Did I rightly bar family members from Eucharist?

[Madaglan]

On Christmas day my mom, dad and my sister went to my grandparents’ house. Since it was Christmas, we decided to attend Christmas Mass. We haven’t been together as a family for several months. We haven’t gone to church together for years. My father is Latin Rite Catholic who attends Mass on a weekly basis. My sister was baptized and confirmed Cathoilc, but within the past few years she has professed personally to me that she no longer believes what the Catholic Church teaches. She still is Christian, but she now attends a Church that believes in “believers baptism,” “symbolic Eucharist” and other beliefs rooted in the anabaptist tradition. She no longer goes to sacramental confession. My mother was baptized Lutheran but became Catholic when she married my father. However, she no longer attends church except on occassion, and she openly criticizes the beliefs of the Catholic Church. She no longer attends Mass and doesn’t go to confession. I’m Latin Rite Catholic but am probably going to formally change rites within the next year or two (to Byzantine Rite)

Well, in any case, things were kinda tense even before we got into the Church. So, nobody was in the Christmas spirit. When the time to receive communion arrived, my father and mother got up to receive communion. My sister behind me also got up. While we were in line I turned back and politely told her that she probably should not receive communion at this time because, although she is Christian, she no longer professes the beliefs of the Church (and in fact professes the beliefs of a group that is in theological opposition to the Church). I also added that she should not because she hasn’t been to confession for years. I told her that by receiving the Eucharist she would in essence be tacitly assenting to those truths held by the Catholic community (which implicitly would include the Real Presence). My sister thanked me and happily sat back down in the pew.

After telling my sister this, I had to tell my mother in front of me. She was one or two people away from the priest, so I asked her, “Are you going to receive communion?” In asking this I projected my voice in such a way as to let her know that it may not be proper for her to receive communion. She was still visibly traumatized over some verbal things that happened in the car before Mass, and she simply said “yes” and then about a second later the priest gave her the Eucharist. I didn’t say anything after that.

Did I do right in how I told my sister that it would probably be best for her not to receive communion? I mean, she is Catholic by baptism within the past few years has fallen away, and although she is not anti-Catholic, she has openly told me that she doesn’t believe in certain Catholic truths.

With my mother, should I have done whatever possible to make sure that she and the priest realized the situation?

I tried to do everything right. I know that it is not ideal that people should receive the Eucharist if they have visibly walked away from the Catholic faith–at least until they are reconciled. Those who have never been Catholic should probably never receive the Eucharist except in special circumstances (such as with Orthodox). But was I right in making a presumption of belief, however seemingly obvious it was?

What should people say and do (especially during Christmas) to “ex-Catholics” when they stand in line to receive the Eucharist?

I know that there are perhaps thousands of people who receive the Eucharist during the Christmas season who shouldn’t by Church law. I imagine that unfortunately even non-Catholics may receive the Eucharist when it’s too busy to make sure that people are Catholic. So, it’s not a huge deal on a practical level, but I imagine on a spiritual level it’s a lot bigger.

Thank you everyone

 

[Elliott]

I think you did the right thing. Your sister shouldn’t have recieved. You warned your mom and thats all you can do. It’s on her not you.

 

[deb1]

Your sister sounds as though she wasn’t offended. The way you explained to her actually was very polite and sounded as though you were being considerate of her religious views.

 

[StephanieC]

Madaglan:

Did I do right in how I told my sister that it would probably be best for her not to receive communion?

How? Yes. Where? No.

With my mother, should I have done whatever possible to make sure that she and the priest realized the situation?

No.

But was I right in making a presumption of belief, however seemingly obvious it was?

No.

What should people say and do (especially during Christmas) to “ex-Catholics” when they stand in line to receive the Eucharist?

Not a thing.

Madaglan, if I remember correctly, you are a college student? Am I correct to assume that you are still dependent on your parents financially?

I suggest you take some time to study the Catechism of the Catholic Church as it pertains to the 4th Commandment.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a4.htm

You will, in all likelihood, protest that there are guidelines, and rules and consequences for proper reception of the holy Eucharist. I believe that this is the paragraph that addresses it in the CCC (emphasis added in color is mine):

1385 To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself**.”**218 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

It sounds like you beat everybody to the punch & examined everyone else’s conscience for them.

Do you have a spiritual director? I’d really suggest finding one & talking over some of this in the context of maturing into a young adult.

I hope that you are at least mature enough to go and apologize to your mother, who was “still visibly traumatized” (your words) and then, if she is open to further discussion, lovingly explaining your beliefs.

 

[tdandh26]

You did excellent. If a person receives the Eucharist unworthily he/she is in grave mortal sin. You have a responsibility to tell those who you know to be in that situation the truth, then even if they receive you cannot be held accountable for their action. We can take part in the sin of another if we do not tell them what they are doing is wrong. I wouldnt worry to much about the financial thing that someone mentioned, because the life we must strive for is beyond measure in comparison to this one. If you suffer in some way for a decision you have made defending the truth, then remember what the Truth Himself said in this regard.

 

[seabird3579]

Madaglan:

What should people say and do (especially during Christmas) to “ex-Catholics” when they stand in line to receive the Eucharist?

You did great, sweetheart, but just next time try to have the discussion at home or in the car instead of in the communion line. It’s nice to see that people love the Eucharist and their relatives enough to bother doing what you did.

God bless you and have a Joyous Christmas,
Brenda

 

[contemplative]

StephanieC:

It sounds like you beat everybody to the punch & examined everyone else’s conscience for them.

StephanieC has given some good advice. When walking up to receive Holy Communion we should be focusing on ourselves in relation to God and not others…even our family members.

Most of the time it is all we can do to be prepared even in the least little bit to receive Our Lord let alone worry about the person next to us.
Also…
Allow the priest to do his job. He is quite capable.

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Quoted by seabird3759:

You did great, sweetheart, but just next time try to have the discussion at home or in the car instead of in the communion line. It’s nice to see that people love the Eucharist and their relatives enough to bother doing what you did.

God bless you and have a Joyous Christmas,
Brenda

Yeah, having the conversation in the car might have been best.

I honestly did not expect them to get up for communion. It was unexpected and I didn’t know how to approach the issue diplomatically and yet true to God.

What’s interesting to know is that many evangelical churches have a quite different view than Catholics as to who can receive the Eucharist. In many evangelical communities the Eucharist is freely given to all, regardless of denomination. The Eucharist is seen as something which draws people together into a common faith. However, in Catholicism (as in Orthodoxy) communion is only given to those who profess the same faith as does the Church. Reception of the Eucharist is seen as the confirmation of a unity which already exists. Maybe my mother and sister, through no fault of their own, didn’t know this distinction.

Since it’s past Christmas where I’m at, have a Happy New Year!

 

[tdandh26]

contemplative:

StephanieC has given some good advice. When walking up to receive Holy Communion we should be focusing on ourselves in relation to God and not others…even our family members.

Most of the time it is all we can do to be prepared even in the least little bit to receive Our Lord let alone worry about the person next to us.
Also…
Allow the priest to do his job. He is quite capable.

I agree, but when the people who are sitting next to are family members who you know shouldn’t be receiving, then what? Let them receive and incur the penalty of mortal sin? Would you not be responsible then for the sin of neglect? I think she did right, when I have gone to mass with people I know to be in mortal sin, I dont ask because they know they cannot go. She may have thought up to that point that they would know enough not to go.

 

[StephanieC]

If reverence for Our Lord in the Eucharist is the supreme concern, then why did he stop when he did? Shouldn’t he have rushed up and tackled his mother, physically restraining her from receiving? Shouldn’t he asked his neighbors if they, too, were going to receive communion, and asked them if they were in a state of grace?

I’m being facetious, here.

Madaglan is an intelligent young man. It is highly likely that he has descended from an intelligent mother and an intelligent father, who have some familiarity with the Church’s teaching. His sister, who was baptized and confirmed Catholic (read: given some faith instruction), likely shares much of that beautiful DNA intelligence-wise.

My point is that when people know something is wrong and choose to do it anyway, the one who feels he is in a position to chastise them should choose the timing of that chastisement to effect the most change.
tdanddh26:

I wouldnt worry to much about the financial thing that someone mentioned, because the life we must strive for is beyond measure in comparison to this one.

I mentioned finances only because the link I provided to the CCC spoke of the duties of children, and the difference between emancipated minors and dependents. I agree; the life we strive for is beyond measure to this one, but this kid’s attitude with his parents is gonna earn him some major time in purgatory!

I guess I’m coming at this from a “Catholic Family Living Forum” viewpoint, instead of a strict “Apologetics/Moral Theology Forum” approach.

Madaglan:

I honestly did not expect them to get up for communion. It was unexpected and I didn’t know how to approach the issue diplomatically and yet true to God.

Okay, you were caught off-guard. It happens. You still have some major fence-mending to do with your family. Go, and do it well–knock them over with your demonstration of Catholic Christian familial compassion! And then slip in a dose of (humble) catechesis.

 

[StephanieC]

tdandh26:

I agree, but when the people who are sitting next to are family members who you know shouldn’t be receiving, then what? Let them receive and incur the penalty of mortal sin? Would you not be responsible then for the sin of neglect? I think she did right, when I have gone to mass with people I know to be in mortal sin, I dont ask because they know they cannot go. She may have thought up to that point that they would know enough not to go.

Madaglan is a “he”—read his old posts. There are lots!

So, again, by your reasoning (preventing the occurance of a mortal sin) he should have done more (body-slammed mom, or snatched the host away…), not less?

A mortal sin is a mortal sin. Is he then responsible for everyone who may have received unworthily around him that night?

Now knowing that she has received in what he has deemed an unworthy manner, should he not drag her forcibly to a confessional?

If he is commits a sin of neglect by not speaking up, then I guess he might want to go to confession.

(I know I’m on the Apologetics forum…might as well give it shot! )

Btw, I love that our Church has rules that we can use our faith and reason to sort through these kinds of things!

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Quoted by StephanieC:

So, again, by your reasoning (preventing the occurance of a mortal sin) he should have done more (body-slammed mom, or snatched the host away…), not less?

To tell you the truth, while the issue of mortal sin was present, I was more concerned with the communion aspect of the Eucharist and what it meant to partake in the Mystery. I was primarily concerned for my sister, since I wasn’t sure if she knew at the time what she was tacitly professing in receiving the Catholic Eucharist. I didn’t want her to profess something that she didn’t believe in. I made that mistake when I was eight, at which time I once attended a Lutheran service with my scout pack and partook in Lutheran communion–since one of the older church members there persuaded me that I could partake in it because “I was Christian.” Anyhow, after the Mass my sister thanked me for explaining to her the reception of Catholic communion.

Originally Quoted by StephanieC:

Now knowing that she has received in what he has deemed an unworthy manner, should he not drag her forcibly to a confessional?

Please understand that it wasn’t that I was critical of the manner in which they were receiving. If they were profligate sinners (which I don’t believe them to be) and yet were still Catholic in beliefs, I would not have said anything but would have let it go, trusting in the mercy of God and in their own accusations of conscience.

The core issue at the time was: *were my mother and sister still Catholic insofar that they canonically could receive communion? *At the time, I knew that Protestants could not receive Catholic communion, but I also knew that, once one is baptized Catholic, one is indelibly made a Catholic. Even if one leaves the Church for years, one can still come back after a simple confession. But, this said: can Catholics still receive communion when they become members of an evangelical church and profess the beliefs of those church, which are the opposite of those Catholic beliefs on the same subject? In asking myself these questions I was trying to do my little part in supporting the teachings of the Church, and therefore in supporting Church integrity, however minimal my impact.

Originally Quoted by StephanieC:

Btw, I love that our Church has rules that we can use our faith and reason to sort through these kinds of things!

Yes, I’d appreciate it if someone could please find me any rules or suggestions as to what lay Catholics should say to friends and family who attend with them to Mass. I guess what I’m trying to ask is: where does one draw the line in not speaking out? I mean, if one has a Catholic friend who regularly curses but is otherwise orthodox in belief and practice, then one would likely let God judge the person and would not interfere in their reception of the Eucharist. However, if one sees a Mormon friend attending Mass and attempting to receive the Eucharist, should one say anything to that friend? I’m not suggesting embarrassing the person, but only politiely informing the person of the Church’s rules.

The early Church used to be extremely strict as to who could enter into the Eucharistic Mystery. At one point (and still present in the Eastern liturgies) the priest would declare “The doors, the doors,” at which point all those not fully initiated into the Church could stay no longer and nobody could enter. In the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, there is a memorable line right before the reception of the Eucharist: “…I will not reveal Your Mysteries to your enemies.” (not to connect family with enemies but simply to show a point). Whether desired or not, there is a degree of exclusivity about the Eucharist. Normally, only those in full communion with the Church can receive it. Those who are no longer full members of the Church or who never have been full members cannot receive it.

So, in short, I’m simply trying to discover what the rules are as to individuals receiving the Eucharist when these individuals no longer claim themselves to be Catholic, even if they were once full members of the Catholic Church–and also some practical advise on how to aproach these individuals.

Thanks!

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Quoted by StephanieC:

Madaglan is an intelligent young man. It is highly likely that he has descended from an intelligent mother and an intelligent father, who have some familiarity with the Church’s teaching. His sister, who was baptized and confirmed Catholic (read: given some faith instruction), likely shares much of that beautiful DNA intelligence-wise.

I agree with you, except with your comments on my my sister. We think someone switched her at the hospital.

Thanks for your comments. Sorry if I wrote too much. Not trying to be confrontational; just trying to elucidate.

 

[Fergal]

You answered your own question when you said “My sister thanked me and happily sat back down in the pew.”

Leave your mothers actions in God’s hands.

 

[deb1]

Madaglan:

I agree with you, except with your comments on my my sister. We think someone switched her at the hospital.

Thanks for your comments. Sorry if I wrote too much. Not trying to be confrontational; just trying to elucidate.

Actually, your sister seemed very gracious. She thanked you and returned to her pew without a fuss. This showed maturity on her part and respect not only for her own beliefs but yours also. If someone switched her at birth then you certainly got a good deal. There are a lot of people who would have caused a scene at that moment from stubborness and spite.

 

[Breeze]

The last page of our misselettes has the “Guidelines for the Reception of Communion.” I have always felt it was beautifully worded and can graciously explain the guidelines much better than I. If you find yourself in Church with family or friends that you assume should not receive holy communion, just point the page out to them at the beginning. You will then know that you have done your best and the rest is up to them.

Just me,
breeze

 

[Celeste88]

My husband is not Catholic and he received the Eucharist on Christmas day. He knows he’s not supposed to receive the host, I showed him the guidelines in the misselette before but he went anyway. As he is not a Catholic he does not believe in the real presence so for him is was like receiving a wafer from a Protestant minister. (he’s Lutheran). I don’t want to start arguments with him but I don’t know what more I can do. I rely on him to drive me to church on sundays so I can’t just tell him to stay home and not go to church.

 

[seabird3579]

StephanieC:

If reverence for Our Lord in the Eucharist is the supreme concern, then why did he stop when he did? Shouldn’t he have rushed up and tackled his mother, physically restraining her from receiving? Shouldn’t he asked his neighbors if they, too, were going to receive communion, and asked them if they were in a state of grace?.

Not at all. Scripture and Catholic teaching tells us that we must “warn” our brothers and sisters when they are about to commit a grave sin, or are actually living a sinful lifestyle. This is strongly supported in the book of Ezekiel and the Catholic Catechism.

After they have been properly warned or cautioned, and then proceed to commit the sin anyway, the burden no longer belongs to anyone but themselves before God.

There are two kinds of sins, the sin of commission (to commit the act) and the sin of omission (the failure to warn someone of their wrongdoing). Both need to be confessed.

 

[seabird3579]

Celeste88:

My husband is not Catholic and he received the Eucharist on Christmas day. He knows he’s not supposed to receive the host, I showed him the guidelines in the misselette before but he went anyway. As he is not a Catholic he does not believe in the real presence so for him is was like receiving a wafer from a Protestant minister. (he’s Lutheran). I don’t want to start arguments with him but I don’t know what more I can do. I rely on him to drive me to church on sundays so I can’t just tell him to stay home and not go to church.

You have warned him, now the responsibility is his to a great degree. In the near future, you may want to have a private discussion with your parish priest to let him know your husband is not a Catholic. Then between the priest and what the Lord does to prick your husband’s conscience, that should settle the matter from your point of view. Have peace about it.

 

[migurl]

StephanieC:

How? Yes. Where? No.

No.

No.

Not a thing.

Madaglan, if I remember correctly, you are a college student? Am I correct to assume that you are still dependent on your parents financially?

I suggest you take some time to study the Catechism of the Catholic Church as it pertains to the 4th Commandment.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a4.htm

You will, in all likelihood, protest that there are guidelines, and rules and consequences for proper reception of the holy Eucharist. I believe that this is the paragraph that addresses it in the CCC (emphasis added in color is mine):

It sounds like you beat everybody to the punch & examined everyone else’s conscience for them.

Do you have a spiritual director? I’d really suggest finding one & talking over some of this in the context of maturing into a young adult.

I hope that you are at least mature enough to go and apologize to your mother, who was “still visibly traumatized” (your words) and then, if she is open to further discussion, lovingly explaining your beliefs.

One thing you missed, in the Bible it tells us that if we know of someone who is sinning that we must confront them. If they do not listen we must bring one or two witnesses to confront them. If they still do not listen get the Church involved.