***Good your thinking and that is a GREAT place to begin your search for the truth.
I must say, PJM, that although I always enjoy your posts, I find a few inaccuracies in this one. First, however, I agree with you that G-d never changes, because change would indicate that G-d is imperfect. Now to my criticism (which, of course, you are free to disagree with). You state that Moses added rules, laws, and commands; that these laws are man-made. If you’re referring to the Torah (first five books of the Tanakh: Hebrew Bible), Orthodox and Conservative Judaism do NOT believe Moses “composed” these, but that they are the inspired Word of G-d “dictated” to Moses together with the Ten Commandments. The Torah is also called the Written Law. Orthodox Jews particularly also believe that the Talmud–at least the Mishnah, if not the rabbinical commentaries, which comprise the Gemara–is divinely inspired at the same time, in order to better interpret the Torah, and it is called the Oral Law. You refer to the “eye for an eye” verse. Did you know that one Jewish interpretation of that passage is not only in terms of justice but of mercy? That is, one should restrict one’s actions to an eye, or a tooth, etc. (metaphorically speaking) and not demand or extract a punishment that goes beyond the crime committed despite one’s personal feelings. Even the death penalty–both in ancient Israel and today–though rare, has its justification as the beginning of the atonement process and actually is, in that sense, being merciful to the perpetrator of the crime since their punishment will be less severe in Purgatory (Gehinnom). It also provides justice to the victim of the crime as well as society. I’ll leave out your statement that the New Testament completes the prophesies of the Hebrew Bible; as I’m sure you already realize, this is a major bone of contention between Christians and Jews. However, another point you make that now (in the New Testament) charity is commanded whereas it was not before, and that it was not the norm, but rather the norm was might makes right, is simply incorrect. The Torah and the whole Tanakh emphasize time and again the importance of human mercy toward neighbor as well as enemy, toward other people, both Jew and Gentile, as well as animals. Love and compassion demonstrated through acts of charity is a basic tenet of Judaism both today and in ancient times.***Good your thinking and that is a GREAT place to begin your search for the truth.
NO! God never changes.
**Job.23: 3 *****“But he is unchangeable and who can turn him? What he desires, that he does.” … **Heb.6: 17 “**So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he interposed with an oath,”
Now the question becomes if God didn’t change how to account for this seemingly difference of opinion?
When God places someone in charge, God gives them all of the necessary authority and power to execute the position.
In comparing the OT to Jesus and the NT it is critial to right understanding that the purpose of the OT was 1. Historical 2. Prophsies 3. First steps towards change and a new understanding. The NT 1. Completes the OT prophisies 2. Perfects and imporves through a MUCH GREATER emphasis on charity [now COMMANDED] 3. Teaches what God Himself actually wants, desires and commands.
- The time period between Moses and Christ was approximately 2, 000 years, so culture changes are to be expected. Indeed, the process of “converting” the Hebrew Nation form false gods and false ways was a GREAT chlallange even for God.
- GOD personally gave Moses and the Jews 10 Commandments. They struggled even keeping those ten "things.’
- Moses added a great many additional rules, laws, commands. Among them were rules of “Jurisprudence” in an attempt to establish laws beyond “an eye for an eye” type mentality of the times. Keep in mind that “might makes right” was a big part of the culture.
- These were a people who equated “justice” with “must get even.” So many of the “laws” sought to accomplish this goal BECAUSE it was the ONLY acceptable goal to the people. Moses granting a “bill of divorce is another example of this.” The concept of charity was not foreign, but is also was not the norm.
- God by permiiting Moses to require LAWS that were enforceable was itself a HUGE part of the training and CONDITIONING of OBEDIENCE to laws ans commands that God sought. Additionally, God proves His TRUST in His appointees, also a necessary part of the Nations formulation to new and different ways.
The OTHER point is that in the T this was a consequence to MAN-MADE-LAW; now in the NT we being governed by GRACE [no-longer the “law”], it is what God deems as right[it was right all-along but the nation was not ready to accept it] that becomes the New Standard of behavior and JUSTICE by God’s standards, not our own.
Hope this clarifies it for you?
God Bless
Pat
***No my friend, what I am referencing here are the 300+ additions to the Commandments.
No, I was not aware of that. How far does that date back? That is really interestering. THANKS,
Where can I get more information on this? I was unaware of this too.
[Darn I hate it when that happens]. SINCERE THANKS for the corection!
I am grateful for the information!
It’s easier to think in terms of a Divine Pedagogy. Basically, of Israel as God’s first-born son, being slowly fathered through both the New and the Old. When one thinks in terms of Fatherhood, God is basically reaching out to a stubborn, prideful people who have been intellectually and spiritually darkened by the Fall. He is starting from scratch, as it were. This is in no way to state that there was not Grace prior to the cross, or that the Jews did not believe in Grace. However, both covenant rewards as well as covenant punishments in the Old Testament tended to be of an earthly, temporal nature. This would point to their spiritual realities in the New Covenant. This is a common theme of the spiritual life as understood by both Jews and Christians. The stages of the spiritual life were patterned in both the Tabernacle and the Temple, as one is progressively brought close to the Divine Presence. The earthly, animal sacrifices of the first stage led to interior spiritual truths of the second stage, where one finds the bread of the presence and a menorah.
Jews in the OT were saved by the same thing we are God’s grace through faith. May people think Jews were saved by obeying the Law of Moses, this is not true. Jews obeyed the law as best the could out or reverence and gratitude for God’s goodness, but keeping every part of the law was impossible. Peter called the Law of Moses a burden neither the forfathers or the apostles could bear (Acts 15:10). The point of the law was and is to maintain the Jews as a distinct ethnic and religious group to play their role in Jesus ministry and, I believe, a role in the end times (Read Revelations about the 144,000 Jewish witnesses who will evangelize the world as we near Christ’s return). Since Jesus extended God’s grace to Gentiles, the law was removed for them.
Judaism’s main focus is not salvation, but leading a moral earthly life. The Torah Law is designed to enable us to know how to lead such a life. I don’t know what Peter meant by calling the Law a burden; however, Moses said in Deuteronomy just the opposite: that it is not difficult to follow. No Orthodox Jew would say that following the Law is a burden. On the contrary, they would call it freedom by providing them with a sense of moral understanding and guidance. And the fact that no one can practice all the commandments perfectly is not a problem for the Torah Jew either, for G-d judges by our good intentions and prayer and desire for improvement. IOW, we don’t have to be perfect and G-d forgives our imperfections.
It is 144,000 Israelite’s not Jews. 12,000 of the 144,000 are Jews from the tribe of Judah. In my opinion and many others this has already been fulfilled however in 70 A.D.
Some of the laws definitely fit your description. However others such as the law that states that a man must not touch a menstruating woman is a burden without reason. The divorce laws especially were given by Moses because of the hardness of heart of the Israelite’s no? Moses ordered the sacrificing of cows, sheep, and goats because the Israelite’s kept trying to worship them because of their habits from their time in Egypt. By making them sacrifice these animals and throwing their blood on the people he made sure the point hit home that there is only one God.
There is a reason for EVERYTHING in the Torah. It is NEVER considered a burden to follow the commandments. Refraining from sex with one’s wife may not have a biological reason, but it has a psychological one: abstinence makes the heart grow fonder is one such. Animal sacrifice, never the main source of atonement, was based on the belief that the blood contained the life spirit of the animal, as stated in Leviticus. That’s also why Jews are forbidden to eat the blood of an animal: the koshering process drains the blood by adding salt. And animals must be killed using the sharpest needle available to inflict the least pain at the same time as a blessing must be said before the killing. I don’t know where you got the information that the sacrifices were made to discourage idolatry or that Moses threw the blood on the people. The sacrifices were done on the altar in the Temple. It may sound primitive and barbaric to us, but that was the Law, just as some of our laws may seem primitive to generations that follow.
Look at the animals he had them kill and when he laid down the idea of animal sacrifice. It was right after the golden calf. He wanted them to kill the three animals that the Egyptians were worshiping as god’s and they were tempted to worship as well. Coincidence?
These additional laws were permitted and recogonized by God. Remember this was a primitive people **not yet **on a par with the the Egyptians, Romana and Greeks.
THANKS, well done:thumbsup:
OK, but Moses did not throw the blood of the oxen on the people in anger as if to tell them not to worship false gods. Rather, it was sprinkled on them and the other half was sprinkled on the altar as a sign of the Covenant between G-d and Man.
I never said it was done in anger, but rather helped to get a point across. However I think you are taking this to mean that I’m saying the only reason animals were sacrificed were because of this line of reasoning and I’m not. We have animal sacrifices starting all the way back with Cain and Able. You also have Abraham setting the precedent that the first tenth of our labor goes to God. I think sacrifices were largely originally based out of this mentality that we are giving to God the best of the results of our labor as a sign of our realization that everything we have belongs to him.
I’m basing what I said on your post #11, indicating that Moses did not want the people to worship other gods and therefore threw the animal blood on them. I also think we’re straying too far from the OP topic.