Did God cause this typhoon to strike the Philippines? (poll)

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Estevao

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Simple question, did God, in his infinite love, wisdom, power and benevolence cause that typhoon to smack a hugely Catholic country like the Philippines?

I heard that God’s church is the only true church, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Philippines is a huge bastion of Catholicism. Surely one would think that God in his infinite love, wisdom, power and benevolence would spare this country from this? Since the beginning of time, in God’s mind, in his infinitely wise and benevolent and loving mind, this typhoon was planned out: yes, no or other?

Usually the theist response to the problem of evil I’ve heard is that God could possibly have morally sufficient reasons for allowing evil. Now this seems good when we’re dealing with personal evil that people do to each other. But when it comes to typhoons like this one that smacked the Philippines, i.e. natural evil, one wonders what the morally sufficient reasons for permitting there could be, and whether they are even possible?

It’s this particular typhoon I’d like to address, as I don’t think it is possible that God has morally sufficient reasons for this typhoon.

It seems that God so ordered this typhoon that aid is not able to get to the affected areas, leaving people to die of exposure, dehydration or their injuries if they weren’t killed outright by this storm. One could imagine that a storm such as this might be considered to be morally okay if help could get to people quickly, allowing for a “greater good” to come out of this evil in the form of aid, and people helping one another. But God just seems to have ordered this typhoon to frustrate transportation of people and aid and allow his beloved children to languish without any outside help.

Thoughts?
 
No. Warmer ocean temperatures in the Pacific and its distance traveled (started in Micronesia, central Pacific) allowed it to gain massive strength.
 
Thanks for the meteorology lesson there, but God is all powerful and controls such things, does he not? Does he not have an infinite knowledge of everything that goes on in his creation? He even knows how many stands of hair I have on my head, does he not?

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 10:30 [/BIBLEDRB]:
 
Estevao said:
Thanks for the meteorology lesson there, but God is all powerful and controls such things, does he not? Does he not have an infinite knowledge of everything that goes on in his creation? He even knows how many stands of hair I have on my head, does he not?

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 10:30 [/BIBLEDRB]:
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As the First Cause and Creator, God certainly is omniscient and omnipotent.

However, I don’t think we can ascribe every calamity to direct Divine Intervention. God isn’t a micro-managing football coach, and His ways are not our ways.

Remember, in the Gospel of John, the apostles ask Jesus if a man born blind was being punished for his sins, or his father’s sins. Jesus replied by saying “Neither; it was to display the glory of God” - and healed him. That’s what we are called to do when faced with a disaster. Not ask “did God do this? Is this a punishment”, but try to help out. (The first is easier to do, but that doesn’t mean it’s right.)

To paraphrase Frances Hodgson Burnett, adversity tries people and finds out how good they are to those in need.

Besides, there’s this interesting passage from the Epistle to the Romans:

“For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”
(Romans, ch. 8, v.22)

I’m not entirely sure what it means, but I’m sure it has some relevance to this situation. Thoughts? 🙂
 
RPRPsych said:
As the First Cause and Creator, God certainly is omniscient and omnipotent.

However, I don’t think we can ascribe every calamity to direct Divine Intervention. God isn’t a micro-managing football coach, and His ways are not our ways.

Remember, in the Gospel of John, the apostles ask Jesus if a man born blind was being punished for his sins, or his father’s sins. Jesus replied by saying “Neither; it was to display the glory of God” - and healed him. That’s what we are called to do when faced with a disaster. Not ask “did God do this? Is this a punishment”, but try to help out. (The first is easier to do, but that doesn’t mean it’s right.)

To paraphrase Frances Hodgson Burnett, adversity tries people and finds out how good they are to those in need.

Besides, there’s this interesting passage from the Epistle to the Romans:

“For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”
(Romans, ch. 8, v.22)

I’m not entirely sure what it means, but I’m sure it has some relevance to this situation. Thoughts? 🙂
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Thanks for the response. I would mostly agree with what you said (I hope my OP doesn’t sound like I’m trolling here), and up until this story I was mostly convinced of theistic responses to the problem of evil, but one thing that bothers me is that this typhoon seems to have struck in such a away that helping other people and getting aid to the Philippines, as you mentioned, is frustrated, and not just in a way that is a result of shoddy infrastructure (human fault), but of where and when God decided to let this Typhoon wreak its havoc. As such, I have a tough time affirming that God could even possibly have a morally sufficient reason for allowing this storm, which I consider to be an evil.

Natural evil is really a sticky issue when it comes to the problem of evil, it does try my faith.
 
Estevao said:
Thanks for the response. I would mostly agree with what you said (I hope my OP doesn’t sound like I’m trolling here), and up until this story I was mostly convinced of theistic responses to the problem of evil, but one thing that bothers me is that this typhoon seems to have struck in such a away that helping other people and getting aid to the Philippines, as you mentioned, is frustrated, and not just in a way that is a result of shoddy infrastructure (human fault), but of where and when God decided to let this Typhoon wreak its havoc. As such, I have a tough time affirming that God could even possibly have a morally sufficient reason for allowing this storm, which I consider to be an evil.

Natural evil is really a sticky issue when it comes to the problem of evil, it does try my faith.
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A famous physicist, was once quoted as having said that, when he would face God, he would have two questions: why relativity, and why quantum mechanics? “I believe he would have an answer to the first”, he went on. 😃

Natural evil is a huge problem to all of us who believe - you’re not alone on that. The traditional Protestant “this is a fallen world and you all deserve it, nyuk, nyuk” stuff you get from Creationist websites can make it worse. And as the writings of John Bowlby demonstrate, even Lewis’ stark “Problem of Pain” is not a good solution, for it is rooted in his own childhood experiences and traumas. Ultimately, failing a logical explanation, I believe the best response is to see it as a challenge that we have to rise to. God never said it would be easy, though He did say he was always with us. 🙂
 
Estevao said:
Simple question, did God, in his infinite love, wisdom, power and benevolence cause that typhoon to smack a hugely Catholic country like the Philippines?

I heard that God’s church is the only true church, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Philippines is a huge bastion of Catholicism. Surely one would think that God in his infinite love, wisdom, power and benevolence would spare this country from this? Since the beginning of time, in God’s mind, in his infinitely wise and benevolent and loving mind, this typhoon was planned out: yes, no or other?

Usually the theist response to the problem of evil I’ve heard is that God could possibly have morally sufficient reasons for allowing evil. Now this seems good when we’re dealing with personal evil that people do to each other. But when it comes to typhoons like this one that smacked the Philippines, i.e. natural evil, one wonders what the morally sufficient reasons for permitting there could be, and whether they are even possible?

It’s this particular typhoon I’d like to address, as I don’t think it is possible that God has morally sufficient reasons for this typhoon.

It seems that God so ordered this typhoon that aid is not able to get to the affected areas, leaving people to die of exposure, dehydration or their injuries if they weren’t killed outright by this storm. One could imagine that a storm such as this might be considered to be morally okay if help could get to people quickly, allowing for a “greater good” to come out of this evil in the form of aid, and people helping one another. But God just seems to have ordered this typhoon to frustrate transportation of people and aid and allow his beloved children to languish without any outside help.

Thoughts?
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There is no indication throughout the history of Israel as it is seen in the Old Testament that God preserved it from harm simply by nature of it being Israel. As it sinned, so it suffered. With that, at least, we can safely eliminate the idea that God would preserve a predominately Catholic nation from calamity.

The existence of death and suffering has been incorporated into creation due to the foreknown existence of sin. That is why the universe is the way that it is. It is the reason why, if you accidentally drop a hammer, it falls onto your toe, instead of being miraculously suspended in the air by the power of God, so that not even the slightest pang of pain might afflict His beloved.

The imperfection of the world is in part observed with one person committing sin upon another person, but it also includes, as we see revealed by the prophets, natural forces such as plague, beast, storm, and famine. Not just in case of specific instances, but as natural occurrences in general. It is doubtful that God was demonstrating an explicit judgement on the Philippines in the way he destroyed Tyre or Sidon; the imperfect and sometimes deadly conditions of the universe that befall people serve as a universal reminder and testament of judgement. Consider Luke 13: 1-5:

NRSVCE
At that very time there were some present who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. He asked them, “Do you think that because these Galileans suffered in this way they were worse sinners than all other Galileans? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as they did. Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam fell on them—do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others living in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish just as they did.”
 
IMHO, the power of God is ultimately directly/indirectly in everything - God is all in all, without God nothing can exist, or indeed happen.

We can then ponder upon the messages literal and metaphorical/parable implicit in the Adam and Eve fall of man OT narrative, and the consequences heaped on them by sin and spiritual dysfunction. They no longer were deserving/fit for a perfect world, a ‘Garden of Eden’ - that there would be troubles and trials in their physical lives.

God created/made our earth and the natural laws it follows, but maybe if ‘we’ could have avoided falling into the ‘occasion of sin’ we would instead still have ‘our’ Garden of Eden?
 
Estevao said:
Simple question, did God, in his infinite love, wisdom, power and benevolence cause that typhoon to smack a hugely Catholic country like the Philippines?
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What difference does it make that it is a Catholic country? Has the Lord ever given Catholics special protection from the weather? I think not.

Anyway, this paragraph from the CCC might address your question:
314 We firmly believe that God is master of the world and of its history. But the ways of his providence are often unknown to us. Only at the end, when our partial knowledge ceases, when we see God “face to face,” will we fully know the ways by which—even through the dramas of evil and sin—God has guided his creation to that definitive sabbath rest for which he created heaven and earth.
 
Estevao said:
. As such, I have a tough time affirming that God could even possibly have a morally sufficient reason for allowing this storm, which I consider to be an evil.

Natural evil is really a sticky issue when it comes to the problem of evil, it does try my faith.
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weather follows the natural laws God created. Man chooses to live the way he does. We are fully capable of building safe homes and living in safe areas if we wanted to put safety first. We have the science and the tools to predict bad weather but we still prefer to put our money to other uses.

People insist on building on a flood plain, near a seismic fault, and even at the foot of an active volcano. So you are asking the wrong question. It’s not did God cause the typhoon, it’s why haven’t men been better prepared to survive a typhoon? God has given us talents, intelligence, and materials to build whatever we need.
 
Estevao said:
Simple question, did God, in his infinite love, wisdom, power and benevolence cause that typhoon to smack a hugely Catholic country like the Philippines?

I heard that God’s church is the only true church, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Philippines is a huge bastion of Catholicism. Surely one would think that God in his infinite love, wisdom, power and benevolence would spare this country from this? Since the beginning of time, in God’s mind, in his infinitely wise and benevolent and loving mind, this typhoon was planned out: yes, no or other?

Usually the theist response to the problem of evil I’ve heard is that God could possibly have morally sufficient reasons for allowing evil. Now this seems good when we’re dealing with personal evil that people do to each other. But when it comes to typhoons like this one that smacked the Philippines, i.e. natural evil, one wonders what the morally sufficient reasons for permitting there could be, and whether they are even possible?

It’s this particular typhoon I’d like to address, as I don’t think it is possible that God has morally sufficient reasons for this typhoon.

It seems that God so ordered this typhoon that aid is not able to get to the affected areas, leaving people to die of exposure, dehydration or their injuries if they weren’t killed outright by this storm. One could imagine that a storm such as this might be considered to be morally okay if help could get to people quickly, allowing for a “greater good” to come out of this evil in the form of aid, and people helping one another. But God just seems to have ordered this typhoon to frustrate transportation of people and aid and allow his beloved children to languish without any outside help.

Thoughts?
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You seem to speak of God with disdain as though there is a bitter taste in your mouth even though it is couched in question form. You also appear to have a remarkable knowledge of His mind. You also presume to judge Him as not being sufficiently moral. You state that your religion is catholic; however you disparage the institution in your first paragraph. Your intentions in writing what to me appears a very bitter post is not clear to me.
You are either taking the devil’s advocate stance to stir debate, or you worship a strange God far removed from my perception of God.
Jesus told his disciples after a local tragedy that bad things happen to the just as also to the unjust. We live in a fallen nature. Terrible weather events occur across the globe on a regular basis.
I believe God allows a fallen Nature to go its own way. Knowledge of and planned strategy are two distinct things.
Could He have stopped it? Certainly, but His intervention in Nature through miracles are always to show the lukewarm of His existence.
Who are we to judge the purpose of our God. Our response should be to put our hands in our pockets, donate what we can and humbly pray for His assistance in our assistance.
 
Remember the great storm in the Gospel,Jesus was sleeping during the storm…

A preacher said Jesus/God didn’t create the storm ,storms are a part of nature

but being God ,Jesus also has power and authority over the storms as we saw he stilled the storm
 
I suppose I think differently than most people. I do not see the logic in asking a question like this because we will never know the answer. Did God purposely send this storm to cause destruction or did it just happen?🤷

In the end, even if we knew, would it make any real difference? I don’t see how because if He did that would lead to the next question of, “But, why?”

I refuse to place blame on the Almighty, even if He is the controlling all things all the time. Who are we to question why God does what He does?
 
My own view of God is that He set up the naturals laws that order the universe, back at the Big Bang. The whole universe has been plugging along ever since based on those laws, pretty much a self-running machine. My personal opinion (but I could be wrong) is that God does not personally intervene or cause each and every little event, either terrestrial or celestial; He does not “personally ensure” that a typhoon hits the Phillipines any more than He “personally ensures” each particular drop of rain that falls hits a particular spot, or that He “personally ensured” that my waffles burnt this morning.

I think that if there is any fault to be laid here, it it at our feet. Humans have amazing God-given abilities to pull of the incredibly difficult (previously-thought impossible) feats: we’ve broken the sound barrier, split the atom, put a man on the moon. Who knows, as we break each previous paradigm of “you can’t do …” – we may just be able to square the circle, break the light barrier, or get the Leafs to win the Cup.

But as has been mentioned before: we gear our technology for war, creature comforts, and satisfying our lusts. We genetically modify crops so that they resist blight, but we modify them so that they are sterile and have to be continuously bought. We split the atom, but the preferred use is to (threaten to) do it over a large population centre.

By this time, maybe we should have machines that control the weather so that typhoons are sent out to sea rather than smashing into populated areas. Or ones that turn raw organic matter into edible food. Or cheaply desalinate sea water. Instead, we want to get more channels on TV, or get a bigger SUV, or whatever. Maybe if we put more effort into satisfying the true bodily and spiritual needs of our fellow man (the Good Samaritan, the “least of these”, faith without works and a body without breath) and less on our personal wants – especially money – then maybe we’d have less disaster.

I dunno…maybe I’m making no sense…I have to go to work now, maybe I’ll rejig this whole thing later.
 
Typhoons or other severe weather are not evil.

Who’s to say that any of the people who died, as a result of the storm, are worse off?

We can receive great benefits from suffering.
 
:confused: You appear to be saying on no account ever help anyone, it will do them far more good to suffer and die.
 
Weren’t natural disasters brought about by the fall of man? Or am I remembering my moral theology wrong?
 
sort of

God is the primary cause of this happening

but the secondary cause is the natural processes that are happening in our universe. So when God created the world he knew this would happen but it happens through natural processes.
 
So I guess that brings us to the definition of “cause”.

God knows perfectly when he creates someone whether they will go to Heaven or Hell, but God doesn’t CAUSE them to choose Hell, they freely choose it on their own. God is just aware of what their choice will be.

So based on your description, I’d say God did not cause natural disasters. Am I wrong?
 
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