P
PDXSeeker_1975
Guest
I would like to have one of them come to my door. I can tell them I used to be JW
(albeit only until my preteen years when I think we were kicked out)
- Status
(albeit only until my preteen years when I think we were kicked out)
A
ajcstr
Guest
ChosenOne7
One more thing - I realize that what you believe is the most important thing in your life as it is with me. I really am not trying in any way to disparage you. We have a disagreement on what the truth is to be sure. But I am attempting to show you that you have misconceptions about the Catholic faith that are actually put out by your organization - I have read them.
One more thing - I realize that what you believe is the most important thing in your life as it is with me. I really am not trying in any way to disparage you. We have a disagreement on what the truth is to be sure. But I am attempting to show you that you have misconceptions about the Catholic faith that are actually put out by your organization - I have read them.
P
pduffey
Guest
I spoke with a JW today. I’m out of practice refuting what they say. When I said that the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus Christ established when he was on earth, she said that, no, Constantine was the one that established it…
P
pduffey
Guest
I just saw a video of Jimmy Aiken’s. I was looking for more ammunition. I saw one question in this forum - or statement, rather - saying that trying to talk to a Jehovah’s Witness is like walking in quicksand. I’ve gone through this before. I only need to refresh my memory. Thank you whoever can help out.
W
Waynec
Guest
Read this article and the next time some one says this to you you will have an answer for them. Constantine gave the Catholics the freedom to practice their religion. The Watchtower tells lies about Catholicism all the time. It is what they do.
thecatholictreasurechest.com/roman.htm
God Bless
The JW’s do have some strange beliefs.
A
ajcstr
Guest
They believe that Christianity went into apostasy immediately after the death of the apostles. The problems with this and with the Constantine argument is that the NT was not set until after these events. So logically that would mean that the NT came out of apostasy so how could it be trusted?
They are tough though, they are not there to debate, they are there to tell you what the truth is. If you manage to corner them they will just change the subject. I always talk to them when they show up, but I have never made any headway. You also have to remember that they are trained in what they do which puts them at an advantage. They know the words of the Bible very well even if they have a flawed interpretation of them.
Check out some of the videos by Brian Garcia (EX JW) on youtube or his bookI just saw a video of Jimmy Aiken’s. I was looking for more ammunition. I saw one question in this forum - or statement, rather - saying that trying to talk to a Jehovah’s Witness is like walking in quicksand. I’ve gone through this before. I only need to refresh my memory. Thank you whoever can help out.
amazon.com/Witness-Understand-Free-Jehovahs-Witnesses-ebook/dp/B00FGUOGSG
C
CeelosDeznos
Guest
This is a very dishonest reply the way it reads. Perhaps you have written it incorrectly.
The Watchtower and Awake! magazines, while not “the ongoing voice of God in their religion” per se, these journals are used to preach religion and beliefs. The religion is that of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the beliefs the teachings of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Both publications are considered authoritative, and Watchtower articles are even studied over and referenced to as part of the worldwide Bible education work engaged in by Jehovah’s Witnesses. While they do discuss the Bible, the exegesis is limited to doctrinal instruction provided by the Governing Body and they do not believe that other points from other sources are as authoritative or correct as these. They are not merely tools but are believed by Witnesses as beacons champion what they believe to be the one and only true religion.
This is a very odd statement. Any Jehovah’s Witness who does not know that Catholics employ a Bible with a fuller canon of books is either a very bad student of their own religion (because the Witnesses regularly prepare their people for what to expect when preaching to Catholics, including the fact that we use 73 books to their 66) or you might have forgotten your training. This question would never be asked of a true Witness of Jehovah who was well-equipped to preach the good news of God’s Kingdom.
Jehovah’s Witness ALWAYS preach about beliefs. What about the publications that Witness distribute to others in the Kingdom preaching work? Is it not meant to stimulate others about what they believe?
Take for instance the publication “Would You Like to Know the Truth?” It asks sincere people if they are willing to consider their beliefs.
“What Does the Bible Teach?” and “Good News from God” are two other sterling examples. They are about what Jehovah’s Witnesses consider necessary things to believe if one is to find everlasting life in the God’s Kingdom. All Witness do is preach about beliefs! Why would you say this?
Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the Governing Body understands the Bible, and they follow what the Governing Body states and teaches. Individual Witnesses may never, under any circumstances, take upon themselves to follow anything written in Scripture unless and until it is interpreted to them by the Governing Body as to how to do so.
Just one example, for over 100 years the Witnesses believed that the Bible teaching: “You received free, give free,” as stated by Jesus at Matthew 10.8 meant that when Christians asked for funds to support their work it was wrong. Following the Bible meant that Jehovah’s Witnesses would never solicit money. JWs, claiming they were following the Bible, regularly condemned other religions that did this.
This all changed in May 2015 when Governing Body member Br. Lett spent about an hour soliciting for funds for their work. Though he claimed it was not soliciting, the definition of solicit is to “ask, request.” So now JWs who feel that it is not right to disobey the instruction of Matthew 10.8 must abandon the Bible and the Bible-based teaching that Witnesses have held for 100 years and follow the Governing Body’s instruction.
“You received free, give free,” says the Bible. It does not take up an hour on a Roku show to ask people to give more money then they already freely give, does it? You don’t need to ask for “free.” You don’t need to tell people to honor Jehovah with “free.” You don’t need to reach for your credit or debit card to give “free.” You don’t need to dig deeper in your pocket to give “free.” And you can’t point at others who do different if you claim you follow the Bible. Are Witnesses suddenly following the Bible to solicit for funds for the Kingdom work when up till now it was taught that doing so was violating Bible principles?
P
pduffey
Guest
Thank you Waynec and ajcstr! Those answers and links were perfect!
W
Waynec
Guest
You are very welcome. Good Luck and God BlessThank you Waynec and ajcstr! Those answers and links were perfect!
F
Fawkes
Guest
I love talking about religion, and always invite the JW and LDS missionaries to come in and talk. It’s usually pretty hot and humid here, so I offer them a cold bottle of water and a chance to cool off. I won’t take their literature since they won’t take mine, but I’m always up for sharing the faith.
Some things that I’ve observed:
Always begin with prayer. You lead the prayer, both at the beginning and end.
Every “door knocker” that I’ve encountered has a love of their faith, and they are sharing it with the world. Like most protestants, generally they are sincerely concerned about your salvation. Frankly, I think we Catholics can learn from them. Unless you are willing to build a genuine friendship based on truth and love, you’re wasting your time talking with them.
Both the JWs and missionaries work in pairs. You’re already at a disadvantage. However, one is more “senior” than the other, and they tend to lead the discussion on their end. Focus your attention on that person rather than being divided and conquered.
Jehovah Witnesses are very entrenched and indoctrinated. Because of this, they are very difficult to sway. Learn about the fallacies in their history and teaching, and use that information to refute them. This is true of the LDS church as well. This has to be done gently, and not overtly.
LDS missionaries, while very young, are very well trained to counter most objections. They do not believe that the Bible is inerrant, and therefore it is very difficult to use scripture alone as a defense. Church doctrine and dogma is scriptural AND logical. Stick to your guns in hope that some of what you’re saying is sinking in.
Whether talking to a JW, LDS missionary, or your evangelical cousin, It’s good to know scripture, and Church history, such as the councils, church fathers, etc. They will make claims such as the apostasy of the Church, and the end of authority at the death of the last apostle. You need to know how to defend against that.
Remember, you cannot convert anybody; but we have to plant seeds that will hopefully one day blossom. It’s all in God’s time, and you can’t hurry this. If you try to beat them over the head with everything at once, they’re going to run away and never come back. You need to be tactful and graceful. I like to make another appointment, and as PT Barnum put it, “Always leave them wanting more”.
Some things that I’ve observed:
Always begin with prayer. You lead the prayer, both at the beginning and end.
Every “door knocker” that I’ve encountered has a love of their faith, and they are sharing it with the world. Like most protestants, generally they are sincerely concerned about your salvation. Frankly, I think we Catholics can learn from them. Unless you are willing to build a genuine friendship based on truth and love, you’re wasting your time talking with them.
Both the JWs and missionaries work in pairs. You’re already at a disadvantage. However, one is more “senior” than the other, and they tend to lead the discussion on their end. Focus your attention on that person rather than being divided and conquered.
Jehovah Witnesses are very entrenched and indoctrinated. Because of this, they are very difficult to sway. Learn about the fallacies in their history and teaching, and use that information to refute them. This is true of the LDS church as well. This has to be done gently, and not overtly.
LDS missionaries, while very young, are very well trained to counter most objections. They do not believe that the Bible is inerrant, and therefore it is very difficult to use scripture alone as a defense. Church doctrine and dogma is scriptural AND logical. Stick to your guns in hope that some of what you’re saying is sinking in.
Whether talking to a JW, LDS missionary, or your evangelical cousin, It’s good to know scripture, and Church history, such as the councils, church fathers, etc. They will make claims such as the apostasy of the Church, and the end of authority at the death of the last apostle. You need to know how to defend against that.
Remember, you cannot convert anybody; but we have to plant seeds that will hopefully one day blossom. It’s all in God’s time, and you can’t hurry this. If you try to beat them over the head with everything at once, they’re going to run away and never come back. You need to be tactful and graceful. I like to make another appointment, and as PT Barnum put it, “Always leave them wanting more”.
F
Faith1960
Guest
You’re never going to get anywhere with him
A
adf417
Guest
I’m thinking some, if not all, of the JWs who have left the organization would disagree with you on this statement.
Peace!!!
D
D0UBTFIRE
Guest
Hi.
I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness. I’m 99% certain that you are not going to convince them of anything by showing them bible verses. They know their bible pretty darn well, and their organization uses brain washing techniques so that they aren’t really allowed to listen to you…they might hear you but they probably won’t actually engage the ideas that you’re trying to show them. The only way I recommend to deconvert a JW is to show them why their organization is false (that it’s not Gods visible organization) by showing them errors that the Watchtower Society has made. However that is very very tricky because the Watchtower society hides those facts well, and teaches their people to ignore those kind of accusations and prohibits them from reading material that points them out…but if you can find just one fact and tell them where within their own books they can see that it was a changed teaching and if they have a desire to check it out out of a desire to disprove it to you then they might be on their way to coming to their senses. However deconverting from the JWs is a traumatic experience and they would be shunned by all their friends and family, like literally excommunicated and they wouldn’t be allowed to speak to their loved ones - I’m not exaggerating. So tread carefully. You might it want to turn somebody’s world upside down like that!!! I don’t advise it. Just let them be.
But if you must know, look up about the flip flopping on Sodommah and Gomara and look at the dating of when Nebuchadnezzar put siege on Jerusalem.
I used to be a Jehovah’s Witness. I’m 99% certain that you are not going to convince them of anything by showing them bible verses. They know their bible pretty darn well, and their organization uses brain washing techniques so that they aren’t really allowed to listen to you…they might hear you but they probably won’t actually engage the ideas that you’re trying to show them. The only way I recommend to deconvert a JW is to show them why their organization is false (that it’s not Gods visible organization) by showing them errors that the Watchtower Society has made. However that is very very tricky because the Watchtower society hides those facts well, and teaches their people to ignore those kind of accusations and prohibits them from reading material that points them out…but if you can find just one fact and tell them where within their own books they can see that it was a changed teaching and if they have a desire to check it out out of a desire to disprove it to you then they might be on their way to coming to their senses. However deconverting from the JWs is a traumatic experience and they would be shunned by all their friends and family, like literally excommunicated and they wouldn’t be allowed to speak to their loved ones - I’m not exaggerating. So tread carefully. You might it want to turn somebody’s world upside down like that!!! I don’t advise it. Just let them be.
But if you must know, look up about the flip flopping on Sodommah and Gomara and look at the dating of when Nebuchadnezzar put siege on Jerusalem.
A
adf417
Guest
Can you elaborate on this?
M
Micosil
Guest
From jwfacts.com/watchtower/resurrection.php
And from jwfacts.com/watchtower/607-587.php
This is also relevant
D
D0UBTFIRE
Guest
Well I can’t look it up for you right now but if you search the internet you’ll find that the watchtower society (WTS) flip flopped on its teaching about whether or not the people that were destroyed in Sodommah and Gomara would be resurrected after Armageddon (I’m not sure I’m spelling that correctly but it’s a bible story of corrupt people being destroyed by God by something like fire raining down on them-dunno, can’t remember) To confirm this flip flop the person needs to look at older outdated watchtower society books that MAY be available in the library at their Kingdom Hall. You would have to look it up online and tell them what title and page number to look for.
The other thing was about the date Nebuchadnezzar put seize on Jerusalem. I forgot the dates, but you can find this online… Basically the date that historians use is different than the dates the WTS uses, in other words the WTS is wrong about that date and that’s a problem because they use that date in an important prophecy that has to do with the founding of their organization. Something about Daniel and the tree… And some 2,520 years… Here, here’s some info on that carm.org/1914-ad-607-bc-586-bc-and-jehovahs-witnesses
C
Cincinnatus1788
Guest
Dear Chosen One 7,
An earlier blogger answered the argumentative ‘scriptural non-problems’ posted above, so I have a slightly different take. Why did Jesus reference the Greek Septuagint version (‘Catholic’ version) of the Old Testament approx 120 times which included the deuterocanonical texts (texts that Protestants/JW refer to as Apocrypha)? Note: by comparison, Jesus referenced the OT version ‘favored’ by Luther (eventually adopted by Protestants and morphed into the JW NWT) approximately 20 times.
C-1788
P
Pepband_Mom
Guest
The Bible, Sacred Tradition & Magisterium are a reflection the Trinity. The Bible is NOT self authenticating. It has a caretaker completely capable of preserving & explaining it = RCC
M
minkymurph
Guest
Hi ChosenOne:wave:
I have some questions for you.
First, why is the studying the Bible so important to you? The reason I ask is because it is highly unlikely the early Christians ‘studied’ the Bible. After Christ’s death the NT had not been written. It is also highly unlikely Christian household’s had a huge parchment in their house containing the entire OT and they regularly 'studied ’ it. In fact, is it not the case many early Christians could not read and write? Thus, you can receive the message of the Gospel and be Christian in spite of never having read a word of Scripture.
I have studied Scripture. I have a Foundation Certificate in Theology and I studied Biblical exegesis for 4 years at university. I am not suggesting for one moment people should not read and reflect on Scripture, but not everyone has the capacity for such study and if you had never read a Bible, I would say you could equally still call yourself Christian. Jesus asked his followers to celebrate Baptism, Holy Communion and Confirmation. This cannot be denied. It is true we have different takes on the meaning and form of these Sacraments, but it cannot be denied Jesus said we should be Baptized from water and Spirit, and partake of bread and wine and every Christian faith practices them in some form.
The other question I would ask you is why preaching is so important to you? The message of the Gospel was Jesus died for our sins, rose from the dead and will come again? Was this not the Good News? This has been preached throughout the world. In preaching it again we are not telling people something they are not aware of. They know. It now lies with them what they will do with that Good News. Thus, I would say the focus of spreading the Gospel now lies in living it in terms of helping the sick, the poor, raising our children in the faith, and living out the Beatitudes in our daily lives. These things Jesus did and an equally effective way to preach if not more so.
To continue:
Who in your view decided what books should be encompassed in Scripture? How do you think it came to be compiled in the way it is?
You say it doesn’t matter which Bible you use, but is it not the case the translation you use does not contain the Apocrypha? They are in the Catholic Bible so I would guess if you used a Catholic Bible you would avoid these books?
Why does your organization think none of the Apocrypha were inspired, and why do they think none of the Gospels deemed to be Gnostic in origin were inspired?
S
sherimarie
Guest
Hi, sorry if this is off topic or if I just missed it.
Do JWs refer to Jesus as YEshua? If so, then why?
Thanks!
Do JWs refer to Jesus as YEshua? If so, then why?
Thanks!
- Status