Did HH Pope Francis Say This?

[didymus]

My take, fwiw: Anglicans in Africa and Latin America are far more orthodox than we Catholics in the US/Canada/Europe. Thus there is no reason for them to be attracted to reunion with Rome the way conservative Episcopalians in the US might be.

It’s unfortunate if Card. Bergoglio did say the Ordinariate was “unnecessary” but at the time he was trying to work with Argentine Anglicans against gay marriage.

 

[TarkanAttila]

Since he is now the Pope he will be able to either confirm or deny these statements at his leisure. I agree with pnewton…the sources are a bit sketchy. I’ll join all the others here in waiting to hear what he has to say.

:yup: That’s probably wisest.

 

[Tobias22]

As the OP, I suppose I should explain a few things:

A) I’m a former Episcopalian who has been a Roman Catholic for 24 years. I continue to follow Episcopalian/Anglican news because, well, it’s kind of like a train-wreck, it’s hard to look away (I read National Catholic Reporter, as well, on the theory that to be annoyed is to be alive).

B) Archbishop/Bishop/Primate Venables is far, far more orthodox than, let’s say, virtually the entire House of Bishops of the Episcopal Church, USA. His province, the Province of the Southern Cone, has provided primatial oversight and a home, if you will, for conservative/orthodox Episcopal dioceses and their bishops who have left the Episcopal Church USA under the Presiding “Bishop” Katherine Jefferts Schori and realigned themselves with the Province of the Southern Cone (some have done so, I believe, with various African bishops). This was the route taken by Episcopalians/Anglicans who did not wish to remained aligned with radically heretical bishops and national Church’s. Whatever differences he has with us, Venables is quite “conservative” on issues such as the ordination of women and homosexual marriage, etc.

Just thought I’d add that, for what it’s worth. I am certainly willing to give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt. It just seems odd that they would assert it so blithely if it didn’t happen.

The Anglican Communion site is now asserting this per a link at Fr. Z’s site. Maybe it happened, but it would have been in the context of South American Anglicans who are very orthodox. They have flying bishps don’t they?

Francis may have seen a stable orthodox community in Argentina that was fine where it was in it’s Christian walk. Unlike say the Episcopal church in the US. That adds needed context.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Francis may have seen a stable orthodox community in Argentina that was fine where it was in it’s Christian walk. Unlike say the Episcopal church in the US. That adds needed context.

I not certain of the extreme interpretation of Extra Ecclesiam Nola Salus (sp?) that one must die in strict and formal communion with the Roman Church, but these ecclesial communities are markedly deficient in terms of salvation and are not of themselves salvific. No community is “fine” in it’s Christian walk if it’s not walking with the one who sits in the seat of Peter and it’s the job of that one to call anyone outside the faith to that unity. The ordinariate was one way of doing that (and one made in the greatest love/caritas).

 

[bobbyhillisabro]

Don’t believe everything you read about him.

Our local news on the radio last night announced that Pope Francis is in favor of contraception.

LOL! Seriously? wow, when will people learn that The Church will never change

 

[Tobias22]

Don’t know about the contraception report. But the lack of need for the Ordinariate seems to be real. Episcopals at the church nearby are enthusiastic with the new Pope and expect him to stop the Ordinariate. His supposed comment has been reported in some Anglican sources. The Episcopals felt it was sheep stealing.

Personally I expect he will allow the Ordinariate to continue where it is, England, North America and Australia but he just might limit it to those areas. Is it even needed in S. America and African where Anglicans are very orthodox? Anglican African bishops have not expressed any interest in it…probably

 

[Lucky7]

Is it possible he was saying that instead of an Ordinate that these Anglicans should just become Catholic without the liturgical traditions of the Anglican church?

 

[Tobias22]

Is it possible he was saying that instead of an Ordinate that these Anglicans should just become Catholic without the liturgical traditions of the Anglican church?

That may be part of it.

The other issue is that so few Anglican have taken advantage of this - I believe it is around 2000 worldwide - that a separate structure and churches just doesn’t seem practical. Initial expectation were that 500,000 or more would come over but the TAC which was supposed to make up the majority of the 500,000 just backed out when the time finally came. Especially too given the Popes desire to give to the poor I think the idea of building/buying separate churches for very small groups of people is not something he will encourage.

Likewise I think stand-alone EF parishes will no longer be encouraged because of the costs for what usually amounts to small congregations.

 

[shelby_sun]

Agreed. It happens all the time with new pontiffs, especially in the days of 24 hour news cycles. Accusations from every angle, some looking to slander, some hoping they have a new ally for their cause. I trust that he was an exemplary Catholic man BEFORE he was chosen, and that the Holy Spirit will hone him even moreso into the man God wants for the Church now.

I

I find that many people believe in the Holy Spirit’s influence when the Church is going in the direction they want it to go. I am thrilled with this Pope because I work at a Jesuit school where the priests actually live right in the middle of the school, I see how they try to live the simple life Christ did, among the people, spreading God’s word. This is the first time for a Pope to be for The Society of Jesus, things will seem very different at time. Pope Benedict has his time now we must move forward. If the Holy Spirit was guiding it then, it is guiding it now, whether you agree with what happens or not.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Is it possible he was saying that instead of an Ordinate that these Anglicans should just become Catholic without the liturgical traditions of the Anglican church?

Now I had not thought of that…but that isn’t as generous of heart, then, as what was intended by Pope Benedict…AND the Anglican Use Mass already existed and was in use, back from the reign of Blessed John Paul II.

 

[Teelynn]

This is a quotation taken from the Episcopal News Service regarding a supposed conversation between HH Pope Francis while Archbishop of Buenos Aires and the Rt. Rev. Gregory Venables, Anglican Bishop of Argentina and former Anglican Primate of the Southern Cone:

"For instance, Venables said, the former cardinal told him over breakfast one morning that “the Ordinariate was quite unnecessary and that the church needs us as Anglicans.”

Here is the link: episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2013/03/14/prayers-and-proclamations-abound-for-pope-francis/

I find this disturbing. The Pope is the visible principle of unity in the Church. He is supposed to call people to that unity. I think the Pontiff Emeritus did a great job at that. I know each pope is different and I know they do things differently, but this seems a rebuke of what the old Holy Father did (and did very well, as a successor to the Great Fisherman). It seems (emphasis on “seems”) that everything the Holy Father has done is kind of a rebuke of Pope Benedict. And it’s great that he has such a heart for the poor, but the first and primary mission of the Church is the salvation of souls.

Agree with others that you cannot believe everything you read about him. Our media and especially our secular media (although some “Catholic” journalists are guilty as well) are total spin masters now. They sometimes don’t report the truth at all. They “infer” things, leave out important facts and sometimes outright lie.

I do agree with you however, that it is wonderful that he will emphasize helping the poor and marginalized as that is indeed the Church’s job, but the number one job of the Church is to help people get to heaven. In his homily this morning at daily Mass at my Parish, my Pastor emphasized that the Church’s number one mission is to take care of the poor. Hmm…I was bothered by that somewhat. In the mission statement of my Parish, it says we are to emphasize taking care of the poor, so I can understand where he was coming from,** but in all reality the number one job is to help people get to heaven…unless I’m missing something here.**

 

[Robert_Bay]

Hearsay taken out of context is hardly charitable and that seems the point of this thread

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