Did God make us genetically/biologically inclined to sin?

[Blue_Horizon]

I’m not so convinced it can be avoided simply by education. Have you ever read The Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce? Sometimes, in spite of our greatest efforts (the most Catholic of efforts at that, if we are to learn anything from Joyce’s experience), we return to sin.

I think the reality may be that for some people certain sins will be unavoidable, but what matters is that they are eventually repentant and make a conscious effort to at least try and change.

I agree Timothy. Its the politics of liberalism that perhaps over opitmistically believes the masses will do the right thing once they are “educated” and understand (eg throwing money at not smoking, anti-obseity advertising campaigns/programmes).

As you rightly point out, its not just the intellect that needs to be convinced but also the Will needs to be strengthened. When the immediate reward for disordered behaviour is great then its that much harder for good upbringing to work well.

 

[In_Spiration]

Neither Angel Nor Beast:

Blaise Pascal, Pensées #329:

Man is neither angel nor beast; and the misfortune is that he who would act the angel acts the beast.

The first half of the thought is unexceptionable: man is indeed neither angel nor beast, but, amphibious as he is between matter and spirit, a hybrid and a riddle to himself.

The second half of Pascal’s thought, however, is unfair to the beasts. No beast can act the beast the way a man can. No beast is bestial in the way a man can be bestial. The difference is that while the beast acts according to his nature, man freely degrades himself contrary to his nature. Having done so, he allows his freely indulged passions to suborn his intellect: he constructs elaborate rationalizations of his self-degradation.

It is not our animality that corrupts us but our free misuse of our animality, a misuse that derives from our spirtuality.

If a human had no rational soul or spirit, his promiscuity would be no more sinful than a dog’s.

 

[Christianus_Dei]

Yes, it affected us biologically. Women had pain in childbirth after the fall, something that had not happened before. We were different after we gave in to sin.

 

[aprilfloyd]

Adam and Eve ate the apple and there you go. We get the desire to sin passed on from them.

Adam and eve is a story not a literal truth

 

[guanophore]

So it’s original sin that manages the hormonal balance of our brains? I can understand that Adam and Eve eating the fruit had an impact on our spiritual self, but I didn’t know their action affected our actual biology…

More properly, our sexual desires, along with all other desires of the flesh, are to be “managed” by the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 2:11

Beloved, I urge you as aliens and exiles to abstain from the desires of the flesh that wage war against the soul.

Gal 5:16-18
Live by the Spirit, I say, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For what the flesh desires is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit desires is opposed to the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you want.

Sexual desires are given to us to fulfill God’s desire for our lives. There is nothing inherently sinful in them.

 

[Ignatius]

It seems that way sometimes, at least when it comes to sexuality. I mean, the Church uses the biology of humans in a way to defend it’s stances (i.e. sex is for procreation, God made sex pleasurable so people would make babies, etc) but seems to neglect the fact that the biology of humans also gives us an inclination to sin (hormones, pheromones, etc). So what I’m wondering is why God would make us genetically inclined to do things he wouldn’t want us to do?

Sin is a Spiritual disease, not a physical one. The consequences can be physical though.

 

[guanophore]

I think the reality may be that for some people certain sins will be unavoidable, but what matters is that they are eventually repentant and make a conscious effort to at least try and change.

Sin is ALWAYS avoidable. God did not create us for sin.

1 John 3:5-6
5 You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.

When we are in a state of grace we do not HAVE to walk by the desires of the flesh.

James 1:12-16
Blessed is anyone who endures temptation. Such a one has stood the test and will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. 13 No one, when tempted, should say, “I am being tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil and he himself tempts no one. 14 But one is tempted by one’s own desire, being lured and enticed by it; 15 then, when that desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and that sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death. 16 Do not be deceived, my beloved.

Jesus has set us free from the bondage of sin, and it is up to us to avoid the near occasions of sin, and to walk by the Spirit so that we do not become enslaved by the flesh.

 

[guanophore]

Adam and eve is a story not a literal truth

Such a position is not consistent with the Teaching of the Church.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Is what you’re suggesting is that original sin is not a state of spirituality but actually just a hormonal imbalance?

The way I see it, original sin is a state of spirituality, but it is also the cause of pain and death coming into the world. Everything that is out of kilter with what we would call an ideal world is the product of original sin, and I suppose you could say, all subsequent sin, as well. Everything we suffer each day is just a part of the consequences of sin. That’s good reason in itself why we should accept our sufferings as from God, and as our just deserts. So, I would say, absent original sin, we would have no hormonal imbalance.

 

[JamesCaruso]

He’s not ok with masturbation. Is puberty also a side-effect of original sin? Show me a 14 year old boy who hasn’t experimented with it, and I’ll show you a 14 year old male liar. Unless he doesn’t have arms, but then he’d probably just find a way to get creative…

Is the temptation really presented there by evil or the devil or just being selfish or because of original sin, or is it partly because of biology? If that’s so then why are those in puberty, who are dealing with raging hormones, seemingly more likely to fall into some sort of sexual sin?

If we are made in the image of God, isn’t God reflected in our biology? Did God alter our biology to make it harder for us after Adam and Eve made their mistake?

Human nature wants to justify sin! It’s doing what comes naturally! Enough already.

God didn’t alter anything. Man sinned, bringing whatever is wrong with the world on himself.

Mary was born without original sin and she managed to live her entire life without sin. She did not suffer the effects of concupiscence, although other effects of sin that had entered the world, both she and Jesus suffered, for example, death itself.

There is no justification for masturbation, although raging hormones is a mitigating factor. In all sin there can be mitigating factors, but not justification. Sin is objectively wrong. Our fallen nature makes it difficult to avoid sin. That is the good fight. Jesus’ advice is, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”

 

[JamesCaruso]

I’m not so convinced it can be avoided simply by education. Have you ever read The Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce? Sometimes, in spite of our greatest efforts (the most Catholic of efforts at that, if we are to learn anything from Joyce’s experience), we return to sin.

I think the reality may be that for some people certain sins will be unavoidable, but what matters is that they are eventually repentant and make a conscious effort to at least try and change.

Instead of focusing entirely on sins against chastity, look at it this way, to use your own words, I’m not sure sin in general, not specifically sins against chastity, can be avoided simply by education. None of us were born without concupiscence, so all of us have the innate tendency to sin. One person may have never sinned against chastity, but he likely has sinned by one of the countless other ways of sinning-- disobedience to parents or other authority figures, uncharitableness, cursing, omitting to do the things that God expects of each of us in terms of our prayer life and virtuous living each day, etc. ad infinitum. It’s true that no one has to sin, but show me one person, other than Our Lord or Our Lady who has not sinned.

 

[grannymh]

If we are made in the image of God, isn’t God reflected in our biology?

Question from Post 8: If we are made in the image of God, isn’t God reflected in our biology?

Counter Question: What parts of God’s image are blood and guts?

 

[aprilfloyd]

Adam and Eve ate the apple and there you go. We get the desire to sin passed on from them.

Adam and Eve , Is a Story - it’s allegorical. I can’t see how one could inherit sin.

 

[aprilfloyd]

Question from Post 8: If we are made in the image of God, isn’t God reflected in our biology?

Counter Question: What parts of God’s image are blood and guts?

Hi, grannymh,

I find that on this forum , you tend to get more questions, if you ask a question, rather than an answer or at least an attempt.

To answer your question from my perspective.

If we are the image of god, in the sense of ‘copy’ then we have His biology too. But I think if more depends what one means by ‘image’ and if you believe that you have been created by God or more specifically the Catholic God.

As regard the original question, if Catholic God made us then he made us to sin, as I assume we cannot act outwith his design

 

[fhansen]

Except this line of thought completely ignores everything I’ve asked, because it doesn’t take natural biology into account.

Yes, concupiscence does answer the question. Because the doctrine maintains that all of our natural appetites are good, but that we simply lack self-control because we’re divorced or separated from the “Controller”, so to speak. And this is said to be a disorder, an injustice, coming from the fact that man wants to control himself; we’re born with a preference to be our own boss, apart from God. Ironically, by asserting total self-control at the Fall, man lost control; we can’t have full integrity, we can’t be who we’re intended to be, without being in “partnership” with God- that’s what we’re here to learn- that’s the very purpose of the Atonement/New Covenant.

 

[preb34]

Adam and Eve , Is a Story - it’s allegorical. I can’t see how one could inherit sin.

IMHO, we didn’t inherit sin. We inherited a broken nature that is inclined to sin as a result of Adam and Eve’s sinfulness.

 

[grannymh]

Hi, grannymh,

I find that on this forum , you tend to get more questions, if you ask a question, rather than an answer or at least an attempt.

To answer your question from my perspective.

If we are the image of god, in the sense of ‘copy’ then we have His biology too. But I think if more depends what one means by ‘image’ and if you believe that you have been created by God or more specifically the Catholic God.

As regard the original question, if Catholic God made us then he made us to sin, as I assume we cannot act outwith his design

Then I need to ask – if we are in the image of God, was God the first being to sin?
My apology to God.

What people are obviously missing is a good description of God’s nature. No wonder there are crazy suppositions. People get hung up on image without a Catholic clue as to Who this being is. Next problem is that some people are clueless as to how to describe their own nature. No wonder there is a problem with image.

 

[grannymh]

Adam and Eve , Is a Story - it’s allegorical. I can’t see how one could inherit sin.

People choose “allegorical” because they have not learned Original Sin’s relationship with God.

Source: Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraphs 396-409. Additional information regarding human nature and the promise of a Messiah can be found in paragraphs 355-421 of this Catechism.

 

[grannymh]

IMHO, we didn’t inherit sin. We inherited a broken nature that is inclined to sin as a result of Adam and Eve’s sinfulness.

Recommended reading. Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition,
paragraphs 404-405.

 

[aprilfloyd]

IMHO, we didn’t inherit sin. We inherited a broken nature that is inclined to sin as a result of Adam and Eve’s sinfulness.

Not sure you can inherit your nature from a fictional story