DH got a vasectomy while I was out of town

[Listener]

A lot of people are interpreting this as a terrible thing that your husband did to you. Well, I can sure see his side of it. It said in your post that you have 5 kids, 2 from a previous marriage. That is really quite a large family. I can understand how your husband could be feeling desperate. He is trying to support all of those kids, and maybe he couldn’t imagine supporting more kids on top of that.

It seems to me that the two of you must not have been in agreement on how many kids to have. Why else would he be sneaking around like that?

Just as women have been known to say such things as “My body, my choice,” maybe some men feel that they have the right to do what they choose to their own body.

What he did is against the teachings of the Catholic Church, but I’m not sure that other churches say that this is wrong. Since you said he is not Catholic, I’m not sure what would make him feel guilty about doing it, except for the fact that both of you didn’t agree to it.

As for practicing NFP, I can’t think of any reason why you would want to do that. What if his procedure failed and you got pregnant again. Isn’t that what you were hoping for?

If I were you, I think I would just forgive him and thank my lucky stars that I wouldn’t have to be pregnant again.

 

[joanofarc2008]

A lot of people are interpreting this as a terrible thing that your husband did to you. Well, I can sure see his side of it. It said in your post that you have 5 kids, 2 from a previous marriage. That is really quite a large family. I can understand how your husband could be feeling desperate. He is trying to support all of those kids, and maybe he couldn’t imagine supporting more kids on top of that.

It seems to me that the two of you must not have been in agreement on how many kids to have. Why else would he be sneaking around like that?

Just as women have been known to say such things as “My body, my choice,” maybe some men feel that they have the right to do what they choose to their own body.

What he did is against the teachings of the Catholic Church, but I’m not sure that other churches say that this is wrong. Since you said he is not Catholic, I’m not sure what would make him feel guilty about doing it, except for the fact that both of you didn’t agree to it.

As for practicing NFP, I can’t think of any reason why you would want to do that. What if his procedure failed and you got pregnant again. Isn’t that what you were hoping for?

If I were you, I think I would just forgive him and thank my lucky stars that I wouldn’t have to be pregnant again.

They may wish to practice NFP as a couple as penance in order to allow her to better feel like the Holy Spirit is a part of the maritial embrace.

 

[terri_fortner]

A lot of people are interpreting this as a terrible thing that your husband did to you. Well, I can sure see his side of it. It said in your post that you have 5 kids, 2 from a previous marriage. That is really quite a large family. I can understand how your husband could be feeling desperate. He is trying to support all of those kids, and maybe he couldn’t imagine supporting more kids on top of that.

It’s not so much the action he took. I can understand why he did it- I always knew he would eventually, but I thought it would be something he would talk to me about and that we would have full disclosure, it was the deceit that really hurt. We have no problems supporting the kids we have, and he knows that as we have added to the family the costs to support the new child have not really added to the costs of our expenses.

It seems to me that the two of you must not have been in agreement on how many kids to have. Why else would he be sneaking around like that?

There was never a number, he wanted kids, but we talk about it, again I thought it was talk that was yet to happen, apparently it was a talk he didn’t want to have. He’d rather deal with the fallout after its over than deal with the conflict leading up to it. We have always talked about the next one we’ll name Patrick. Even before my youngest daughter was born.We wanted another boy, I am not sure when that changed because he never talked to me BEFORE he had the procedure.

Just as women have been known to say such things as “My body, my choice,” maybe some men feel that they have the right to do what they choose to their own body.

But it’s not “my body, my choice” When you give your life to God, it’s His body, and you treat it as such. When you get married the two become one, so its not his body, or my body- its our body. Its God’s prerogative to put little people in my womb. Its my job to accept them into my family with loving arms, and when the man I love and share my life with steps in and prevents me from doing that without even telling me it hurts. I am grieving for the children I will never have.

What he did is against the teachings of the Catholic Church, but I’m not sure that other churches say that this is wrong. Since you said he is not Catholic, I’m not sure what would make him feel guilty about doing it, except for the fact that both of you didn’t agree to it.

I don’t want him feeling guilty- I feel guilty that he went through it all by himself, that he didn’t have any support with him, or anyone to take care of him afterwards. He does feel bad about not talking to me, but that’s hindsight.

As for practicing NFP, I can’t think of any reason why you would want to do that. What if his procedure failed and you got pregnant again. Isn’t that what you were hoping for?

I am not hoping his vasectomy fails. I am hoping that God blesses us with all the children He wants, and that I am open to taking them with Joy in my heart. I want my husband to feel this way too, but I can not make him feel this way, and that makes me sad. Sad for him, and sad for us.

If I were you, I think I would just forgive him and thank my lucky stars that I wouldn’t have to be pregnant again.

I happen to love being pregnant- its a wonderful feeling to know God put a life inside of you. That He trusts you so much to bless you with the love and care of another one of His children. I am trying to forgive my husband, its the best I got right now. I love him, and I want to forgive him, maybe I already have, but it doesn’t take the pain of how he lied to me, and deceived me. Time will help that.

 

[Listener]

They may wish to practice NFP as a couple as penance in order to allow her to better feel like the Holy Spirit is a part of the maritial embrace.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t get this. When you practice NFP, you’re trying NOT to get pregnant. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is not part of the marital embrace when people don’t bother with NFP? I would think that in this case, the wife would want to do just the opposite, making her feel like she’s open to life. After all, I’m sure there must be a small number of vasectomies that fail.

 

[Corki]

I’m sorry, but I just don’t get this. When you practice NFP, you’re trying NOT to get pregnant. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is not part of the marital embrace when people don’t bother with NFP? I would think that in this case, the wife would want to do just the opposite, making her feel like she’s open to life. After all, I’m sure there must be a small number of vasectomies that fail.

Sterilization is a grave offense against marriage. A couple sharing a sterilized marital embrace is not inviting the Holy Spirit into their lovemaking. Ordinarily, Sacramental Confession can remedy this but the couple in the OP is not Catholic.

The Holy Spirit is part of every marital embrace that does not shut the HS out. Contraception and Sterilization do that.

 

[joanofarc2008]

I’m sorry, but I just don’t get this. When you practice NFP, you’re trying NOT to get pregnant. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit is not part of the marital embrace when people don’t bother with NFP? I would think that in this case, the wife would want to do just the opposite, making her feel like she’s open to life. After all, I’m sure there must be a small number of vasectomies that fail.

Not necessarily NFP can be practiced both to avoid or to try to conceive or in order to chart to prevent or to detect medical issues. In cases where a member of a married couple has been sterilized and wants to make a true act of contrition then sometimes it is helpful as a form of penance to practice NFP in order to work on self-mastery. NFP as a form self-mastery brings the couple closer which in a situation like this is very much an issue.

 

[faithfully]

I don’t know what it is… But every woman that I know that has had her fertility silenced for one reason or another goes through a mourning stage.

I imagine having your fertilty basically taken away without so much as a word is quite sad. You’ve suddenly lost the ability to have children… and no one even touched you. That’s got to hurt when someone just took that from you. That you couldn’t even come to some sort of agreement or understanding.

I hope the sting of this will wear off.

@Listener… step back a moment. I understand perhaps not wanting to feed more children. However, to just go out and do this? It says I want full access to your body, but I don’t want to risk having another child with you. Even though you’d like more. I’d like to remove your choice in the matter. So, I made the choice for us. Knowing you wouldn’t agree… that’s why I was sneaky about it…

just ICK!

 

[Warrior1979]

But it’s not “my body, my choice” When you give your life to God, it’s His body, and you treat it as such. When you get married the two become one, so its not his body, or my body- its our body. Its God’s prerogative to put little people in my womb. Its my job to accept them into my family with loving arms, and when the man I love and share my life with steps in and prevents me from doing that without even telling me it hurts. I am grieving for the children I will never have.

Sterilization only stops you from having more biological children. It does not prevent you from adopting or fostering.

 

[StarFireKK]

Maybe the other posters missed this but: He’s not Catholic. And he and the OP were not married in the Catholic Church. I don’t think he has an obligation to follow the Catholic teachings (other than our belief it is the one true faith). The OP said she was trying to live the Catholic faith but not that her husband was. The Church does agree that the spouse’s view must be respected and they are allowed to practice their beliefs. I don’t know where that falls on the sticky issue of being open to life but I think it really needs to be discussed with the priest.

OP I am so sorry you are going through this. I can imagine that you are very hurt and very upset. But part of being married is to help your partner get to heaven (i.e. be Christ to one another) this means you must forgive him. You also must realized that there was obviously a communication failure here. He obviously felt you weren’t hearing him when he was trying to tell you his concerns. You mentioned that you kept saying “lets talk about it later” when was later suppose to be? When you thought you were preg again? You obviously wanted another child and he just as obviously didn’t…punting the discussion was kinda passive aggressive.

Men like to have solutions and solve things. I think what he did was over the line. But people do over the line stuff all the time. You need to forgive hm and work on where the communication failed so such a thing doesn’t happen again.

Everyone is talking about a big breach in trust and I agree with that. But I think the lack of trust was on both sides.

 

[Phemie]

This isn’t about the Church.

It’s about a very serious decision that needs to be made by two people, but was made by one person.

Church-wise, I don 't know if this would be grounds for an annulment, but I would sure hope so.

Unless it could be proved that he never intented to have children when they got married, there is no ground for an annulment here – any more than there would be if he had an affair, unless he married with the intention of being unfaithful.

Yes, marriage counselling is definitely in order because what he did was a great betrayal.

 

[Phemie]

Not necessarily NFP can be practiced both to avoid or to try to conceive or in order to chart to prevent or to detect medical issues. In cases where a member of a married couple has been sterilized and wants to make a true act of contrition then sometimes it is helpful as a form of penance to practice NFP in order to work on self-mastery. NFP as a form self-mastery brings the couple closer which in a situation like this is very much an issue.

Doubt that this would bring this couple closer. If he wasn’t open to NFP to actually prevent pregnancy, I don’t imagine he’d take kindly to it as penance for something he doesn’t consider to be wrong in the first place.

 

[OriginalJS]

You can still be open to life even if your husband had a vasectomy. Many Catholic marriage partners have to live with their spouses who lead unfortunate lives and do things the church frowns upon. Since this is your third marriage you should think very hard before trying to terminate this one, as some seem to suggest.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Doubt that this would bring this couple closer. If he wasn’t open to NFP to actually prevent pregnancy, I don’t imagine he’d take kindly to it as penance for something he doesn’t consider to be wrong in the first place.

Every Saint had a past; every sinner has a future. Who are we to judge whether he will have a change of heart brought on through good communication skills being fostered, open communication, and finally being able to see the hurt he has caused his wife. After all has everyone on this board always been perfect?

 

[terri_fortner]

Maybe the other posters missed this but: He’s not Catholic. And he and the OP were not married in the Catholic Church. I don’t think he has an obligation to follow the Catholic teachings (other than our belief it is the one true faith). The OP said she was trying to live the Catholic faith but not that her husband was. The Church does agree that the spouse’s view must be respected and they are allowed to practice their beliefs. I don’t know where that falls on the sticky issue of being open to life but I think it really needs to be discussed with the priest.

OP I am so sorry you are going through this. I can imagine that you are very hurt and very upset. But part of being married is to help your partner get to heaven (i.e. be Christ to one another) this means you must forgive him. You also must realized that there was obviously a communication failure here. He obviously felt you weren’t hearing him when he was trying to tell you his concerns. You mentioned that you kept saying “lets talk about it later” when was later suppose to be? When you thought you were preg again? You obviously wanted another child and he just as obviously didn’t…punting the discussion was kinda passive aggressive.

Men like to have solutions and solve things. I think what he did was over the line. But people do over the line stuff all the time. You need to forgive hm and work on where the communication failed so such a thing doesn’t happen again.

Everyone is talking about a big breach in trust and I agree with that. But I think the lack of trust was on both sides.

I think you are totally right. It was a total failure of communication. Its not so much I had a lets talk about it later plan. We did talk about it, and I thought we had agreed to really give NFP a chance- since we had not been doing that- obviously that was not where the conversation ended. We both missed the opportunity to communicate on the issue. He didn’t trust me to support him in this, and I don’t trust him to be honest and open with me.

I would have went with him, and taken care of him after, and still love him, and I would have still felt some of the hurt I am feeling now, but I don’t think it would have been so sharp, or severe. Honestly a few days have helped, and a lot of prayer. He’s even been praying with me. I really did think we would have another son, I thought he was on the same page about that too. Obviously I was wrong there too. We will talk to our counselor and I will talk to the priest. And we have been talking to each other I hope we continue to talk to each other. I’ll do my best to try to keep the communication open.

 

[terri_fortner]

You can still be open to life even if your husband had a vasectomy. Many Catholic marriage partners have to live with their spouses who lead unfortunate lives and do things the church frowns upon. Since this is your third marriage you should think very hard before trying to terminate this one, as some seem to suggest.

This is my second marriage I was young when I married my first husband we had 2 children I waited for him to leave the country- for safety reasons- and filed for separation. That marriage was annulled as was my husband’s first marriage. He was blown up in Iraq and came home and married his exgirlfriend who had just had a baby (not his). So this marriage is recognized by the church as valid, and it is assumed to be sacramental- we were married in a courthouse 5 days before he left for Afghanistan for 15 months. I am **not **thinking about divorcing my husband. It would take something really major for that to happen, more so than even this. I think all things can be fixed with God’s help, and He is certainly helping me here.

 

[Snugglebugmom]

If I were you, I think I would just forgive him and thank my lucky stars that I wouldn’t have to be pregnant again.

This statement is terribly short-sighted and blunt. What a horrible thing to say to someone who has just had the chance to ever become pregnant again taken away from her!

To the OP: what your husband did, is an extreme breach of marital trust, Catholic or no. I think you have a very realistic take on things, you see the situation for what it is, you know your options and what you want. What is left, is this terrible hurt that you have to lug around and deal with. You know it will get better, but you’re not there yet. You’re in my prayers!

 

[terri_fortner]

This statement is terribly short-sighted and blunt. What a horrible thing to say to someone who has just had the chance to ever become pregnant again taken away from her!

To the OP: what your husband did, is an extreme breach of marital trust, Catholic or no. I think you have a very realistic take on things, you see the situation for what it is, you know your options and what you want. What is left, is this terrible hurt that you have to lug around and deal with. You know it will get better, but you’re not there yet. You’re in my prayers!

Thank you.

 

[Alix1912]

I happen to love being pregnant- its a wonderful feeling to know God put a life inside of you. That He trusts you so much to bless you with the love and care of another one of His children.

I’m glad you like being pregnant…for those of us with brutally difficult pregnancies, it’s really not all sunshine and roses.

Maybe the other posters missed this but: He’s not Catholic. And he and the OP were not married in the Catholic Church. I don’t think he has an obligation to follow the Catholic teachings (other than our belief it is the one true faith). The OP said she was trying to live the Catholic faith but not that her husband was. The Church does agree that the spouse’s view must be respected and they are allowed to practice their beliefs. I don’t know where that falls on the sticky issue of being open to life but I think it really needs to be discussed with the priest.

OP I am so sorry you are going through this. I can imagine that you are very hurt and very upset. But part of being married is to help your partner get to heaven (i.e. be Christ to one another) this means you must forgive him. You also must realized that there was obviously a communication failure here. He obviously felt you weren’t hearing him when he was trying to tell you his concerns. You mentioned that you kept saying “lets talk about it later” when was later suppose to be? When you thought you were preg again? You obviously wanted another child and he just as obviously didn’t…punting the discussion was kinda passive aggressive.

Men like to have solutions and solve things. I think what he did was over the line. But people do over the line stuff all the time. You need to forgive hm and work on where the communication failed so such a thing doesn’t happen again.

Everyone is talking about a big breach in trust and I agree with that. But I think the lack of trust was on both sides.

I agree with this totally. It’s easy on this forum to fall into an echo chamber situation. Most everyone is Catholic, so the Catholic spouse is always sympathized with and the non catholic spouses reasons or feelings are often swept under the rug. Technically neither of your are Catholic. You are trying to become Catholic, but your husband is not. You have chosen to embrace a new faith, this faith comes with a lot of rules and restrictions that govern your life (not saying this is bad), however they also greatly effect your spouse as well, who did not chose to convert to this religon.

As you have admitted there has been a gross mis communication here. You thought he was OK with your new path for managing the growth of your family and obviously he was not, and felt pressured, to use your your method of birth control (NFP).

I know this feeling exactly. My husband returned to the Catholic Church AFTER we were married. We use NFP because my husband is Catholic. However, I am not Catholic and the LCMS has no issues with non abortificant methods of BC. Unfortunaly the simplest form of barrier method is a condom, and obviously my husband isn’t OK with that, nor would I ask him to be. However that leaves us with NFP which means we will be able to have sex about 2 days a month, once I start cycling regularly again, as I am unwilling to take any risks. At this time physically, and emotionally I can not take care of the two very young kids (22 months and 2 months) we have now and be pregnant again (my pregnancies are HORRIBLE). So I am extremely frustrated at this time, as a church I’m not a member of is dictating how I live my life. Believe me I have thought about getting my tubes tied in about 5 years without telling him more than once. I would not do it without telling him as it is a huge breach of trust, but I can say that the thought has gone through my mind. If I felt backed into a corner, and that my husband wasn’t at least hearing my concerns it would be much more tempting.

What he did was wrong, but to just lump blame on him isn’t helpful. Blame lies on both parties here for failing to work out this issue in a manner acceptable to both people.

 

[littlebum2002]

I feel like sex with him is wrong because we aren’t open to life anymore. I feel so betrayed, and like he has painted my soul into a corner. I need some help here.

You aren’t open to life having sex while you are infertile, either.

The Church’s stance on abstinence and sterility is hypocritical. There are only two stances that one can have that are NOT hypocritical:

1. Having sex with virtually no chance of conception is OK. In this case, having sex during infertile times, wearing a condom, and getting a vasectomy are all perfectly morally acceptable.
2. Having sex with virtually no chance of conception is not OK. In this case, the only possible times you should have sex are when you are fertile, and cannot use condoms or get a vasectomy.

(Note I have not mentioned hormonal birth control, which may cause abortions and therefore has other reasons for being morally unacceptable)

There is no logical explanation for the Church’s moral teachings on condoms and vasectomies. It seems like they made up their mind, and made up an explanation to fit their already formed moral beliefs which is sketchy at best. If God wants you to have a baby when you re not fertile, you will have one. if God wants you to have a baby when you are not fertile, and your husband has had a vasectomy, is wearing a condom, and you have had a tubal ligation and are using a spermicidal diaphragm, you will have a baby. God made a virgin pregnant, do you really think a vasectomy can stop Him?

The only sin your husband committed, in my opinion, is not discussing it with you. This was a violation of you trust. Since your marriage, your bodies became one, and therefore both should be consulted on any medical procedures for either. What if something had happened during surgery, and he never got to tell you good-bye?
I am considering a vasectomy myself, and am discussing the matter with my wife.

Whether or not you believe a vasectomy is a sin is up to you (but please have a better reason than the lousy sham of an excuse the Church uses). But tell your husband, from one practicing Catholic who is morally OK with a vasectomy to another, that he was completely wrong in doing this behind your back.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

You are 100% wrong. Having a vasectomy is a mortal sin BECAUSE the aim is to stop fertility. It is not a sin because people BELIEVE it to be a sin, but because God designed our bodies to create new life.

The Church is not wrong because God is not wrong.

And BTW, this thread is 8 mos old and the OP didn’t revive it.