIRC the anti Copernican character in his book (who used some of the Popes own words) was called “Stupido” or some other similarly offensive name.
 
Louie Pastur(?) he developed pasturization. I remember hearing that he had a great devotion to the Rosary
 
The great philosopher of science Stanley Jaki, OSB, who died not too long ago was a great writer on scientists and the Catholic faith, including Pierre Duhem. Jaki’s books are hard to come by except used but see if your library can order them.
 
I’m not sure why the Church has a reputation among some for being anti-science. It was Catholic Europe that gave the world the Renaissance after all.

as for Galileo, I may be wrong but my understanding is that he was censured not for what he taught but because he taught when he had promised not to

also, the style of scientific writing at the time was to use Dialogs to examine an argument in a pseudo-conversation. IIRC the anti Copernican character in his book (who used some of the Popes own words) was called “Stupido” or some other similarly offensive name.
Here is a good explanation of the Galileo situation:

catholic.com/library/Galileo_Controversy.asp

Peace,
Ed
 
The reason why there were many faithful Catholic scientists needs some explanation.

As Rodney Stark explains the great figures in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries confessed their absolute faith in a creator God whose work incorporated rational rules awaiting discovery.

“The rise of science was not an extension of classical learning. It was the natural outgrowth of Christian doctrine: nature exists because it was created by God. In order to love and honor God, it is necessary to fully appreciate his handiwork. Because God is perfect, his handiwork functions in accord with immutable principles. By the full use of our God-given powers of reason and observation, it ought to be possible to discover these principles.

“These were the crucial ideas that explain why science arose in Christian Europe and nowhere else.” The Victory of Reason, Rodney Stark, Random House, 2005, p 22-23]
 
Blaise Pascal–we used Pascal’s Triangle to read and predict NMR spectra in organic chemistry a few weeks ago. 🙂
 
My patron, St. Joseph Moscati, was one of the first to experiment with using insulin to treat diabetes, as well.
 
I’m not sure why the Church has a reputation among some for being anti-science. It was Catholic Europe that gave the world the Renaissance after all.

as for Galileo, I may be wrong but my understanding is that he was censured not for what he taught but because he taught when he had promised not to

also, the style of scientific writing at the time was to use Dialogs to examine an argument in a pseudo-conversation. IIRC the anti Copernican character in his book (who used some of the Popes own words) was called “Stupido” or some other similarly offensive name.
Well, the ideal of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment are a bit of aways off from each other, given one’s emphasis on humanistic learning versus the others objectivist/rationalist goals.

As for your Church’s relationship with science, i think the nuanced claim of a complicated relationship is probably closer to the truth than extremist claims of either the Catholic Church as science stopper/starter.

It would probably be best to characterize it as “figidity.” For in some cases, your Church can be either neutral or beneficial to the field of study, and in others it can be obstructionist.

As for Galileo, well i find it odd that people seem to forget two important things:

1.) A number of cardinals and the Pope’s own nephew actually supported Galielo during his trial.

2.) Can we say Counter-reformation?

As much as any religious group would like to say their institution is immune to the vagaries of politics and society, we can’t really ignore the fact that your Church was undergoing a major theological and political challenge to its authority. Under such circumstances, its understandable as to why crushing descent on any matter would have been priority number 1.**

Had Gallilei come at a quieter/more stable time in your Church’s history, things might have gone differently. Heck, maybe it could have been “St. Gallileo, Doctor of the Church” at one point.

** Btw, for a more level-headed rationalist and advocate of science, this is where the Galileo incident probably has more resonance then with the dramatics of his personal life. The “crime” if you will was more to the fact that your organization had the ability to actively surpress an idea simply because it was bothered by it.

Don’t take that as an anti-religious comment however, as i can point to political ideologies and social movements that also did pretty much the same thing when their pet social theories encountered something within the natural sciences that shook its foundations.
 
TheAtheist
As for your Church’s relationship with science, i think the nuanced claim of a complicated relationship is probably closer to the truth than extremist claims of either the Catholic Church as science stopper/starter.
It would probably be best to characterize it as “figidity.” For in some cases, your Church can be either neutral or beneficial to the field of study, and in others it can be obstructionist.
Such assumptions are not facts.

In *Science and Creation *Father Stanley Jaki lists seven great cultures in which science suffered a “stillbirth” – Arabic, Babylonian, Chinese, Egyptian, Greek, Hindu, and Maya – they did not have the Catholic conception of the divine. Fr Jaki emphasises that “nature had to be de-animized” for science to be born. (Creation and Scientific Creativity, Paul Haffner, Christendom Press, 1991, p 41). “During the twelfth century in Latin Europe those aspects of Judeo-Christian thought which emphasized the idea of creation out of nothing and the distance between God and the world, in certain contexts and with certain men, had the effect of eliminating all semi-divine entities from the realm of nature.” (How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, Dr Thomas E Woods, Regnery, 2005, p 93).

Even Friedrich Nietzsche (‘God is dead’) wrote: “Strictly speaking there is no such thing as science ‘without any presuppositions’… a philosophy, a ‘faith’, must always be there first, so that science can acquire a direction, a meaning, a limit, a method, a right to exist… It is still a metaphysical faith that underlines our faith in science.” (Genealogy of Morals III, 23-24).

The question then is: in what faith does a scientist believe?

We have seen why science arose in Christian Europe and nowhere else – because of the doctrine of the Catholic Church. (Post #9).

Fr Stanley Jaki stresses that we do not see the flowering of formal and sustained scientific inquiry emerging from the other cultures’ sometimes impressive technology. (Woods, op.cit. p 77). “The earlier technical innovations of Greco-Roman times, of Islam, of imperial China, let alone those of pre-historic times, do not constitute science and are better described as lore, skills, wisdom, techniques, crafts, technologies, engineering, learning, or simply knowledge.” (For the Glory of God, Rodney Stark, Princeton University Press, 2003, p 125).
 
Such assumptions are not facts.
Excuse me? I’m not quite understanding the statement.
In *Science and Creation *Father Stanley Jaki lists seven great cultures in which science suffered a “stillbirth” – Arabic, Babylonian, Chinese, Egyptian, Greek, Hindu, and Maya – they did not have the Catholic conception of the divine. Fr Jaki emphasises that “nature had to be de-animized” for science to be born. (Creation and Scientific Creativity, Paul Haffner, Christendom Press, 1991, p 41). “During the twelfth century in Latin Europe those aspects of Judeo-Christian thought which emphasized the idea of creation out of nothing and the distance between God and the world, in certain contexts and with certain men, had the effect of eliminating all semi-divine entities from the realm of nature.” (How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, Dr Thomas E Woods, Regnery, 2005, p 93).
Ah, no one tutored in the History of Science would deny that statement, however the point was trying to make is not about the environmental conditions that gave birth to science. (After all, alternative renderings could favor that it was antagonistic environment between the questioning spirit of Greco-Roman philosophy and revealed religion that brought forth science as we know it today, although i tend to find that trajectory a little too…teleological?)

What i was pointing out however, is the relationship between the development of science and your Church as an institution. I do think i’m warranted in describing the relationship was “figidity” because its not entirely antagonistic nor does your Church enthusiastically embrace the sciences (although, the members of the Greek Orthodox Church i’ve spoken to tend to wag their fingers in your general direction precisely because you’ve “sold out” to rationalism at least by their accounts).

A world without capricious divinities changing the laws of the universe every 5 seconds does indeed set the stage or environment to even start to think about the movements and materia of the world as something that could come under predictable and rational analysis.

But this does not necessitate that your Church actively embraced/encouraged the findings of natural science or philosophy. There’s always been a kind of tendency to disavow it that stretches back all the way to the debate that Tertullian started with his statement about “What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?”

Even St. Augustine had to warn against that tendency:
“Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,… and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.”
  • St. Augustine, De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim (The Literal Meaning of Genesis)
The Condemnations of 1210, 1270, 1277 also put a “cap” on the natural philosophy of Aristotle simply because its speculations (and the extensions made Averroes/Ibn Rushd) were disturbing to established doctrine (the fact that 1277’s condemnation even extended to Thomas Aquinas’ work is rather astounding in my opinion).

That’s also a good example of what you stated above - in order to protect its dogma, Aristotle’s work was condemened. The side effect of that condemnation was to allow scholars of the time to consider possibilities outside of Aristotle’s natural philosophy ~ that in and of itself may have been a good shot in the arm for the birth of modern science.

BUT - remember. That was a side-effect. The councils that met weren’t seeking to advance the cause of natural philosophy - they wanted to protect Church doctrine.**

**And this still leaves behind the issue i raised before - namely the unjust actions of an organization to simply jettison/ban a set of ideas not only from their institution (which they may rightly do) but from public discourse itself.

Its one thing to argue your point (for/against) about a topic. Quite another to say “Your not allowed to speak/teach about the topic.”
 
TheAtheist
But this does not necessitate that your Church actively embraced/encouraged the findings of natural science or philosophy.…The Condemnations of 1210, 1270, 1277 also put a “cap” on the natural philosophy of Aristotle simply because its speculations (and the extensions made Averroes/Ibn Rushd) were disturbing to established doctrine (the fact that 1277’s condemnation even extended to Thomas Aquinas’ work is rather astounding in my opinion)…. in order to protect its dogma, Aristotle’s work was condemned….(the fact that 1277’s condemnation even extended to Thomas Aquinas’ work is rather astounding in my opinion).
Factually, the Church to which I belong is Christ’s Church. And, BTW, Her dogma and defined doctrine are infallible – it is Aristotle’s erroneous assumptions which have been cast aside.

[See: *How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, Dr Thomas E Woods, Regnery, 2005, Chapter Five]:

Now, while the Pope was less than enthusiastic with the condemnation of the Bishop of Paris (1277) [Richard Dales, *The Intellectual Life of Western Europe in the Middle Ages, 1980], Pierre Duhem, A.C. Crombie and Edward Grant have argued that the condemnations forced thinkers to break out of the intellectual confinement of Aristotelian presuppositions, from the restrictions of Aristotelian science and to adopt new thinking to the physical world.

Aristotle had denied the possibility of a vacuum, and the condemnations “seem definitely to have promoted a freer and more imaginative way of doing science.” (Dales, The De-Animation of the Heavens in the Middle Ages, p 550).

Another condemned Aristotelian proposition was that “the motions of the motion of the sky result from an intellectual soul,” which prompted new approaches to the central question of the behaviour of the heavenly bodies.

The denigration of the Church’s role in the development of science had been prevalent until the early twentieth century when historian Pierre Duhem underlined the Church’s crucial role and more and more historians have recognised this fact. (How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, Thomas E Woods Jr., Regnery Publishing, 2005, p 75).

Another Catholic development – the university – played a pivotal role in the rise of modern science, as did several priests.

As for the Arabs, while their translations of ancient Greek classics led to their dissemination in the Western world in the twelfth century, a profound development for Western intellectual history, contributions of Muslim scientists “typically occurred in spite of Islam rather than because of it. Orthodox Islamic scholars absolutely rejected any conception of the universe that involved consistent physical laws, because the absolute autonomy of Allah could not be restricted by natural laws. Apparent natural laws were nothing more than mere habits, so to speak, of Allah, and might be discontinued at any time.” (Woods, op. cit., p 79)

The twin pillars of Faith and Reason (Fides et Ratio, John Paul II) will always result in the best science – directed to the discovery of God’s laws and based on His natural moral law as to ends and means – with which Christ’s Church alone is fully equipped by Him to guide.

For further information, a highly acclaimed recent work is What’s So Great About Christianity, by Dinesh D’Souza, Regnery, 2007. He cites numerous world-class scientists who reject naturalism and materialism and are theists or Christians.
 
Factually, the Church to which I belong is Christ’s Church. And, BTW, Her dogma and defined doctrine are infallible – it is Aristotle’s erroneous assumptions which have been cast aside.
That wasn’t even the point I was driving at in the first place. :ouch:

The reason for casting aside those opinions was not to promote science, it was to defend a set of doctrines.
Now, while the Pope was less than enthusiastic with the condemnation of the Bishop of Paris (1277) [Richard Dales, *The Intellectual Life of Western Europe in the Middle Ages
, 1980], Pierre Duhem, A.C. Crombie and Edward Grant have argued that the condemnations forced thinkers to break out of the intellectual confinement of Aristotelian presuppositions, from the restrictions of Aristotelian science and to adopt new thinking to the physical world.

Yeah, i actually agreed with you - remember:
The side effect of that condemnation was to allow scholars of the time to consider possibilities outside of Aristotle’s natural philosophy ~that in and of itself may have been a good shot in the arm for the birth of modern science.
BUT - remember. That was a side-effect. The councils that met weren’t seeking to advance the cause of natural philosophy - they wanted to protect Church doctrine.**
As for this statement:
Orthodox Islamic scholars absolutely rejected any conception of the universe that involved consistent physical laws, because the absolute autonomy of Allah could not be restricted by natural laws. Apparent natural laws were nothing more than mere habits, so to speak, of Allah, and might be discontinued at any time.” (Woods, op. cit., p 79)
Which “Orthodox Islamic scholars” are you referring to? Heck, which time period are you referring to? The opinion of “Greek Knowledge” rapidly shifts from the beginning of the translation movement into the 14th century. The “hard-liner” stance in Islamic theology doesn’t appear early on, otherwise they wouldn’t have even bothered with translating Greek texts in the first place!
The denigration of the Church’s role in the development of science had been prevalent until the early twentieth century when historian Pierre Duhem underlined the Church’s crucial role and more and more historians have recognised this fact. (How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization, Thomas E Woods Jr., Regnery Publishing, 2005, p 75).
Ummm. I believe i was actually giving your Church its proper due. Many of the authors you mentioned (Duhem, Grant, et al) are standards within the field of History of Science.

But your overstating the claim, your taking an extremist position that places the Church at the center of scientific development. That is as unsubstantiated as the “movementarian atheists” or New Atheists or however you wish to brand the acolytes of Richard Dawkins who can only frame the relationship between religion and science in some sort of ahistorical format that invokes a war analogy.

But Abu, given the fact that you there is a distinct emotional tinge in your responses, i don’t even know how to field this.

Ok, so, i can do one of two things.

1.) Is there anyone in the “audience” who feels that my modest claim of the relationship between the Catholic Church and modern science as having neither an outright “warfare” stance nor a “Prime Engine of Scientific Discovery” stance, but rather having a more complicated interaction - if anyone feels that this erroneous would you kindly pipe in and address the points that Abu has attempted to tackle yet still seems to fall short of?

Or 2.), we can refer to Edward Grant himself: - grant@indiana.edu
 
1.) Is there anyone in the “audience” who feels that my modest claim of the relationship between the Catholic Church and modern science as having neither an outright “warfare” stance nor a “Prime Engine of Scientific Discovery” stance, but rather having a more complicated interaction - if anyone feels that this erroneous would you kindly pipe in and address the points that Abu has attempted to tackle yet still seems to fall short of?
TheAtheist, you did me a good favor back in the Buddhism thread. So let me return it.

Ignore the Troll. All he can do is cite references. I’m not even sure he’s even bothered to read your posts. Btw - how did you come up with Edward Grant’s email?

Oh and, you might want to mention a devout Catholic who revolutionized science? 😉
 
Oh and, you might want to mention a devout Catholic who revolutionized science? 😉
Of that i am remiss. To Gift, may i propose Monsignor Georges Lemaître, the Jesuit who elaborated the Big Bang Theory? There is a great debt owed to him for his work.
Btw - how did you come up with Edward Grant’s email?
A long long time ago, during a colloquium i had to attend, there was a presenter who some of us in the audience felt as is if he was attempting to pass off his own theories as that of his teacher and essentially “free riding” on his authority.

So you might say, we called him on it - by ringing his mentor who flatly denied it as a mischaracterization of his views.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way. 👍
 
**Copernicus-**Catholic Priest and first astronomer to formulate a comprehensive heliocentric cosmology. Atomic Number 112 is named after him. (On a side note, many Atheists are outraged that Mother Teresa might be on a stamp because she was a nun. But no one objects to the atomic number being named after Father Copernicus).🤷

**Gregor Mandel-**Catholic Priest who is famous for being the father of genetic research.

**Georges Lemaitre-**Here’s an interesting one. Lemaitre was a Catholic priest who is the formulator of (here it comes) the big bang theory. I know, I was in shock too when I heard that for the first time.

**Galileo-**What happened to him was tragic and shouldn’t have happened, but he was like Copernicus and made that really big telescope

If you know some more, please post them.
Here are a few more that I don’t believe were mentioned:

Henri Becquerel - physicist, co-discoverer of radioactivity
Erwin Schroedinger - physicist, quantum mechanics, wave equation
Pierre de Chardin - Jesuit priest and paleontologist (Peking Man)
Antoine Lavoisier - father of modern chemistry
Agustin Fresnel - optics, the fresnel lens
Agustinde Coulomb - physicist, coulomb’s law

Yppop
 
TheAtheist
an extremist position that places the Church at the center of scientific development ….unsubstantiated
Unsubstantiated?

Perhaps post #9 was missed: “The rise of science was not an extension of classical learning. It was the natural outgrowth of Christian doctrine: nature exists because it was created by God. In order to love and honor God, it is necessary to fully appreciate his handiwork. Because God is perfect, his handiwork functions in accord with immutable principles. By the full use of our God-given powers of reason and observation, it ought to be possible to discover these principles.

These were the crucial ideas that explain why science arose in Christian Europe and nowhere else.” The Victory of Reason, Rodney Stark, Random House, 2005, p 22-23. My emphasis].

These are the reasons that explain the fact that the theology and philosophy of the Catholic Church motivated and enabled the flowering of science. As no other religious society had these crucial ideas, ALL others failed to spark scientific achievement (post #13). It is a classic example of cause and effect to produce a watershed in science.
Hardly unsubstantiated, but a failure to acknowledge the immensity of the cause and effect.

Alfred North Whitehead, F.R.S., knew that Catholic theology was essential for the rise of science in the West, while stifled elsewhere. He explained: "The greatest contribution of medievalism to the scientific movement [was] the inexpugnable belief that …there is a secret, a secret which can be unveiled. How has this conviction been so vividly implanted in the European mind?..It must come from the medieval insistence on the rationality of God, conceived with the personal energy of Jehovah and with the rationality of a Greek philosopher. Every detail was supervised and ordered: the search into nature could only result in the vindication of the faith in rationality.” [E.L. Jones, 1987; in Stark, op.cit., p 15].

See Catholicism and Science by Rodney Stark (from Catalyst 9/2004) at:
catholicleague.org/research/catholicism_and_science.htm

Others have named some Catholic scientists instrumental in this watershed in science which arose only in the West.
 
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