Did God make us genetically/biologically inclined to sin?

[TimothyIgnatius]

It seems that way sometimes, at least when it comes to sexuality. I mean, the Church uses the biology of humans in a way to defend it’s stances (i.e. sex is for procreation, God made sex pleasurable so people would make babies, etc) but seems to neglect the fact that the biology of humans also gives us an inclination to sin (hormones, pheromones, etc). So what I’m wondering is why God would make us genetically inclined to do things he wouldn’t want us to do?

 

[dshix]

It seems that way sometimes, at least when it comes to sexuality. I mean, the Church uses the biology of humans in a way to defend it’s stances (i.e. sex is for procreation, God made sex pleasurable so people would make babies, etc) but seems to neglect the fact that the biology of humans also gives us an inclination to sin (hormones, pheromones, etc). So what I’m wondering is why God would make us genetically inclined to do things he wouldn’t want us to do?

God didn’t make us inclined to sin; * concupiscence* did. Original sin planted in our souls that inclination to pervert the goods which God has given us and turn them to evil.

 

[The_Blunt_Brig]

Adam and Eve ate the apple and there you go. We get the desire to sin passed on from them.

 

[TimothyIgnatius]

God didn’t make us inclined to sin; * concupiscence* did. Original sin planted in our souls that inclination to pervert the goods which God has given us and turn them to evil.

So it’s original sin that manages the hormonal balance of our brains? I can understand that Adam and Eve eating the fruit had an impact on our spiritual self, but I didn’t know their action affected our actual biology…

 

[TimothyIgnatius]

Is what you’re suggesting is that original sin is not a state of spirituality but actually just a hormonal imbalance?

 

[The_Blunt_Brig]

He is fine with sex with married people. He wants the world to continue to have people so he makes the act pleasurable.

Like Augustine said, the “temperate [that’s a virtue] man finds confirmation of the rule forbidding him to love the things of this life, or to deem any of them desirable for its own sake, and commanding him to avail himself of those things with the** moderation of a user not the attachment of a lover**, in so far as they are requisite for the needs of this life and of his station.”

 

[The_Blunt_Brig]

Is what you’re suggesting is that original sin is not a state of spirituality but actually just a hormonal imbalance?

Original sin is both. It has spiritual effects and temptation effects.

 

[TimothyIgnatius]

He is fine with sex with married people. He wants the world to continue to have people so he makes the act pleasurable.

Like Augustine said, the “temperate [that’s a virtue] man finds confirmation of the rule forbidding him to love the things of this life, or to deem any of them desirable for its own sake, and commanding him to avail himself of those things with the** moderation of a user not the attachment of a lover**, in so far as they are requisite for the needs of this life and of his station.”

He’s not ok with masturbation. Is puberty also a side-effect of original sin? Show me a 14 year old boy who hasn’t experimented with it, and I’ll show you a 14 year old male liar. Unless he doesn’t have arms, but then he’d probably just find a way to get creative…

Is the temptation really presented there by evil or the devil or just being selfish or because of original sin, or is it partly because of biology? If that’s so then why are those in puberty, who are dealing with raging hormones, seemingly more likely to fall into some sort of sexual sin?

If we are made in the image of God, isn’t God reflected in our biology? Did God alter our biology to make it harder for us after Adam and Eve made their mistake?

 

[Ad_Orientem]

Adam and Eve were created in original justice. They still had feelings but these were perfectly subordinate to reason. After the fall, our passions got out of control and now dominate, so that they won’t listen to reason. To make matters worse, our intellect is also darkened, and our will weakened, so that even when we know what the best thing to do is, we don’t always do it.

But if you’re thinking “subordinate to reason, yuck!” consider this. We have this strange idea that happiness consists in the unbridled pursuit of pleasure, but this actually brings less fulfillment because we pin our hopes on what passes away and are ultimately disappointed.

 

[Christianus_Dei]

Is what you’re suggesting is that original sin is not a state of spirituality but actually just a hormonal imbalance?

Original sin distorted us. It distorted how we see each other, and how we see sexuality. It weakened us. Masturbation is not the same thing as puberty, nor is it part of puberty. The tempter can use puberty against us, but it is supposed to be a good thing. God wants human beings to have sex, in the right time and place. The problem is when we allow physical loves to take priority over the spiritual ones.

Basically, we were damaged by original sin, we were perfect, now we are not. Now Satan can use that imperfection for his own ends.

 

[TimothyIgnatius]

Adam and Eve were created in original justice. They still had feelings but these were perfectly subordinate to reason. After the fall, our passions got out of control and now dominate, so that they won’t listen to reason. To make matters worse, our intellect is also darkened, and our will weakened, so that even when we know what the best thing to do is, we don’t always do it.

Except this line of thought completely ignores everything I’ve asked, because it doesn’t take natural biology into account.

But if you’re thinking “subordinate to reason, yuck!” consider this. We have this strange idea that happiness consists in the unbridled pursuit of pleasure, but this actually brings less fulfillment because we pin our hopes on what passes away and are ultimately disappointed.

I don’t disagree, but this has nothing to do with what I was trying to get at in my original post.

 

[TimothyIgnatius]

Original sin distorted us. It distorted how we see each other, and how we see sexuality. It weakened us. Masturbation is not the same thing as puberty, nor is it part of puberty. The tempter can use puberty against us, but it is supposed to be a good thing. God wants human beings to have sex, in the right time and place. The problem is when we allow physical loves to take priority over the spiritual ones.

Basically, we were damaged by original sin, we were perfect, now we are not. Now Satan can use that imperfection for his own ends.

So now Satan controls our biology and biological impulses? It’s the work of the devil when someone smells pheromones and becomes sexually stimulated?

 

[georget]

Good question. I believe the answer is no, the impulse is biological , what we do with the impulse, the reaction to it is where belief comes in to play. Do you give in or do you not. I don’t know if that answers your question, it’a all I got.

 

[dshix]

So it’s original sin that manages the hormonal balance of our brains? I can understand that Adam and Eve eating the fruit had an impact on our spiritual self, but I didn’t know their action affected our actual biology…

Is what you’re suggesting is that original sin is not a state of spirituality but actually just a hormonal imbalance?

You did not understand what I said. Original sin didn’t do anything to our biology or hormones; those were there as they are in the first place; they are part of the beauty of sexuality. The reason they can be problematic now is because concupiscence perverted sex into something it isn’t. Biology has always been there, and it is just as beautiful and perfect now as it was then; but sin has used it improperly.

He’s not ok with masturbation. Is puberty also a side-effect of original sin? Show me a 14 year old boy who hasn’t experimented with it, and I’ll show you a 14 year old male liar. Unless he doesn’t have arms, but then he’d probably just find a way to get creative…

I never masturbated. You have a very gloomy image of the world, my friend.

 

[TimothyIgnatius]

Good question. I believe the answer is no, the impulse is biological , what we do with the impulse, the reaction to it is where belief comes in to play. Do you give in or do you not. I don’t know if that answers your question, it’a all I got.

I agree that we are left to fight the impulse, but what I’m wondering is why our biology seems to enforce our impulses.

You did not understand what I said. Original sin didn’t do anything to our biology or hormones; those were there as they are in the first place; they are part of the beauty of sexuality. The reason they can be problematic now is because concupiscence perverted sex into something it isn’t. Biology has always been there, and it is just as beautiful and perfect now as it was then; but sin has used it improperly.

Very interesting. Does this mean that Adam and Eve, prior to the eating of the fruit, had different reactions to their body’s biology than man and woman have since then? It’s still very confusing, but I think I am at least starting grasp a more complete idea of where you’re coming from. Are you saying that original sin has essential changed how our minds perceive our biological inclinations?

I never masturbated. You have a very gloomy image of the world, my friend.

I’ll take your word for it, but you might be the exception that proves the rule. You have a fortitude stronger than most, and I admire you for it. But the fact remains that kids in puberty are more likely to masturbate than anyone else, and this is correlated to the biology of their bodies during that period of their lifetime. Haven’t you ever noticed a trend amongst the repentant? Wild and crazy (read:sinful) in their teen days, repentant and pious in their older days? Certainly biology comes into play somewhere. I’m just trying to make sense of it, perhaps I won’t be able too. God works in mysterious ways, after all.

 

[dshix]

Very interesting. Does this mean that Adam and Eve, prior to the eating of the fruit, had different reactions to their body’s biology than man and woman have since then? It’s still very confusing, but I think I am at least starting grasp a more complete idea of where you’re coming from. Are you saying that original sin has essential changed how our minds perceive our biological inclinations?

Yes; you are getting much closer. The purpose of hormones is to make our bodies work sexually the way they do, and the purpose of pheromones and hormones is to make men and women be attracted to each other. It is a good thing. The problem is that the marital act is intended for marriage alone, and the world, having been tainted by sin, uses it improperly and has also managed to create all kinds of other perverted sex acts that are wholly contrary to the purpose of sex itself.

So yes, you are correct in saying that Original sin changed the way that humans respond to biological inclinations.

I’ll take your word for it, but you might be the exception that proves the rule. You have a fortitude stronger than most, and I admire you for it. But the fact remains that kids in puberty are more likely to masturbate than anyone else, and this is correlated to the biology of their bodies during that period of their lifetime. Haven’t you ever noticed a trend amongst the repentant? Wild and crazy (read:sinful) in their teen days, repentant and pious in their older days? Certainly biology comes into play somewhere. I’m just trying to make sense of it, perhaps I won’t be able too. God works in mysterious ways, after all.

Very true. Masturbation is common in boys who have been wholly uneducated as to the purpose of sexuality. It is quite sad. It really doesn’t take THAT much, though, to teach a child that it is wrong.

 

[TemplarKnight1]

Dude I often think about this myself sometimes. Better that God did not make us with any sexual desires only if we were just going to always beat up ourselves over it. As a young man, I find that the single hardest thing I have to suppress and defeat is my human sexuality.

Hang in there though…

 

[TimothyIgnatius]

Very true. Masturbation is common in boys who have been wholly uneducated as to the purpose of sexuality. It is quite sad. It really doesn’t take THAT much, though, to teach a child that it is wrong.

I’m not so convinced it can be avoided simply by education. Have you ever read The Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce? Sometimes, in spite of our greatest efforts (the most Catholic of efforts at that, if we are to learn anything from Joyce’s experience), we return to sin.

I think the reality may be that for some people certain sins will be unavoidable, but what matters is that they are eventually repentant and make a conscious effort to at least try and change.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

So it’s original sin that manages the hormonal balance of our brains? I can understand that Adam and Eve eating the fruit had an impact on our spiritual self, but I didn’t know their action affected our actual biology…

Yes I think one can say original sin affected our biology.
Our nature was “wounded” and we also lost the “preternatural gifts” that we possesssed in original innocence. Neither of the above (effects) are remedied by baptism. We await the resurrection of the dead.

I do not think homosexuality (as a genetically determined “condition”) would have been a reality in paradise - but I may be wrong. Hormonal storms (as in puberty) … is a hard one. Is it part of normal development (hence existed even in paradise) or a consequence of the fall when the soul lost its deeper influence over the body. I do not think there would have been births with genetic abonormalities in eden.

 

[dshix]

I’m not so convinced it can be avoided simply by education. Have you ever read The Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce? Sometimes, in spite of our greatest efforts (the most Catholic of efforts at that, if we are to learn anything from Joyce’s experience), we return to sin.

I think the reality may be that for some people certain sins will be unavoidable, but what matters is that they are eventually repentant and make a conscious effort to at least try and change.

I mean morally educated. However, even that does not always solve the problem

I daresay the culture isn’t helping the situation at all, either.