Did God Create Evil

[davidv]

God created the Law so that sin could be possible. I forget the passage, but could be in 2 Cor(St. Paul)

AndyF

I don’t agree with this. God gave the law so that sin would be “recognized”.

 

[AndyF]

I don’t agree with this. God gave the law so that sin would be “recognized”.

Paul states that the purpose of the Law is to magnify transgression. But he also states that “where sin abounded mercy abounded still more”.

AndyF

 

[itisaniceday]

I don’t agree with this.

 

[jkiernan56]

Christ died on the Cross to destroy sin and evil - not just in the “world” but more personally in your life and mine.

If this is true, then the title of this thread makes no sense. God created evil and then sent His Son to destroy it? Is God schizophrenic? Can God not make up His mind?

No - evil does not come from God - but from our misuse of what is Good.

 

[Ace_of_Spades]

The question is this: did God create evil? In the creed each Sunday, we proclaim that “We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.” If God is the creator of all things seen and unseen and if evil exists and it can both be seen through the actions of people or unseen, does it follow that God created evil?

I just thought this might be of interest:

Isaiah chapter 45 verse 7 I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.

 

[Jermosh]

Evil is a perception of less then Good, or absence of Good. Sorta like Cold is lack of heat, or absence of Heat. Evil has no substance, no matter, Good is the substance that we can reject or rejoice.

 

[tonyrey]

Evil is a perception of less then Good, or absence of Good. Sorta like Cold is lack of heat, or absence of Heat. Evil has no substance, no matter, Good is the substance that we can reject or rejoice.

Evil is more than the absence of something. It is a reality that exists both in the mind and the world, i.e. it is moral or physical. Both moral evil and physical evil are dysteleological, i.e. they frustrate the purpose of existence in some way.

Moral evil arises when a person decides to damage, maim, torture or kill - either directly or indirectly. Physical evil occurs when suffering, death and destruction are caused by natural phenomena like disease, deformity, accidents and earthquakes.

Evil is therefore not created by God. It is the result of secondary causes: free will and physical conflict. No one has ever produced a blueprint of a perfect world for the simple reason that it is not feasible. In a complex system with many individuals pursuing different goals there is bound to be interference, failure and misery.

The only alternatives are to create a simpler world or not to create a world at all. Both would be inferior to our present world. A simpler world would lack richness and variety. A non-existent world would lack everything

 

[o_mlly]

Evil is not a “thing”. It does not have being, and it does not “exist”. Evil is a privation of something that should be present but is not. This is the point that tugbaby was trying to make. We might speak of evil existing, but this is only a loose manner of speaking. A privation is rather something else not existing that should exist, so evil is the absence of something.

This is an absolutely critical point. It was made brilliantly by St. Augustine and has been a cornerstone of Catholic philosophy ever since.

While a privation cannot be made, it can at least be caused, so there is still a sense in which it is worth asking, did God cause evil? To answer this, we must first make a distinction between moral evil, which God never causes, and physical evil, which God does cause. For God to will or cause moral evil would be a direct contradition of His Nature. It would be saying that something always right does some things wrong. It doesn’t even make logical sense that such a thing would be possible. If God exists, He cannot will or cause evil, just as a circle cannot be square.

Physical evil is a kind of privation, but is not directly opposed to goodness itself. An example of physical evil is the lion killing the zebra. Does something “bad” happen when the zebra dies? Sort of, but not really. Did the lion do something wrong? No. Yet, it is still considered a physical evil because a zebra is meant to exist as a whole, and it is not good for the zebra to be ripped apart–it is down right bad for the zebra.

Moral evil is the result of man’s or the angels’ free will (yes angels have free will). We have the ability to chose a lesser good rather than a greater good which we are supposed to chose. Sin is not directly choosing something bad, but it is choosing a lesser good when there is another greater good that should have been chosen.

Thank you for your insightful comment. I have some difficulty though in the logic that places God as the source of physical evil. Since evil is the absence of good, then God cannot be present in either of its forms – moral or physical.

Apply your logic of the lion killing the zebra in order to live to a human killing a cancer cell in order to live. If the latter is not a physical evil (which I believe it is not), then neither can the former. We label the cell as cancerous only because it threatens our normal life but it is still God’s creature in every respect as is the zebra God’s creature. If God meant the zebra to exist as a whole until its natural death then an immutable God would will that all his creatures exist until their natural death. However, I think God’s will in this respect applies only to those creatures made in His own image.

I rather think that all evil is the consequence of sin. The evil effects of sin ripple forward in time and space across all creation.

Peace,
O’Malley

 

[tonyrey]

I rather think that all evil is the consequence of sin. The evil effects of sin ripple forward in time and space across all creation.

Peace,
O’Malley

If all evil were the consequence of sin God would be unjust. Why would He allow all creation to suffer and be punished because some individuals have sinned?

 

[o_mlly]

If all evil were the consequence of sin God would be unjust. Why would He allow all creation to suffer and be punished because some individuals have sinned?

God permits evil because he loves us. Sin is the rejection of God’s grace; mortal sin is the radical rejection of God’s grace which severs our relationship with Him. Although God’s plan for us is a mystery, we know that free will is one of God’s gifts that make us in His image. Without free will, we could not be sinners; but, more importantly, we could not be saints. So out of charity, God permits evil. However, God is omni-benevolent and always brings good out of evil (“where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more”).

We often refer to our original sin as our felix culpa (happy fault) because this first sin brought our Incarnate Redeemer into the world to save us. Through Christ’s salvific action, God elevates man’s potential from Adam’s preternatural existence as an immortal in the Garden of Eden to the possibility of an eternal existence as participants in the life of the Holy Trinity itself.

God is always the protagonist and does all the heavy lifting required to bring about our salvation. We merely need to cooperate with His grace.

Peace,
O’Malley

 

[benedictus2]

If all evil were the consequence of sin God would be unjust. Why would He allow all creation to suffer and be punished because some individuals have sinned?

It is like this. If we look at our first parents as the first cell and their sin is a deformation of that cell, then everyone else who follows (after the cell splits to multiply) then everycell after that is deformed.

As for allowing suffering, if you bang your head against the wall and you get a mighty big and painful bump, it is a consequence of your action not a punishment for God.

This is why I love the story of Genesis. They fall and straight away God promises a saviour. Sin does not have the last word.

 

[benedictus2]

Evil is not a “thing”. It does not have being, and it does not “exist”. Evil is a privation of something that should be present but is not. This is the point that tugbaby was trying to make. We might speak of evil existing, but this is only a loose manner of speaking. A privation is rather something else not existing that should exist, so evil is the absence of something.

This is an absolutely critical point. It was made brilliantly by St. Augustine and has been a cornerstone of Catholic philosophy ever since.

While a privation cannot be made, it can at least be caused, so there is still a sense in which it is worth asking, did God cause evil? To answer this, we must first make a distinction between moral evil, which God never causes, and physical evil, which God does cause. For God to will or cause moral evil would be a direct contradition of His Nature. It would be saying that something always right does some things wrong. It doesn’t even make logical sense that such a thing would be possible. If God exists, He cannot will or cause evil, just as a circle cannot be square.

Physical evil is a kind of privation, but is not directly opposed to goodness itself. An example of physical evil is the lion killing the zebra. Does something “bad” happen when the zebra dies? Sort of, but not really. Did the lion do something wrong? No. Yet, it is still considered a physical evil because a zebra is meant to exist as a whole, and it is not good for the zebra to be ripped apart–it is down right bad for the zebra.

Moral evil is the result of man’s or the angels’ free will (yes angels have free will). We have the ability to chose a lesser good rather than a greater good which we are supposed to chose. Sin is not directly choosing something bad, but it is choosing a lesser good when there is another greater good that should have been chosen.

God does not cause physical evil although He allows it to happen. An all Good Being cannot cause something bad. That is a contradiction and contradictions don’t exist.

 

[benedictus2]

If all evil were the consequence of sin God would be unjust. Why would He allow all creation to suffer and be punished because some individuals have sinned?

Reply no2 to your post.

I recommend you read “Why does God permit evil?” by Dom Bruno Webb.

An excellent little book on the topic.

Another thought on evil. Creation is like a tapestry which we only see a section of. Furthermore we are looking at the back of the tapestry where its all a tangled mess of thread. But the otherside which we do not see (although we do get glimpses of it now and then) is coming along perfectly.

In the end the answer to all that is humility. Accept our creaturedness. He is God, Lord and Master of all and He knows what He is on about.

 

[Deacon_Joseph]

Didn’t evil exist prior to the creation of man? What about the fall of Satan?

God created Satan as a angel. Angels have free will, and Satan fell from grace because he chose not to be with God; out of his envy of mankind. And because he continues to envy humans, he tempts us to do the same(tempts us to distance ourselves from God by sinning and breaking His commandments).

Even though Satan has fallen from grace, he retains his angelic power and intelligence. That is why he is able to tempt us. God only permits this because He gave us a free will. Without free will you cannot have love, and God is love. :angel1:

 

[tonyrey]

Reply no2 to your post.

I recommend you read “Why does God permit evil?” by Dom Bruno Webb.

An excellent little book on the topic.

Another thought on evil. Creation is like a tapestry which we only see a section of. Furthermore we are looking at the back of the tapestry where its all a tangled mess of thread. But the otherside which we do not see (although we do get glimpses of it now and then) is coming along perfectly.

In the end the answer to all that is humility. Accept our creaturedness. He is God, Lord and Master of all and t.

God certainly knows what He is doing. He also expects us to use our power of reason and not evade problems by pleading ignorance. Obviously we cannot understand everything but that doesn’t mean we cannot understand anything. Great thinkers like St Thomas Aquinas have dedicated their lives to increasing our understanding of Christianity. We have an obligation to answer to the best of our ability objections to the faith. That is one of the reasons why this website exists.

The fact remains that if all evil in the universe were the consequence of sin God would be unjust. Why would He allow the whole of creation to suffer and be punished on account of a few individuals? Human beings are certainly affected by the sins of previous generations but that is not why animals and beings on other planets suffer and die. Suffering and death are the inevitable consequences of life in a physical environment. Jesus told us to fear those who kill the soul, not the body. There is no need to invoke moral evil to explain physical evil…

 

[SSTeacher]

The fact remains that if all evil in the universe were the consequence of sin God would be unjust. Why would He allow the whole of creation to suffer and be punished on account of a few individuals?

To which few individuals are you referring? Aren’t we all sinners?

Inquiringly,
Mick

 

[CGDouglas]

God created Satan as a angel. Angels have free will, and Satan fell from grace because he chose not to be with God; out of his envy of mankind. And because he continues to envy humans, he tempts us to do the same(tempts us to distance ourselves from God by sinning and breaking His commandments).

Even though Satan has fallen from grace, he retains his angelic power and intelligence. That is why he is able to tempt us. God only permits this because He gave us a free will. Without free will you cannot have love, and God is love. :angel1:

Didn’t God create evil when it was actually present in the knowledge of Good and Evil?

What Satan did was, yes free will, but when we hear in Genesis of an implementation of Knowledge of both Good and Evil, what do we make of that?

This is interesting to discuss, hope to hear.

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[SSTeacher]

Didn’t God create evil when it was actually present in the knowledge of Good and Evil?

What Satan did was, yes free will, but when we hear in Genesis of an implementation of Knowledge of both Good and Evil, what do we make of that?

This is interesting to discuss, hope to hear.

God Bless.

Chris.

Hi Chris,

I don’t think it’s correct to say that God created evil. Wouldn’t you agree that the concepts of good and evil could be likened to rust slowly forming on metal? So who created the rust?

Cordially,
Mick

 

[fhansen]

Didn’t God create evil when it was actually present in the knowledge of Good and Evil?

What Satan did was, yes free will, but when we hear in Genesis of an implementation of Knowledge of both Good and Evil, what do we make of that?

This is interesting to discuss, hope to hear.

God Bless.

Chris.

I think evil could be defined as any act outside the will of God-or IOW outside of the order God created. Satans’ act would easily qualify.

 

[CGDouglas]

Hi Chris,

I don’t think it’s correct to say that God created evil. Wouldn’t you agree that the concepts of good and evil could be likened to rust slowly forming on metal? So who created the rust?

Cordially,
Mick

The problem is, rust doesn’t have free will to decide to form on a metal, it’s chemical by law.

I think the analogy maybe going into a place where free will is of discussion, we’ll ignore that.

I do find interesting that the quotations from scripture:

•(Isaiah 45:7, KJV) - “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

It does argue for a good possibility that evil was created, in choice to choose between Good and Evil, it is possible, but I’m just being hypothetical, I stay true to God not creating evil.

Again, it’s an interesting topic.

God Bless.

Chris.