Did a pope make a deal with Hitler?

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Mikaele

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I was listening to a Hitchen’s debate, and he mentioned something about a Pope cutting a deal with Hitler. Does anyone know anything about this?
 
Mikaele said:
I was listening to a Hitchen’s debate, and he mentioned something about a Pope cutting a deal with Hitler. Does anyone know anything about this?
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Pope Pius XII was a strong opponent of Hitler. Read The Myth of Hitler’s Pope
 
There was a concordat with Germany, which is no different than the myriad of official relationships that everyone had with Germany or that the Holy See has with various states today. The concordats effectively guarantee freedom for the Church to operate and they’re only controversial when people want to make them into something sinister.
 
Mikaele said:
I was listening to a Hitchen’s debate, and he mentioned something about a Pope cutting a deal with Hitler. Does anyone know anything about this?
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Hitchens is probably referring to the diplomatic agreement that defined the international boundaries of the Vatican as a separate country. Or maybe something having to do with Church rights under the Nazi regime. Why did you blatantly refuse to give us any reference or direct quotation in context?
 
Jesus,our Lords peace be whit You.
Don’t beleive all You read! Absolutely no. Why on earth would any Pope have doen a deal whit Hitler? What could have been the reason to do that?
The world is full on teories about conspiracy and other “secret” things. People make up them when they can’t understand something,or want to believe something so badly that they don’t see the truth. We humans has one big thing wich has gone a bit wrong. We need to be right and can’t stand the fact that we realy can sometimes be wrong. (I once thought I wos wrong,but it wos a mistake. And did not “invented” that line,) That is why we argue,fight,make bad things. I am wrong about ten times a day,and it does not feel so bad. I have no need beeing rigth. As my son says,“keep it simple” and that is what I try to do. I don’t search for things that don’t exsist,I know there is nothing “hidden” in the Bible,all there is the pure,and yes,simple truth that not need beeing tryed by people moore cleaver then me. If we only could be humble enough to once and for all know and understand that we not only can,but often are,wrong,and live whit it. And one thing moore,we should not trye to make us looking moore clever then we are,what I mean is that we would be humble enough to keep our mouth shut when we don’t know what on earth others talks about. I wish,and I hope,and very likely soon pray,that we could understand that most of the things we know,we don’t need to understand. I know how a airplane stays up in the air,but I don’t understand why. I know how a engine works but I don’t understand how. I think I know how a computer works,but I absolutely not understand. Theese wos only three things,the world is full of them. Be wrong,and be humble,learn to be wrong,and you will be blessed whit knowledge far beyond you can imagine. Believe me when I say,be wrong,and be proud,and that proudness is not a mortal sin but a great blessing.
 
I have listened to many debates between Christopher Hitchens and Christian aplogists, and I have come to the conclusion that anything that Hitchens says is a mis(name removed by moderator)terpretation of the facts, whether deliberately or honestly is hard to say. The pope in question is Pius XII. I did some searching and found this article. In it is a quote from the New York Times editorial on December 25, 1941 (Late Day edition, p. 24):
The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas… he is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all… the Pope put himself squarely against Hitlerism… he left no doubt that the Nazi aims are also irreconcilable with his own conception of a Christian peace.
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No Pope ever made a deal with Hitler. What happened is that, when Hitler came to power, the Vatican signed in the year 1929 something called the Lateran treaty which made the Vatican into a state and restored some temporal power to the Pope. There was also the Reichskonkordat (try saying that really, really fast!), signed in 1933 which gave the Catholic Church freedom in Germany.

Hitler started making alot of laws which made it very, very hard for Catholics in Germany to practise their faith so the Church had to act and hence, came this Concordat. Pity though that the unfair freemasonic Hitler broke his promises!

Long lIve the Catholic Church. Long Live the Blessed Virgin Mary!
 
Apollos said:
Hitchens is probably referring to the diplomatic agreement that defined the international boundaries of the Vatican as a separate country. Or maybe something having to do with Church rights under the Nazi regime. Why did you blatantly refuse to give us any reference or direct quotation in context?
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Don’t you know? The Pope was Hitler’s best friend, et cetera, blahdeyblah and so forth. :rolleyes:

This topic remerges like clockwork every couple of weeks.
 
philipmarie said:
No Pope ever made a deal with Hitler. What happened is that, when Hitler came to power, the Vatican signed in the year 1929 something called the Lateran treaty which made the Vatican into a state and restored some temporal power to the Pope. There was also the Reichskonkordat (try saying that really, really fast!), signed in 1933 which gave the Catholic Church freedom in Germany.

Hitler started making alot of laws which made it very, very hard for Catholics in Germany to practise their faith so the Church had to act and hence, came this Concordat. Pity though that the unfair freemasonic Hitler broke his promises!

Long lIve the Catholic Church. Long Live the Blessed Virgin Mary!
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Most folks don’t realize it, but approximately 10% of the people who were killed in the Nazi concentration camps were Catholics, mostly religious (priests, nuns, etc.). In fact, Auswitz was first occupied only by Catholics. The Jews came later.
 
Mikaele said:
I was listening to a Hitchen’s debate, and he mentioned something about a Pope cutting a deal with Hitler. Does anyone know anything about this?
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Did you catch the subtle inference in Hitchens’ using the phrase “cutting a deal” in lieu of “reaching an agreement”?

In any event, the Vatican signed an agreement with the Nazi regime to ensure the rights of the Church in Germany. If you want to do some in-depth reading, there are a number of papers here catholicleague.org/pius.php .
 
Sending prayers for Hitchens as he suffers through the battle of throat cancer. May he find peace with God.
 
Scoobyshme said:
Most folks don’t realize it, but approximately 10% of the people who were killed in the Nazi concentration camps were Catholics, mostly religious (priests, nuns, etc.). In fact, Auswitz was first occupied only by Catholics. The Jews came later.
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probably more. 3 million Catholic Poles alone were murdered
 
Mikaele said:
I was listening to a Hitchen’s debate, and he mentioned something about a Pope cutting a deal with Hitler. Does anyone know anything about this?
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The pope was no fan of Hitler and any agreements were really about protecting the church rather than endorsing Nazi actions. Catholics died in large numbers at the hands of Nazis and also did a lot of good in trying to protect Jews for instance.

Having said all that I am often confused at the way in which Hitler is always held up as the ultimate example of evil. In practice good and evil is usually at work in any ruler. Afterall didn’t he oppose abortion , endorse marriage, oppose homosexual lifestyles, was far harder on many non Christian false religions than on Christians. Stalin was far worse and Christians generally had a far harder time under him or Mao and the communist regimes they spawned.

Today relativistic regimes like most of the major countries of Western Europe allow abortion, often actively promote homosexuality or false religion and yet are regarded as paragons of virtue.
 
Barbkw said:
Sending prayers for Hitchens as he suffers through the battle of throat cancer. May he find peace with God.
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Amen. Perhaps the OP should watch the excellent program about the Pope that’s now running on EWTN.
 
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