Did God Make A Mistake?

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paarsurrey said:
Hi
The scriptures have been misunderstood; the realities have been covered from the eye. We shall have to go deeper into the scriptures to uncover realities hidden so far.There is no harm in making a deep study.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
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What part of this has been misunderstood. This is Jesus’ words shortly before His Ascension in Luke:
And he said to them, "Thus it is written that the Messiah would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day and that repentance, for the forgiveness of sins, would be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.
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Now out of these 11 witnesses (actually there were a total of 500 but we’ve been down that road before, eh?), 10 of them would be executed without denying any of the Good News of the Gospel.
 
NotWorthy said:
Yes, Didn’t God die on the Cross?

Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David were the Covenant Mediators.
Adam’s Covenant was with all married couples.
Noah’s Covenant was with all families.
Abraham’s Covenant was with all the tribes of Israel.
Moses Covenant was with the nation of Israel.
David’s Covenant was with the Kingdom of Israel.
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And Jesus made a Covenant with all mankind.
 
BelFarfalla said:
And Jesus made a Covenant with all mankind.
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Hi
That is a misunderstanding. JesusYeshuaIss himself witnessed that he has been sent to the House of Israel, but my friends don’t listen to him and listen to the clergy. Please belief what Jesus says.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
That is a misunderstanding. JesusYeshuaIss himself witnessed that he has been sent to the House of Israel, but my friends don’t listen to him and listen to the clergy. Please belief what Jesus says.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
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ALL MANKIND, PAAR.

That means even you can be saved, if you just repent and be baptized! If He can save a wretch like me, there’s nothing He can’t do! 🙂
 
NotWorthy said:
What part of this has been misunderstood. This is Jesus’ words shortly before His Ascension in Luke:
Now out of these 11 witnesses (actually there were a total of 500 but we’ve been down that road before, eh?), 10 of them would be executed without denying any of the Good News of the Gospel.
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Hi
The believers are to show greater signs as witnessed by JesusYesushuaIssa, if he resurrected people from the dead, as per the misunderstanding of the scribes, please resurrect the ten for witnessing from the dead. Please don’t mind, this is only that you may realize, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked it.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
The believers are to show greater signs as witnessed by JesusYesushuaIssa, if he resurrected people from the dead, as per the misunderstanding of the scribes, please resurrect the ten for witnessing from the dead. Please don’t mind, this is only that you may realize, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked it.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
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As the Jews were in the Gospel of John, you are looking at worldly things, when Jesus asks you to look at heavenly things!!!

The Catholic Church has resurrected millions and maybe even billions of souls and brought them to eternal life.
 
NotWorthy said:
As the Jews were in the Gospel of John, you are looking at worldly things, when Jesus asks you to look at heavenly things!!!
The Catholic Church has resurrected millions and maybe even billions of souls and brought them to eternal life.
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Hi
It is good that you have realized that no real dead or literally dead were resurrected by JesusYeshuaIssa; only near-dead with medicine and prayers were cured by him. Similarly he himself got cured from the wounds on the Cross. Have I understood you correctly? I think that is what you mean by looking at heavenly things, so I have understood you correctly. May GodAllahYHWH bless you!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
It is good that you have realized that no real dead or literally dead were resurrected by JesusYeshuaIssa; only near-dead with medicine and prayers were cured by him.
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No, I didn’t realize that I said that. Thanks for enlightening me on the meaning behind my words
Similarly he himself got cured from the wounds on the Cross. Have I understood you correctly? I think that is what you mean by looking at heavenly things, so I have understood you correctly. May GodAllahYHWH bless you!
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
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No, Jesus did these things so that you may believe. He’s not a dime-show Houdini that made up tricks and then lied about them later on. I certainly don’t hope you think my Lord and Savior was a sheister, do you?:confused:
 
Just like it takes two to tango, it takes two to make and keep a covenant. If we go back to Exodus 19 we find a clue.

Exodus 19: 5-6 Now therefore, if you will obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my own possession among all peoples; for all the earth is mine, and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."

Notice it says “IF you will obey my voice”. The old covenant was broken often by Israel due to their disobedience and hardness of heart, thereby, legalistically speaking, nullifying the covenant. God gave them many second chances but they still would not obey. So God unilaterally fulfilled the Old Covenant by creating the New Covenant to un-hardened their hearts.
 
volzcpa said:
Just like it takes two to tango, it takes two to make and keep a covenant. If we go back to Exodus 19 we find a clue.

Exodus 19: 5-6 Now therefore, if you will obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my own possession among all peoples; for all the earth is mine, and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."

Notice it says “IF you will obey my voice”. The old covenant was broken often by Israel due to their disobedience and hardness of heart, thereby, legalistically speaking, nullifying the covenant. God gave them many second chances but they still would not obey. So God unilaterally fulfilled the Old Covenant by creating the New Covenant to un-hardened their hearts.
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I’m sorry, but a covenant is not like a contract. You just can’t break it.

For instance, it doesn’t say, “if you break my covenant, then it is over.…”. In Deuteronomy 28, Israel will have to face punishments for breaking the covenant. This could only be done if the Covenant were still in effect.
 
For those who claim that the Jews are still in covenant with God, which covenant would that be? and is this covenant salvific?

It is clear from past magisterial pronouncements (I’m thinking of Council of Florence which is dogma and Pius XII) that the Mosaic law is abolished and not just for Christians, but for everyone. All covenants made in the Old Testament find their fulfillment in Christ.

Many bring up Vat II’s documents, but these documents must be interpreted in light of past Magisterial teachings and the Tradition of the Church. There is not one doctor or Church Father who believed that the Jews are still in Covenant with God and that the new Israel is the Church.
 
From Cardinal Ratzinger’s book “Many Religions-One Covenant”

God, according to the Prophet, will replace the broken Sinai covenant with a New Covenant that cannot be broken…The conditional covenant, which depended on man’s faithful observance of the Law, is replaced by the unconditional covenant in which God binds himself irrevocably" (page 64).

“Thus the Sinai covenant is indeed superseded.” (p. 70)

“In 2 Corinthians, Paul sets these two in diametrical opposition: the former is transitory; the latter abides perpetually. Transience is characteristic of the Mosaic covenant; Paul see this symbolized by the stone Tables of the Law. Stone signifies what is dead; anyone who remains exclusively in the realm of the Law written in stone remains in the realm of death” (page 53)

“While the text initially stresses most strongly the fact that the Mosaic covenant is now a thing of the past, doomed to collapse, a new and altered perspective emerges at the end: Anyone who turns to the Lord will find that the veil is taken away from his heart, and he will see the Law’s inner radiance, its pneumatic light; so he will be able to read it correctly” (page 54).
 
NotWorthy said:
I’m sorry, but a covenant is not like a contract. You just can’t break it.

For instance, it doesn’t say, “if you break my covenant, then it is over.…”. In Deuteronomy 28, Israel will have to face punishments for breaking the covenant. This could only be done if the Covenant were still in effect.
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Actually a covenant is pretty much a contract. There are penalties for breaking a contract. But I agree that God didn’t abandon or end the covenant.
 
Valke2 said:
Actually a covenant is pretty much a contract. There are penalties for breaking a contract. But I agree that God didn’t abandon or end the covenant.
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If you break a covenant, and you suffer punishments for breaking it, then it sounds like you are still bound by the covenant.

With that said, I agree that God certainly wouldn’t break His Covenant. So, how do you break a covenant?
 
The problem is not that God breaks covenants which no one claims. The problem is trying to rectify the Christian claim of God making a covenant with the Jewish people on the basis of their acceptance of certain beliefs and then God asking the Jews to accept things that were an anathema to those beliefs and a step backwards towards Roman paganism. This of course is clearly illogical.
 
chosen_people said:
The problem is not that God breaks covenants which no one claims. The problem is trying to rectify the Christian claim of God making a covenant with the Jewish people on the basis of their acceptance of certain beliefs and then God asking the Jews to accept things that were an anathema to those beliefs and a step backwards towards Roman paganism. This of course is clearly illogical.
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Or is it more like what Jesus asked the Apostles in John chapter 6, “Will you leave me, too”.

Although Peter didn’t have a clue what Jesus was talking about, eating His Body, drinking His Blood, gnawing, gnashing, grinding, he still replied, “Lord, to who else will we turn? For you have the words of Everlasting Life”!

The Jews also represent the rich brothers in the story of Lazarus and, of course, the older brother in the Prodigal Son.
 
NotWorthy said:
Or is it more like what Jesus asked the Apostles in John chapter 6, “Will you leave me, too”.

Although Peter didn’t have a clue what Jesus was talking about, eating His Body, drinking His Blood, gnawing, gnashing, grinding, he still replied, “Lord, to who else will we turn? For you have the words of Everlasting Life”!

The Jews also represent the rich brothers in the story of Lazarus and, of course, the older brother in the Prodigal Son.
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I think “eating the body and drinking his blood” is an excellent example of what I was talking about.
 
NotWorthy said:
If you break a covenant, and you suffer punishments for breaking it, then it sounds like you are still bound by the covenant.

With that said, I agree that God certainly wouldn’t break His Covenant. So, how do you break a covenant?
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Well, keep in mind that I’m an attorney. Meaning that I tend to take an annoying view of things. Any human can break a covenant. “I agree to pay you $20 and you agree to fix my fence.” That’s a covenant. Either side can break it easily. However, if you don’t fix my fence, I can still honor the covenant and pay you the $20.00. Or I can not pay you the $20.00 and argue that you breached the agreement. I suppose God chooses to honor the covenant despite the ocassional breach by us.
 
Valke2 said:
Well, keep in mind that I’m an attorney. Meaning that I tend to take an annoying view of things. Any human can break a covenant. “I agree to pay you $20 and you agree to fix my fence.” That’s a covenant. Either side can break it easily. However, if you don’t fix my fence, I can still honor the covenant and pay you the $20.00. Or I can not pay you the $20.00 and argue that you breached the agreement. I suppose God chooses to honor the covenant despite the ocassional breach by us.
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OK, now I see. What you are calling a Covenant, I call a Contract.

I understood a contract to be just as your example states. But in a Covenant, you offer something of yourself and swear an oath over the Covenant.

I guess the best way to put it, In our secular world, a marriage at the JP is a contract. The Church views a Sacramental marriage as a Coveanant. The two become one, and what God has joined together, let no man tear apart.
 
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