Did God INTEND to create us, if so where is our free will?

[Prodigal_Son]

Gee Lucy, thank you for educating me. I’ll quit the Catholic Church now and take up backgammon! :clapping:

 

[donsnow]

Simple question for you: when was the Lamb slain? I’ll give you an opportunity to look that up.

Hi, ckempston -

That’s not an easy question, although simple.

Well, the paschal lamb was slain at Passover, for the Cheder meal. The Lamb of God, afaik, was slain at calvary.

Don

 

[donsnow]

I’m not blaming God, because I believe in free will.

Oh

OK:thumbsup:

 

[donsnow]

I would just like to say that if any of you actually did believe in hell, you would never sin once in your lives, you would be absolutely scared to death, it would be horrific, because you know that you are under total surveillance, even your thoughts! Especially if you don’t know if god capricious like he is, has chosen you to be a sinner!!
Don’t tell me you do believe, because that would mean you couldn’t possibly have sinned, risking eternal pain, torment and horror, nobody would surely be that stupid!!
Hence no hell, so do we all go to heaven or is it just like before we were born?

Hi, lucy -

Well, when I was younger, I didn’t worry about hell-fire and I heard some sermons on it in the Baptist church. However, after I converted to the Holy Roman Catholic church, and as I have passed my middle years, I take it more seriously. And, am now living to repent it all, before I burn forever. I don’t want to be with the Devil, now or later.

Don

 

[buffalo]

As for me and my house, we shall choose reality.

A reality limited by our 5 senses, 3 dimensions and time. A reality that is limited much like a flatlander who cannot perceive of a 3rd dimension much less live in it. This view is like looking at creation through my Christmas wrapping paper tube, that is a narrow and incomplete view. This is irrational. I have no respect for that.

 

[donsnow]

As for me and my house, we shall choose reality.

Well, Lucy,

Heaven, Earth and Hell are all part of reality. And, what you call reality is a temporary part of the kingdom of God, which is eternal.

May all of you enjoy a wondrous Christmas season and a peaceful New Year.

Don

 

[Mystic_Banana]

Contradictory Justice

One need look to no source other than the Bible to discover its imperfections, for it contradicts itself and thus exposes its own imperfection.

One needs to look no further than atheists with cheesy “jokes-about-authors” names to discover the fanatical refusal to interpret reality, including sacred texts of any number of religions, via any possibility beyond their own bigoted tunnel vision, and deny the interpretations of anyone else, including those who have read them more carefully

Contradictory History

The Bible contradicts itself on matters of history.

I’m pretty sure this lot really belongs, and has probably already been dealt with, on the “Sacred Scripture” thread

Unfulfilled Prophecy

The Bible misinterprets its own prophecies.

Prophecies are often pretty loose… interpretation is as with anything… interpretation! Anyway, Sacred Scripture thread? Fancy sticking the same old waffle there?

The Omniscient Changes the Future

A God who knows the future is powerless to change it. An omniscient God who is all-powerful and freewilled is impossible.

The Omniscient is Surprised

A God who knows everything cannot have emotions. The Bible says that God experiences all of the emotions of humans, including anger, sadness, and happiness. We humans experience emotions as a result of new knowledge. A man who had formerly been ignorant of his wife's infidelity will experience the emotions of anger and sadness only after he has learned what had previously been hidden. In contrast, the omniscient God is ignorant of nothing. Nothing is hidden from him, nothing new may be revealed to him, so there is no gained knowledge to which he may emotively react.


We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who experiences emotion is impossible.

Aha! Relevance to thread! Your vision is narrowed to a strictly deterministic one. An omniscient God can know every single possibility, and also, ensure that prophecy comes to pass if he want to, if he also is omnipotent. If we have free will, God can be surprised we have taken a particular route - but that route would be nonetheless known to him. He can also be angry we’ve chosen that route. He could also, if he so wished, enforce us to take a particular route, although that would deny free will. If he inspires prophecy, he could also ensure that prophecy is fulfilled. You fail to demonstrate effectively why an omnipotent God should be incapable of anything, never mind emotions

The Conclusion of the matter

I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non- existence, of the Christian God Yahweh. No reasonable and freethinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is so contradictory as that of Yahweh, the "perfect" creator of our imperfect universe. The existence of Yahweh is as impossible as the existence of cubic spheres or invisible pink unicorns.



Should any Christian who reads this persist in defending these impossibilities through means of "divine transcendence" and "faith," and should any Christian continue to call me an atheist fool, I will be forced to invoke the wrath of the Invisible Pink Unicorn:

“You are a fool for denying the existence of the IPU. You have rejected true faith and have relied on your feeble powers of human reason and thus arrogantly denied the existence of Her Divine Transcendence, and so are you condemned.”

If such arguments are good enough for Yahweh, they are good enough for Her Invisible Pinkness.

As for me and my house, we shall choose reality.

Your conclusions collapse under their own illogical pretention. Come back when you can come up with a sensible argument :yawn:

I’ll risk the wrath of the Unicorn I somehow suspect you’d faint in horror at the thought of actually existing - anyway, I bet he/she/it would be on Gods side if he/she/it had any sense, assuming he/she/it actually exists/ed

Anyway - Happy Christmas and a merry New Year to all! And many of 'em! :christmastree1: