G
gnjsdad
Guest
Perhaps some folks need reminding…
- Status
T
Thekla
Guest
So the government of the United States wasn’t controlling the message? That was the purpose of the White House Iraq Group. It was formed a year before the invasion. I don’t mean to be sarcastic, but nobody seriously thinks that Karen Hughes, Mary Matalin, or Karl Rove were involved in military planning, do they?
It should be surprising that the open-ended Wirthlin poll which was done shortly after 9/11 had 3% of Americans saying Iraq was responsible yet 16 months later (January 03) Knight-Ridder had 44% of Americans saying that there were Iraqis who had hijacked the planes. But I’m not surprised that Mr. Cheny wasn’t surprised. Obviously Americans weren’t thinking about Desert Storm when they were polled in the Wirthlin Poll after 9/11 but they apparently had Iraq on the brain after the rollout of the “new product” in August of 2002.
“Shortly after September 11, respondents were asked the open-ended question: “Who do you think is more responsible [sic] for the recent terrorist attacks on the New York World Trade Center and the Pentagon?” Only 3% proposed Saddam Hussein or Iraq, while 57% named Osama bin Laden as the most likely suspect. All who answered were asked for a second choice; this time Iraq scored higher, but still only got 27% of responses (Wirthlin, September 15-17, 2001).”
R
rlg94086
Guest
Those numbers are very interesting, and I would agree that people may have been confused by the speeches in which the President and others said Iraq was part of the War on Terror brought on by 9/11.
Now, please show me where someone in the administration made a falacious link between 9/11 and Iraq. Prove to me that they intentionally deceived the American public.
M
mlchance
Guest
Wow! That proves everything! Combined with Thekla’s accusations based on nothing more than opinion polls, the evidence cannot be disputed!
Fortunately, here’s a picture of President Bush meeting with Sister Nirmala, which proves that the President is also a Missionary of Charity!
http://home.houston.rr.com/mchance3/rolleyes.gif
– Mark L. Chance.
T
thestickman
Guest
Oh wow, we’ve again been reminded this meeting took place during the Regan years.Of course, this meeting has ZERO to do with the topic of the thread. We are over 200 posts now and no one has yet to offer any evidence Bush lied.
M
MikeWM
Guest
And yet, a year later, with the march to war hotting up:
mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/bush/meet.htm
A slightly more involved answer than a categorical ‘no’, that one, isn’t it?
Mike
M
MikeWM
Guest
No it isn’t.
Mike
M
mlchance
Guest
Yes, it is. It is also an answer that repeatedly notes that Iraq was not directly linked to 9/11.
VICE PRES. CHENEY:
– Mark L. Chance.
M
MikeWM
Guest
We could both cherry-pick sentences from that mass of rhetoric that replaced ‘no’ for the rest of the day, if you want:
Still not quite the same message as ‘no’, is it?
Mike
M
mlchance
Guest
No one in the Bush Administration ever claimed Hussein’s regime had any direct link with or responsible for 9/11. The “smoking gun” interview you posted further demonstrates this fact.
So, now, pushing 210 posts, no one has managed to prove President Bush lied about Iraq. Perhaps it’s time for people to be reminded that the commandment against bearing false witness – which includes prohibitions against rash judgment, detraction, and calumny – applies to everyone.
– Mark L. Chance.
F
FightingFat
Guest
No it’s not. The Sun is like the National Enquierer, the Gaurdian most certainly is not.
M
MikeWM
Guest
I didn’t claim it was a smoking gun. It does show that something that was a simple ‘no’ became a complicated and obfuscated ‘no’ when a simple ‘no’ was a less useful answer. Noone has suggested why Cheney couldn’t have simply said ‘no’ again second time around, rather than saying all that he said there.
Remember - as the late Alan Clark said - being ‘economical with the actualitè’ is also a form of deception. The John Major government got into a lot of trouble over that, over allowing companies to supply parts that could be turned into weapons in…err…Iraq.
Mike
E
estesbob
Guest
Let us summarize where we are at after 211 posts:
No one has posted a single instance of where Bush lied.
The assertion that the Bush administration implied that Iraq was involved with 9-11 has been thoroughly debunked. In fact the opposite is true-Vice Presdient Cheney Categorically denied it on 9-16 -01 No one has quoted a single instance where anyone from Bush on down claimed this
The assertion that the Bush Administration carried out A delibrate misinformation campaign to lead the Amerian people to believe there was a connection has also been proved to be in false. In fact the belief that Iraq was involved in 9-11 has dropped 45 points since 9-11. One heck of a disinformation plan, wasnt it!http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
The repeated assertions that by Democrat party leadership that Bush et al misled a majority of people into beleiveing there was a connection by the time the Liberation started has also been proving to be false Carl Levin repated this lie last Sunday. ALL major polls show only a minority of Amercians believed this at the time the Liberation began.
In addition the thread has gotten humorous. We have went from Saddam had no WMDs to the WMDs he didnt have were given to him by Donald Rumslfeld. We have went from people believed that Iraq was involved with 9-11 to , at one time. people beleived Iraqis were pilots of the plane. A meaningless assertion but a good way to change the subject. In fact all the Pilots were from Saudi Arabia and no one has claimed this means Saudi Arabia was involved in 9-11. And suddenly the Guardian, the Michael Moore of British Journalism, has morped into a reputable newspaper. My Welsh wife rolls her eyes wheh she sees someone claim this.
No one has posted a single instance of where Bush lied.
The assertion that the Bush administration implied that Iraq was involved with 9-11 has been thoroughly debunked. In fact the opposite is true-Vice Presdient Cheney Categorically denied it on 9-16 -01 No one has quoted a single instance where anyone from Bush on down claimed this
The assertion that the Bush Administration carried out A delibrate misinformation campaign to lead the Amerian people to believe there was a connection has also been proved to be in false. In fact the belief that Iraq was involved in 9-11 has dropped 45 points since 9-11. One heck of a disinformation plan, wasnt it!http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
The repeated assertions that by Democrat party leadership that Bush et al misled a majority of people into beleiveing there was a connection by the time the Liberation started has also been proving to be false Carl Levin repated this lie last Sunday. ALL major polls show only a minority of Amercians believed this at the time the Liberation began.
In addition the thread has gotten humorous. We have went from Saddam had no WMDs to the WMDs he didnt have were given to him by Donald Rumslfeld. We have went from people believed that Iraq was involved with 9-11 to , at one time. people beleived Iraqis were pilots of the plane. A meaningless assertion but a good way to change the subject. In fact all the Pilots were from Saudi Arabia and no one has claimed this means Saudi Arabia was involved in 9-11. And suddenly the Guardian, the Michael Moore of British Journalism, has morped into a reputable newspaper. My Welsh wife rolls her eyes wheh she sees someone claim this.
M
MikeWM
Guest
You seem to be confusing ‘reputable’ with ‘having exactly the same opinion as myself.’
There are various sources all over the political spectrum that I find ‘reputable’ whether or not I agree with their viewpoints.
Mike
2
2shelbys
Guest
That about sums it up but do not expect the “always blame America” poeple to change their minds over a bunch of inconvenient facts. That is why I pretty much bowed out of this thread. When people simply refuse to face facts and keep posting the same long-discredited arguments over and over it just becomes futile to presue it any further.
M
mary_bobo
Guest
And don’t forget the VERY old saying “don’t bother me with facts, my mind’s made up!!!”
E
estesbob
Guest
This likewise was my last hurrah in this thread. The facts have been laid out again & again. No matter what you say they continue to post their opinions as fact.
W
walstan
Guest
thestickman said:
Of course, this meeting has ZERO to do with the topic of the thread. We are over 200 posts now and no one has yet to offer any evidence Bush lied.
What a penetrating comment, I think we all agree this is goiung to far into the past.
Recognise something? Try post #149.
Geese and Ganders seem to come to mind!!
T
thestickman
Guest
Only in the mind of those who’d rather Saddam were still in power, IMO.So let’s review: You complained earlier the gassing of the Kurds was too long ago to be evidence of Saddam’s WMD. After ignoring the reality of the Clinton administration’s 1998 policy of regime change in Iraq you then go back to an EARLIER era & post the picture of Saddam and Rumsfeld shaking hands with the suggestion it’s the Goose and the Gander"–the ol’ “it’s all America’s fault” tactic.
Are you trying to set a record for most fallacious arguments in a thread, perhaps?
So as it stands, we are 217 posts into this thread and no one has offered any proof Bush lied.
2
2shelbys
Guest
- Status