Did God Create Evil

[Prodigal_Son]

Again I respectfully disagree. God is neither the direct or indirect “CAUSE” of evil.

God gives existence to what is Good. He does not CAUSE it to become corrupted. He gives the “means” for it to be corrupted, but giving the means DOES NOT indirectly CAUSE evil (ie - good to be corrupted).

If I gave you a hammer as a gift to build a house and you use it to bash someone’s head in with it - my giving you the hammer DID NOT CAUSE you to use it in a destructive way. My giving you a gift is NOT the CAUSE or even INDIRECT CAUSE of you using it to do evil. I reject any notion or inference that God is either the CAUSE or INDIRECT CAUSE of evil. The “means” to do evil DOES NOT CAUSE evil - but certainly allows the possibility. Allowing the possibility of evil again DOES NOT directly or indirectly CAUSE evil.

This is simply a debate about the meaning of “cause”, so far as I can tell. If “cause” means any act which leads to another act (with however many acts intervening), which is what I take it to mean, then God indirectly causes evil.

If cause means to effect some action, then God does not directly or indirectly cause evil. But what would meant by an “indirect cause”, then?

 

[eggsbenedict]

If I gave you a hammer as a gift to build a house and you use it to bash someone’s head in with it - my giving you the hammer DID NOT CAUSE you to use it in a destructive way.

I’m not satisfied with this analogy. Let’s take premarital sex for example. God created man. God created woman. God created sexual attraction and sex drive.

**jkiernan56:**A person who thinks and reasons clearly would understand that creating the “possibility of evil” IS NOT the same as doing or creating evil.

Look at my example above. That’s just not “creating the possibility of sin” (sin as defined by Catholicism), that’s encouraging it!

 

[eggsbenedict]

**Podo2005:**No… because evil is not a thing…

So your saying that evil does not exist?

SSTeacherpresence of evil in creation can realistically be likened to the appearance of rust**
Rust in human made things is not desirable. If humans were perfect, we would not make things that rust. It’s a bad analogy.**

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I’m not satisfied with this analogy. Let’s take premarital sex for example. God created man. God created woman. God created sexual attraction and sex drive.

You’re playing with fire here, Eggs. God created you to restrain your impulses long enough to provide security to a beautiful and vulnerable woman, to make a promise, and then to have make the heavens ring with your mutual pleasure.

But to treat her like a sex toy, and toss her to the curb? No. That’s something we invented.

 

[eggsbenedict]

You’re playing with fire here, Eggs. God created you to restrain your impulses long enough to provide security to a beautiful and vulnerable woman, to make a promise, and then to have make the heavens ring with your mutual pleasure.

But to treat her like a sex toy, and toss her to the curb? No. That’s something we invented.

Let’s not get off topic here (sexuality should be another forum entirely). I never said anything that implied that women should only be treated as objects.

I was merely trying to make a point that the “hammer” example is not applicable to all sins.

So I ask again, did God, or did God not, encourage “sin” by putting us in this situation?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

So I ask again, did God, or did God not, encourage “sin” by putting us in this situation?

He did not. A well-raised child has little difficulty controlling his impulses. If we fall into sin and start raising our children badly, that is only indirectly caused by God (like I am the cause of my son stealing).

My apologies, by the way, if you thought I was implying something about you. That was not at all the intent.

 

[jkiernan56]

I’m not satisfied with this analogy. Let’s take premarital sex for example. God created man. God created woman. God created sexual attraction and sex drive.

**jkiernan56:**A person who thinks and reasons clearly would understand that creating the “possibility of evil” IS NOT the same as doing or creating evil.

Look at my example above. That’s just not “creating the possibility of sin” (sin as defined by Catholicism), that’s encouraging it!

Now you are delving into another subject called CONCUPISCENCE.
Here is a link to it if you want to know what this means -

newadvent.org/cathen/04208a.htm

 

[tobias]

The question is this: did God create evil? In the creed each Sunday, we proclaim that “We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.” If God is the creator of all things seen and unseen and if evil exists and it can both be seen through the actions of people or unseen, does it follow that God created evil?

Evil is rejection of the Creator and His plans by His creatures. God’s creatures, in His ‘likeness’, created evil.
God created man and all the materials used to make an automobile, but God did not create the automobile.

 

[jkiernan56]

Evil is rejection of the Creator and His plans by His creatures. God’s creatures, in His ‘likeness’, created evil.
God created man and all the materials used to make an automobile, but God did not create the automobile.

The automobile is good, but this good can be misused and cause harm. You cannot have evil without the good existing before it is misused.

All that God created is good. Evil is not something created by God, but rather a corruption of goodness - something God allowed to happen as a result of giving mankind the ability to know and choose.

 

[Contemplare]

Evil is the absence of Goodness. I think it’s not a creation, but an absence of creation.

Take for instance: Black is not a color, rather, it is the absence of color. Space is not a creation, rather, it is the absence of Matter.

The absence of something is not a creation, but the lack of it.

 

[jkiernan56]

Evil is the absence of Goodness. I think it’s not a creation, but an absence of creation.

Take for instance: Black is not a color, rather, it is the absence of color. Space is not a creation, rather, it is the absence of Matter.

The absence of something is not a creation, but the lack of it.

In all that God created, was anything lacking?
Did God create the absence of something in anything that He created?

I do not agree with the idea or definition that Evil is the lack or absence of Good.
Evil requires Good.
Good does not require Evil.

Evil cannot exist unless WHAT IS GOOD exists first … and then WHAT IS GOOD is corrupted.

Again, I ask did God create anything corrupted?

Evil does not exist in a vacuum as a ‘thing’ in and of itself.
God did not create the ‘thing’ called evil.
Evil does not exist without what is Good going off the track.
The substance of Evil is Goodness that has been corrupted somehow.
Evil depends on the existence of what is Good.
Good does not depend on Evil in order to exist.
You must first have WHAT IS GOOD before Evil can exist.

Disease does not exist without Health and Wholeness.

 

[Contemplare]

In all that God created, was anything lacking?
Did God create the absence of something in anything that He created?

I do not agree with the idea or definition that Evil is the lack or absence of Good.
Evil requires Good.
Good does not require Evil.

Evil cannot exist unless WHAT IS GOOD exists first … and then WHAT IS GOOD is corrupted.

Again, I ask did God create anything corrupted?

Evil does not exist in a vacuum as a ‘thing’ in and of itself.
God did not create the ‘thing’ called evil.
Evil does not exist without what is Good going off the track.
The substance of Evil is Goodness that has been corrupted somehow.
Evil depends on the existence of what is Good.
Good does not depend on Evil in order to exist.
You must first have WHAT IS GOOD before Evil can exist.

Disease does not exist without Health and Wholeness.

Please don’t get me wrong, I do agree that God did not create Evil. Evil is not created by God just like the trees, animals, and humans. It just rooted out of Goodness. I just described that evil will exist if goodness turned into evil, thus, absence of goodness. Evil depends on the existence of what is good. Yes, it is relative to goodness. For example: Truth. Truth is good. But how will lie, which is evil, exist without the existence of truth? And yes, I agree that good does not depend on evil to exist because good was created by God in the first place.

 

[jkiernan56]

Please don’t get me wrong, I do agree that God did not create Evil. Evil is not created by God just like the trees, animals, and humans. It just rooted out of Goodness. I just described that evil will exist if goodness turned into evil, thus, absence of goodness. Evil depends on the existence of what is good. Yes, it is relative to goodness. For example: Truth. Truth is good. But how will lie, which is evil, exist without the existence of truth? And yes, I agree that good does not depend on evil to exist because good was created by God in the first place.

Thank you for clarifying that for me. You and I are on the same page. Sorry for my misunderstanding.

 

[johngh]

You make the mistake of thinking “evil” is in itself something. Evil is not the presence of itself, it is the absence of good. Much like there is no such thing as cold, only the absence of heat.

 

[jkiernan56]

You make the mistake of thinking “evil” is in itself something. Evil is not the presence of itself, it is the absence of good. Much like there is no such thing as cold, only the absence of heat.

Is Heat good or evil?
Is Cold good or evil?

Is the absence of heat a negative?
The analogy of evil as “an absence of good” is not an adequate model or representation.

In every evil is a good that is being corrupted. It is Goodness that is being misused or corrupted in some way. Evil requires context of the Good in order to have any meaning or definition at all.

You cannot have a lie without the truth.
You cannot have a disease without health.
You cannot have evil without it’s associated good.

A lie only has meaning in context of what is truth.
A disease only has meaning in context of what is health.
Evil only has meaning in context of what is Good.

 

[tobias]

The automobile is good, but this good can be misused and cause harm. You cannot have evil without the good existing before it is misused.

All that God created is good. Evil is not something created by God, but rather a corruption of goodness - something God allowed to happen as a result of giving mankind the ability to know and choose.

??? My post did was not in contradiction to this???/

 

[jkiernan56]

??? My post did was not in contradiction to this???/

??? huh ???
would you please clarify your point?

 

[djeter]

David Bentley Hart,an orthodox theologian writing in Fr. Richard Neuhaus’ First Things wrote a brilliant article entitled “Tsunami and Theodicy” taking many Christians to task for their ill thought out theological responses to the 2004 tsunami that engulfed South Asia back in 2004. There is an immense amount you can learn about the issue of evil and God(Theodicy) here:

payingattentiontothesky.com/422/tsunami-and-theodicy-by-david-b-hart/

In Christ,

dj

 

[James_S_Saint]

The question is this: did God create evil? In the creed each Sunday, we proclaim that “We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.” If God is the creator of all things seen and unseen and if evil exists and it can both be seen through the actions of people or unseen, does it follow that God created evil?

Yep.

Your job is to learn to deal with it.

 

[johngh]

There is no such thing as evil, only a lack of good (aka a lack of God)