Sair:
So, you actually think I am not comparing per capita numbers? I’m stupid, but not that stupid, I hope! Wallow around on the web, and you’ll find that, person per person, Christians give hundreds of dollars more per year than do non-theists. More than likely, in the neighborhood of 70% - 80% more!
Well, your previous observation didn’t seem to indicate a statistical comparison. I have not done such a statistical comparison, so can’t comment other than the observation I made previously. Speaking as a nonbeliever who does, in fact, donate to several charities, I know not what generally motivates people to give or refrain from giving. I know people like to quote high-profile examples, such as Peter Singer (who recommends giving a quarter of one’s income to charity, and practises what he preaches) - but that doesn’t really mean much when it comes down to overall numbers. Be that as it may, I would have thought charitable donation alone was rather a narrow measure of the good done by any particular group of people in society, even if it is one of the easiest things to measure. I wonder if the amount of ‘good’ attending to religious believers over nonbelievers would seem higher if one took into account things like volunteer work, caring occupations, innovators, just people quietly doing their bit to make the world a better place? Hard to measure, but worth some thought.
Then, only (all) Christians have agendas? The Christian might attempt to put some thought-provoking rhetoric out to non-theists, but, in general, we don’t care about what atheists do for Christmas. If I know one, and I do, they will be invited to any holiday celebration just as any of my Christian friends would be. On the other hand, certainly the same cannot be said of atheists! Question: what harm is there with Christians putting up a Christmas display even in a public place? Where’s the harm?
Well, I don’t think there’s any harm in putting up Christmas displays, although I attach a rather different meaning to them than do those who actually put them up. Nor do I think there’s any harm in having men dressed as Santa Claus wandering through shopping centres waving bells, but again, I don’t invest any belief in it. If these things make people happy, why not, say I - but there are those who feel that this kind of thing is the pernicious encroachment of religion on the rest of society. If it’s just there, and people are aware of it, that’s not the same as ramming it down people’s throats, or actively intruding on people’s consciousness, a-la Jehova’s Witnesses with their door-knocking. I’m inclined to think that those who protest about the inclusion of religious imagery in everyday situations are a little bit uptight; as is so often said towards believers, if they are secure in their beliefs, they ought to be able to cope with having them questioned or challenged - the same is true of atheists.
It’s interesting, though, this back-and-forth accusation of having an ‘agenda’. When we get down to brass tacks, everyone has an agenda, in the sense of having a preferred state of affairs - some people are more committed to actively bringing about that state of affairs, and they are the ones who tend to intrude on people’s awareness. But it seems rather ridiculous to accuse atheists collectively of wanting to destroy religion, when if you scratched the surface, I suspect most believers would find it favourable to destroy atheism as well.
When we write, we are not hidden from public view, you know.
Quite so, although I would still dispute that there was anything in my previous post that indicated a derogatory judgement formed of the comprehension of the person to whom I was responding. I simply pointed out what I believed to be the case, in response to a claim that it wasn’t. If it came across as derogatory, I apologise. But I will endeavour to correct what I feel to be misconceptions, if I think it is within my ability to do so.
It’s simple to me: just treat us in the same manner that you wish to be treated. (And, ignore the vitriolic.) If you treat us as idiot children, we may respond with similar rhetoric. That said, perhaps we can now have a two-way conversation?
As you say, writing on a public forum puts people on show - I try to be polite, but I don’t flinch from raising points that may be offensive to some people’s beliefs, nor will I ignore obvious attempts to belittle my own views. I will own that I find some beliefs to be, in themselves, rather stupid. That is my honest opinion. No doubt there are those who would find my beliefs stupid for various reasons. However, I do appreciate actual discussion, rather than blanket dismissal, or what is worse, the holier-than-thou approach that runs along the lines of, “Well, if you don’t know, it’s not my business to enlighten you” which I’ve seen on occasion. There’s no better way to reveal one’s own ignorance!
