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ShanPO
Guest
It doesn’t matter to me who Russell studied the Bible with.
And yeah, you will learn the Bible if you study it, but if you study it improperly, are you really studying it or just someone’s varied opinion of it?
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And yeah, you will learn the Bible if you study it, but if you study it improperly, are you really studying it or just someone’s varied opinion of it?
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Church_Militant
Guest
Which is precisely what the JWs do. It’s not a matter of what the Bible says but of what the Watchtower B&T Society tells them it says.
I have read many of their works and tracts and most of it is the most twisted misinterpretations of scripture that I have ever seen anywhere.
Moreover, when they have approached me at my door and I have agreed to take their materials in exchange for a tract of my own, they refuse, so it is obvious that they are trained to do so and their pastors (or whatever) are afraid they might encounter materials that show the holes in their teachings. I have no such direction from any Catholic authority and it is in fact that freedom to examine such things that has made my own faith all the stronger.
There’s a lot of mistakes in JW teachings.
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ChosenOne7
Guest
Even though I gave you biblical example you still question… Do me a favor… Read those verses I gave you an then tell me what was the difference between then an now…
What you saying about 1914 isn’t true… Again… Should I go into the history of that too now?
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Church_Militant
Guest
Here’s something that CO7 will not be willing to read.
God in Three Persons
God in Three Persons
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ajcstr
Guest
So when did the apostasy happen, who started it? I would like to read about it or at least read writings of a faithful disciple in the first century.
Saying the NWT of the Bible has one or 2 verses different is like saying Brigham Young had one or two wives! I have a copy of the last interlinear that was published by the WBTS and the translations of the Greek that are rendered don’t even match the wording in the next column. One simple example is translating the same Greek word as “worship” if referencing God the Father but as “obeisance” when referencing Jesus.
If you refer to “Jehovah” not being in bibles, this is from Judaism 101 on jewfaq.org/name.htm :
“The word “Jehovah” comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name “Adonai” (the usual substitute for YHVH) under the consonants of YHVH to remind people not to pronounce YHVH as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH (“J” is pronounced “Y” in German), and the name stuck.”
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Church_Militant
Guest
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ajcstr
Guest
Not sure what your point is about Isaiah? Mine was that the eunuch needed Philip to help him interpret it.
Jesus sent the Apostles, they in turn appointed others and sent them passing on the deposit of faith. That’s why I can read writings of early Christians line Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, and Polycarp and find that they believed the same things I do today.
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ShanPO
Guest
So Russell didn’t say the world was going to end in 1914?
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ajcstr
Guest
I think 1914 was revised to be the date of “Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power”
The parousia was reinterpreted as Jesus’ “presence” rather than physical return.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don’t believe that ChosenOne7 has access to Watchtower literature that goes that far back.
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Church_Militant
Guest
And not the only time this was done. "judge “Rutherford Hayes also did something similar later on. Which, if true, has the following scriptural insights and mandate.
***Jeremiah 28:[9] As for the prophet who prophesies peace, when the word of that prophet comes to pass, then it will be known that the LORD has truly sent the prophet.”
Ezekiel 33:[33] When this comes – and come it will! – then they will know that a prophet has been among them."
1st Samuel 3:[19] And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him and let none of his words fall to the ground. [20] And all Israel from Dan to Beer-sheba knew that Samuel was established as a prophet of the LORD.
Deuteronomy 18:[21] And if you say in your heart, `How may we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?’ – [22] when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you need not be afraid of him. ***
Now…will you follow the word of God or will you follow men who have been shown to be false prophets?
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ShanPO
Guest
ChosenOne has access to the internet, therefore, he has access to the same literature that we do. Bottom line is, Russell said something was going to happen, preached it as absolute truth, and when it didn’t turn out the way it was supposed to, he conveniently changed that truth to something else.
This is the crux of my argument against the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and something I will go to my grave with. Truth never changes. There are no “versions” of the truth. Anything other than the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth are called lies.
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ajcstr
Guest
But you have to realize they will say anything on the internet is a lie and they most likely won’t have the information in the kingdom hall to look it up. The watchtower magazines after 1914 did a sidestep and said Russell was misinterpreted.
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ShanPO
Guest
I guess that’s true, which brings us to another issue. How can you tell if your information is legit if it only comes from one source? As Church Militant said, one of the great blessings of Catholicism is the fact that we can go look to other faiths and see what they have to offer. If you can’t compare your beliefs with anything else, and the only info you get on those faiths (and your own) is from one very controlled source, it makes sense that you have to believe what they say.
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adf417
Guest
Greetings ChosenOne7, I may be getting a little confused…
Peace!!!
How does this address your statement - “my philosophy is if you can prove to me what you believe is in the Bible I’ll believe” in your previous post?
I agree with the history lesson but how does this address my question - "how a philosophy like this [your philosophy of “if you can prove to me what you believe is in the Bible I’ll believe”] just all of a sudden comes into existence since there were no bibles during the 1st few centuries.
Peace!!!
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ajcstr
Guest
Did you know that the Bible has always contained the books you call apocryphal? Since the books of the Bible were set in 360 - 380 AD until after the Reformation. The Latin Vulgate Bible (which was THE Bible) contained 73 books. The truth is 7 books were actually removed from the Bible, that’s why you don’t have them today. The original King James version of 1611 included them also.
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ajcstr
Guest
You of course fail to mention what is written in some of those Watchtowers as it relates to the other churches (Christendom I believe you refer to it as) and the Catholic Church in particular.
I just had 2 JW visit on Sunday by and we spoke about the Bible and John 6 in particular. They asked if they could come back and I said they were welcome any time. Then he said to me that they were just interested in making sure people read their Bibles, no matter which version, no matter what Church they belong to. This is obviously not their true agenda so why say it?
And PS - Ever read what evangelical christian writers have to say about Catholics ?
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Waynec
Guest
Why would taking something from the Watchtower publications from 100 years ago be discrediting to the Witnesses? Is not what was true than true now? Has the religion “evolved” to such an extant that things believed 100 years ago are not relevant now?
Not so with the Catholic writings. Writings from the early church fathers are just as relevant today as they were then.
As mentioned before why does the Watchtower in some of their publications mention Roman Catholicism by name in not containing truth when if not for the Catholics you would not have a bible that the Witnesses translated to suite their beliefs? If Witnesses have the complete truth why not teach it? Why is it necessary to disparage Roman Catholic Christianity?
Consider the Watchtower publication Should you Believe in the Trinity. They do their best to disparage the Christian belief in the Trinity by editing the Fathers writings to mean something completely different than what they did say. In doing so the governing body had to read the Fathers so they know the truth which they seem to hide from their congregants beautifully. Thank God for the person or persons who took the time to go through this magazine and quote the fathers accurately.
Thanks for sticking around.
God Bless
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CeelosDeznos
Guest
So, correct me if I am wrong…
The story of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the one and only true religion, is surely unique. Always in Need of Correction, But Hey, That’s What God Was Going For…
Jesus Returns in 1874 (But God Will Change That Later)
It was in July of 1879 that Jehovah God Almighty enlightened the humble American haberdashery owner, Charles Taze Russell, to publish the journal from which truth from God would flow until the end of the world.
That journal was The Watchtower, and God had chosen Mr. Russell to teach the truths in the Bible through this periodical to warn them of an important event—the End of the World—which God had Russell publish in the pages of *The Watchtower *as due by the year 1914.
You see God wanted people to believe that Charles Taze Russell was on to the truth and that unless people listened to this truth from Russell that they would be wiped away at Armageddon (which again God moved Russell to publish in* The Watchtower *as coming in 1814).
Mr. Russell was enlightened by God to teach others that Jesus’ promised return, the Second Coming, had actually occurred several years previously in 1874.
Now if you didn’t see anything happen that was particularly noticeable that year it because Jesus’ Return was invisible. Russell explained in The Watchtower, God’s printed publication for channeling truth to the world, that God allowed people to believe for almost 2000 years that Jesus’ Second Coming was going to be something people could see, but God enlightened Russell with the truth: the Return of Christ was an invisible event and it occurred in 1874.
You see Russell had done a thorough investigation of the Bible, and his study showed him that the Bible provided a hidden series of calculations, calculations that showed that mankind would be allowed only 6000 years to go astray until Jesus’ Return (invisibly) in 1874.
After that God also had hidden in Scripture formulas that He would be merciful for only 40 years in order to gather the rest of 144,000 Christians (chosen since the first century but now including only a few thousand by the 1870s) and prepare them to enter the Kingdom in 1914 when Armageddon would break out.
So said Russell who published it in that journal of truth that was produced by means of Jehovah God’s direction, The Watchtower.
Of course when 1914 came Russell and his fellow believers thought that the Great War (which would later be remembered as World War I) was proof positive that their calculations were right.
But on Halloween night (of all nights), Russell died two years later in 1916 without seeing any of his calculations God’s Spirit had enlightened him to preach about be fulfilled.
Jehovah Moved His True Religion to Preach Things That Needed Correction
It was obviously the way Jehovah God wanted it to be, for you see, Russell was incorrect and what he wrote in The Watchtower—God’s printed channel for publishing the Truth (and the only periodical of its kind) and the organization God thereby enlightened by means of it (even though it’s author was wrong—even though he was chosen not to be but to empowered by the Holy Spirit to write the truth from the Bible) had within it another man whom God would use to bring precious truths to the world: Judge Rutherford.
Under Rutherford it would occur that Jehovah would call the people who had followed Russell (and his mistaken teachings) to be called by his name “Jehovah’s Witnesses.” And even though Rutherford had no explanation for what 1914 meant, he was moved by God to offer a new date to the Jehovah’s Witnesses (now the only true religion on earth): that date was 1924.
In 1924 the earthly resurrection was to occur and “millions now living will never die!”
Since by the end of the 1920s their numbers were no about 90,000 and they believed they were the “remnant” of 144,000 who would live in heaven with God (and only 144,000 Christians are going to heaven, mind you), Jehovah’s Spirit had Rutherford teach that the calling of anymore people to heaven ended in the 1930s and now only people who would live on earth would be gathered.
(Oh yeah, nothing happened in 1924. But obviously God’s Spirit wanted this to happen because it did, and this is of course the only true religion.)
Rutherford died and was replaced by others, men whom Jehovah would have adjust the mess of calculations made by Russell and Rutherford.
(To be continued…)
The story of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the one and only true religion, is surely unique. Always in Need of Correction, But Hey, That’s What God Was Going For…
Jesus Returns in 1874 (But God Will Change That Later)
It was in July of 1879 that Jehovah God Almighty enlightened the humble American haberdashery owner, Charles Taze Russell, to publish the journal from which truth from God would flow until the end of the world.
That journal was The Watchtower, and God had chosen Mr. Russell to teach the truths in the Bible through this periodical to warn them of an important event—the End of the World—which God had Russell publish in the pages of *The Watchtower *as due by the year 1914.
You see God wanted people to believe that Charles Taze Russell was on to the truth and that unless people listened to this truth from Russell that they would be wiped away at Armageddon (which again God moved Russell to publish in* The Watchtower *as coming in 1814).
Mr. Russell was enlightened by God to teach others that Jesus’ promised return, the Second Coming, had actually occurred several years previously in 1874.
Now if you didn’t see anything happen that was particularly noticeable that year it because Jesus’ Return was invisible. Russell explained in The Watchtower, God’s printed publication for channeling truth to the world, that God allowed people to believe for almost 2000 years that Jesus’ Second Coming was going to be something people could see, but God enlightened Russell with the truth: the Return of Christ was an invisible event and it occurred in 1874.
You see Russell had done a thorough investigation of the Bible, and his study showed him that the Bible provided a hidden series of calculations, calculations that showed that mankind would be allowed only 6000 years to go astray until Jesus’ Return (invisibly) in 1874.
After that God also had hidden in Scripture formulas that He would be merciful for only 40 years in order to gather the rest of 144,000 Christians (chosen since the first century but now including only a few thousand by the 1870s) and prepare them to enter the Kingdom in 1914 when Armageddon would break out.
So said Russell who published it in that journal of truth that was produced by means of Jehovah God’s direction, The Watchtower.
Of course when 1914 came Russell and his fellow believers thought that the Great War (which would later be remembered as World War I) was proof positive that their calculations were right.
But on Halloween night (of all nights), Russell died two years later in 1916 without seeing any of his calculations God’s Spirit had enlightened him to preach about be fulfilled.
Jehovah Moved His True Religion to Preach Things That Needed Correction
It was obviously the way Jehovah God wanted it to be, for you see, Russell was incorrect and what he wrote in The Watchtower—God’s printed channel for publishing the Truth (and the only periodical of its kind) and the organization God thereby enlightened by means of it (even though it’s author was wrong—even though he was chosen not to be but to empowered by the Holy Spirit to write the truth from the Bible) had within it another man whom God would use to bring precious truths to the world: Judge Rutherford.
Under Rutherford it would occur that Jehovah would call the people who had followed Russell (and his mistaken teachings) to be called by his name “Jehovah’s Witnesses.” And even though Rutherford had no explanation for what 1914 meant, he was moved by God to offer a new date to the Jehovah’s Witnesses (now the only true religion on earth): that date was 1924.
In 1924 the earthly resurrection was to occur and “millions now living will never die!”
Since by the end of the 1920s their numbers were no about 90,000 and they believed they were the “remnant” of 144,000 who would live in heaven with God (and only 144,000 Christians are going to heaven, mind you), Jehovah’s Spirit had Rutherford teach that the calling of anymore people to heaven ended in the 1930s and now only people who would live on earth would be gathered.
(Oh yeah, nothing happened in 1924. But obviously God’s Spirit wanted this to happen because it did, and this is of course the only true religion.)
Rutherford died and was replaced by others, men whom Jehovah would have adjust the mess of calculations made by Russell and Rutherford.
(To be continued…)
C
CeelosDeznos
Guest
Continued…
Someone had better not tell Joseph Smith about this, but I am sure he is busy being his own God over some other planet while Russell reigns from heaven as God’s channel of truth among the 144,000.
Jehovah Uses a Channel of Truth that Never Teaches Anything Accurately…Really?
You see, even though this was the one true religion and you could tell it was because it was the only one teaching the truth, they did teach false things like Jesus return occurring in 1874 or that Abraham, Isaac, and David would rise again in 1924 or that the world would end in 1914. Even though all this was written under the guidance of God’s Spirit, Jehovah’s one and only true organization now taught that the beginning of the “end of the world” only started in 1914, and that the 6000 years of human history was still to end in the future…another date known as 1975!
When 1975 came and went, they dropped the whole 6000 year thing that Russell taught ended in 1874 (under God’s direction, never forget). Obviously this was the kind of thing God was going for in leading humankind with the Truth.
The 1975 mistake was not blamed on Fredrick Franz, the Governing Body member who under the direction of God’s Holy Spirit introduced it in 1966 in a book the Governing Body published entitled “Freedom of the Sons of God”—no, the mistake was said to be that of those who believed and preached the 1975 date (and God still moves his faithful Witnesses to do so today, because that is how Truth works).
So the “end of the world” was then said to be slated for the “lifetime” of those old enough to remember the Great War of 1914. Before this generation passed away, Armageddon would come, or so Jehovah had his true religion believe, print, and preach.
Now Jehovah has moved his true religion of people to discard much of what they once practiced and believed and preached (even though everything they once practiced and believed and preached was given to them by God’s Sprit-directed true religion, the one and only).
Now Jehovah has enlightened his people with the real truth.
Now they know that everything they believed since the 1870s was wrong—even though it came by means of God directing them by the Sprit.
Now they know the end of the world is coming before two overlapping generations come to an end (because this is what God was going for since the beginning).
These “truths” will never change.
Because truth does not change.
This is what happens when Jehovah God uses his Spirit to develop a true religion on earth: it’s always correcting itself.
Expect no further updates people, because if there is even a chance of that then nothing that a JW preaches should believed for now because as their history shows it could be false information tomorrow.
That’s obviously the sign of the One and Only True God, right?
Someone had better not tell Joseph Smith about this, but I am sure he is busy being his own God over some other planet while Russell reigns from heaven as God’s channel of truth among the 144,000.
Jehovah Uses a Channel of Truth that Never Teaches Anything Accurately…Really?
You see, even though this was the one true religion and you could tell it was because it was the only one teaching the truth, they did teach false things like Jesus return occurring in 1874 or that Abraham, Isaac, and David would rise again in 1924 or that the world would end in 1914. Even though all this was written under the guidance of God’s Spirit, Jehovah’s one and only true organization now taught that the beginning of the “end of the world” only started in 1914, and that the 6000 years of human history was still to end in the future…another date known as 1975!
When 1975 came and went, they dropped the whole 6000 year thing that Russell taught ended in 1874 (under God’s direction, never forget). Obviously this was the kind of thing God was going for in leading humankind with the Truth.
The 1975 mistake was not blamed on Fredrick Franz, the Governing Body member who under the direction of God’s Holy Spirit introduced it in 1966 in a book the Governing Body published entitled “Freedom of the Sons of God”—no, the mistake was said to be that of those who believed and preached the 1975 date (and God still moves his faithful Witnesses to do so today, because that is how Truth works).
So the “end of the world” was then said to be slated for the “lifetime” of those old enough to remember the Great War of 1914. Before this generation passed away, Armageddon would come, or so Jehovah had his true religion believe, print, and preach.
Now Jehovah has moved his true religion of people to discard much of what they once practiced and believed and preached (even though everything they once practiced and believed and preached was given to them by God’s Sprit-directed true religion, the one and only).
Now Jehovah has enlightened his people with the real truth.
Now they know that everything they believed since the 1870s was wrong—even though it came by means of God directing them by the Sprit.
Now they know the end of the world is coming before two overlapping generations come to an end (because this is what God was going for since the beginning).
These “truths” will never change.
Because truth does not change.
This is what happens when Jehovah God uses his Spirit to develop a true religion on earth: it’s always correcting itself.
Expect no further updates people, because if there is even a chance of that then nothing that a JW preaches should believed for now because as their history shows it could be false information tomorrow.
That’s obviously the sign of the One and Only True God, right?
C
ChosenOne7
Guest
All you need to do is study the Bible… Like you believe what the Pope is saying is correct so you should read the Bible and see if it is so… Yes you can look up things on the Internet about any religion and find out all the bad things about it, where we differ is that we will use the Bible the teachings that we have been taught makes sense it’s not something that can’t be explained or that makes us confused, hence I advise or encourage all of you to make a study of the Bible… We believe it’s inspired by God you don’t you believe more in the apocryphal if that’s the case atleast check if the apocryphal is in line with what the Bible says if it’s not which would u believe more the Bible or the apocryphal… We have many Catholics who have studied the Bible and that can now tell us the difference between Catholics beliefs an what the Bible says… I’m not here to mock your religion or beliefs… I have read some verses in the apocryphal which confuses me because it says something different to what the Bible says… So Im not sure if you have read the Bible in accordance with the apocryphal an if you did how did you miss all of the difference… All I know of is that 5 years ago there was about 7million Jehovah’s Witnesses today we over 8.2 million… That’s people coming from all kinds of religions… I ask myself how is it that more an more people can accept this teachings that everyone is so against… One question I ask them is how… They all say it’s only after they studied the Bible… Why
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