Diaconate part of the priesthood?

[Vico]

In the Coptic Tradition, the rules for marriage are the same for deacons as for priests. That is, a deacon cannot marry after ordination. Is it the same in the Latin and Byzantine Traditions?

The Diaconate is not part of the priesthood in the Coptic Tradition. Deacons can’t perform sacerdotal functions. Also, though the diaconate is not considered as a stepping stone to priesthood, deacons who are worthy of it may be promoted to that order. But a deacon cannot be promoted without the approval of the congregation.

Question: I attended a vesting ceremony for a deacon in a Latin church once. IIRC (anyone correct me please), the congregation was asked to accept the deacon. Does the acceptance of the congregation indicate entry into the diaconate, or does it refer simply to his acceptance into the local community?

Question: Are deacons considered ordinary or extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist in the Latin Church?

Blessings,
Marduk

I cannot answer the question about the promotion of a deacon to the priesthood.

Deacons in both the Latin and Byzantine traditions cannot marry after ordination, which includes deacons, priests, and bishops. (I believe this is true of all Catholic Churches sui iuris.)

There is a difference between the Latin and Eastern Catholic practice with regard to deacons and the mysteries. The Latin deacon can baptise and witness matrimony, but it is not normal for Eastern Catholic deacons to do these things (the eastern deacon may baptise only in extraordinary circumstances).

Deacons, priests, and bishops are ordinary ministers of the Eucharist in the Latin Church.

 

[5Loaves]

Deacons in both the Latin and Byzantine traditions cannot marry after ordination, which includes deacons, priests, and bishops. (I believe this is true of all Catholic Churches sui iuris.)

I thought they couldn’t marry once they were at a certain point in their seminary training, so actually before the ordination.

Is there no economea in the West if the deacon or priest has young children that he may remarry, as is true for Orthodox?

 

[Deacon2006]

Priests first gain the authority to do many of the things that we associate priests doing when they become deacons and not when the become priests. They gain the authority to do most important things when they are ordained priests.

In the west it is at the ordination of diaconate that we are ordinarily allowed to preside at liturgies for the church (not the mass) We can bless objects, lead pray, baptize, conduct weddings and bury the dead. We preach the word at mass and proclaim the Gospel.

What we don’t do is sacerdotal priestly things that is make Eucharistic offerings for the forgiveness of sins, Forgiveness of sins outside of the baptism are reserved to the priest and bishop.

God Bless

 

[ciero]

Priests first gain the authority to do many of the things that we associate priests doing when they become deacons and not when the become priests. They gain the authority to do most important things when they are ordained priests.

**In the west it is at the ordination of diaconate that we are ordinarily allowed to preside at liturgies for the church (not the mass) We can bless objects, lead pray, baptize, conduct weddings and bury the dead. We preach the word at mass and proclaim the Gospel.
**
What we don’t do is sacerdotal priestly things that is make Eucharistic offerings for the forgiveness of sins, Forgiveness of sins outside of the baptism are reserved to the priest and bishop.

God Bless

In the West these functions now allowed to the deacon,were reserved to the priest before Vatican II. There is no historical evidence that prior to Vatican II deacons in ANY Apostolic church could do such things.

 

[dvdjs]

Originally Posted by Deacon2006

Priests first gain the authority to do many of the things that we associate priests doing when they become deacons and not when the become priests. They gain the authority to do most important things when they are ordained priests.

In the west it is at the ordination of diaconate that we are ordinarily allowed to preside at liturgies for the church (not the mass) We can bless objects, lead pray, baptize, conduct weddings and bury the dead. We preach the word at mass and proclaim the Gospel.

What we don’t do is sacerdotal priestly things that is make Eucharistic offerings for the forgiveness of sins, Forgiveness of sins outside of the baptism are reserved to the priest and bishop.

In the West these functions now allowed to the deacon,were reserved to the priest before Vatican II. There is no historical evidence that prior to Vatican II deacons in ANY Apostolic church could do such things.

Are you sure of this?

In the OCA parish that I frequent, the Deacon always does the Gospel reading and preaching is sometimes done by the deacon (or a sub-deacon): is this a post a VII innovation? I have read in many places that a role for deaconess in the ancient EO was the baptism of women. Burying the dead? Not sacramental.

Just asking.

 

[Deacon2006]

In the West these functions now allowed to the deacon,were reserved to the priest before Vatican II. There is no historical evidence that prior to Vatican II deacons in ANY Apostolic church could do such things.

Completely untrue and while I do not know your motivation for saying what you did it seems to me a simple history lesson of the diaconate is in order.

The most ancient tradition of the deacon is to proclaim the word of God at the liturgy ie the gospel that is why he is presented with the book of the Gospels and this goes back to all the ancient ordination rites of the deacon. Baptism is recorded in the book of Acts which is done by deacons so I have no idea on what basis you make your assessment

Try reading The council of Trent to see what the church wanted deacons to do over 400 years ago and if you are really in for an a mind stretch read the patristic fathers like Cyprian in which he even allowed deacons in** dire** situation the authority to hear confessions . Or read Didascalia Apostolorum That likens the Bishop to The Father and the Deacon to Jesus Christ.

The idea that “priest only” as cooperator with the Bishop is not from God and is rejected by scripture and Church from the beginning. Faithful deacons do not see themselves as priests they see themselves as deacons with the full faculties of ordination as deacons which is granted by their Bishop and God.

Deacons serve, they are not priests of sacrifice, but they do share in the indelible mark of ordination. The fact that many only wish to say that this mark appears exclusively with the elders and overseers and not deacons is not a historical or a Christian position.

Who would say that if you have not had all three sacraments of initiation that you are not baptized. Similarly just because a deacon does not have the fullness of ordination does not mean that they do not share in the ordination of their Bishop? A full thimble is not a full bucket but they are both full and lacking nothing.

Merry Christmas

 

[Aramis]

In the Coptic Tradition, the rules for marriage are the same for deacons as for priests. That is, a deacon cannot marry after ordination. Is it the same in the Latin and Byzantine Traditions?

Latin: married men may be ordained deacons, but may not be made priests unless widowed, and even then, it is discouraged.

Byzantine: yes, the same.

The Diaconate is not part of the priesthood in the Coptic Tradition. Deacons can’t perform sacerdotal functions. Also, though the diaconate is not considered as a stepping stone to priesthood, deacons who are worthy of it may be promoted to that order. But a deacon cannot be promoted without the approval of the congregation.

Sacerdotal priesthood is a subset of priesthood; Latin theology includes lesser forms of priesthood, most notably, the priesthood of the elect. This is also part of why the different understanding of sacramental marriage and extraordinary ministry exists.

The aspects of the sacerdotal priesthood that are unique are the ability to confect the eucharist, to absolve sins, to confer the sacrament of confirmation/chrismation.

Rome considers the deacon competent to be celebrant of most non-eucharistic liturgies, and does not routinely distinguish paraliturgical vs liturgical services. The deacon is also competent to confer most blessings in the Roman Book of Blessings.

The Roman EF and it’s related paraliturgical prayers makes no provision for deaconal ministry outside the high mass.

The Byzantine Rite has a bit of a spectrum. In no byzantine church does the deacon have the default faculty to bless; some have been granted a limited faculty to bless as a latinization, or as part of biritual faculties. The function of a deacon as proper extraordinary celebrant of the paraliturgical prayers is an old Kyivan tradition, and is in use in the Russian Orthodox, Ruthenian Catholic, and Ukrainian Churches: the Deaconal Typica with Communion is specific for parishes and missions with deacons, and while not a default faculty, may be granted. In most other of the byzantine churches, he may lead only those liturgies which may be led by a layman, and usually does so as if a layman…

Question: I attended a vesting ceremony for a deacon in a Latin church once. IIRC (anyone correct me please), the congregation was asked to accept the deacon. Does the acceptance of the congregation indicate entry into the diaconate, or does it refer simply to his acceptance into the local community?

All converts from orthodoxy I’ve seen received are “received” by the community by acclimation following their profession of the faith. Same with all other catechumens.

Question: Are deacons considered ordinary or extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist in the Latin Church?

Blessings,
Marduk

they are never “ministers of the eucharist” - that term is specifically for he who can confect the Eucharist, namely, priests and bishops. The proper term is Minister of Holy Communion, or more casually, Minister of Communion.

In the OF, they are the proper minister of the cup, and an ordinary minister of communion. (The proper extraordinary minister is the Acolyte, be he ordained or instituted.)

In the EF, they are the proper extraordinary minister of communion. (And only bishops, priests, deacons, subdeacons, and acolytes are permitted to be ministers of communion.)

 

[Vico]

I thought they couldn’t marry once they were at a certain point in their seminary training, so actually before the ordination.

Is there no economea in the West if the deacon or priest has young children that he may remarry, as is true for Orthodox?

Latin Canon 266
Can. 266 §1 By the reception of the diaconate a person becomes a cleric, and is incardinated in the particular Church or personal Prelature for whose service he is ordained.

CCEO Canon 358
Through diaconal ordination a man is enrolled as a cleric in the eparchy for whose service he is ordained unless, according to the norm of the particular law of his own Church sui iuris, he has already been enrolled in the same eparchy.

No marriage after ordination is the rule. It is typically in the last year of seminary when one is ordained to the diaconate. The equivalent to economea is indult or dispensation, which could be given to allow marriage of a widowed deacon.

This is ancient tradition. See the ancient apostolic canons of the Council of Jerusalem No. 26, (aganosts are lectors and psalts are cantors):

“26 As to bachelors who have entered the clergy, we allow only anagnosts and psalts to marry. if they wish to do so.”
apostolicconfraternityseminary.com/Lecture_on_Course_CL_600_Ancient_Canon_Law.html

Eastern Catholic Canon Laws CCEO Canon 795

1. The local hierarch can dispense the Christian faithful subject to him wherever they are as well as other Christian faithful enrolled in another Church sui iuris actually present within the territorial boundaries of his eparchy from impediments of ecclesiastical law except those which follow:
   **(1) holy orders; **
   (2) public perpetual vows of chastity in a religious institute, unless it is a case of congregations of eparchial right;
   (3) conjugicide.
   2. Dispensation from these impediments is reserved to the Apostolic See; however, the patriarch can dispense from the impediment of conjugicide as well as of the one of public perpetual vow of chastity made in congregations of any juridical condition.
2. A dispensation is never given from the impediment of consanguinity in the direct line or in the second degree of the collateral line.