Did Jesus abolish Jewish sacrifice ?

[mercygate]

There are certainly enough Jews willing and looking forward to continuing sacrifices. Some like me believe we are no longer obligated to continue sacrifices, even when the Temple is restored. What a lot of people don’t realize is that any time one wanted to eat meat, unless it was meat that they hunted, they had to bring the animal to be sacrificed. There was no concept of “butcher” in Leviticus and there’s an express prohibition against slaughtering animals anywhere than in front of the Tent of Meeting.

It seems to me that the ritual of sacrifice was meant to enforce the new revelation of monotheism/God. One God meant one place to offer sacrifices (factiod: the Hebrew word for place “Makor” is also one of God’s names). SInce we believe the TEmple will be rebuilt in Messianic times, a time in which the whole world will acknowledge and know God, the goal of sacrifices seems to be or will already have been achieved.

But I could be wrong.

Valke – I LOVE this stuff! Keep it coming! I was going to scurry around looking for a link to an article on the giant gold lampstand that the Temple-reconstructors have already made but I’m too lazy.

I have a friend – Orthodox Jew – who is extremely tentative about the revival of this Temple sacrifice stuff. She’s a Veterinarian.

 

[Valke2]

Valke – I LOVE this stuff! Keep it coming! I was going to scurry around looking for a link to an article on the giant gold lampstand that the Temple-reconstructors have already made but I’m too lazy.

I have a friend – Orthodox Jew – who is extremely tentative about the revival of this Temple sacrifice stuff. She’s a Veterinarian.

Well, if we agree that once sacrifices resume, anyone who wants to eat a hamburger has to bring the animal to the Temple, slaughter it there and have the priests cut it up, keep part and return the rest, your friend might be happier. THat’s a lot of work for a hamburger and likely to result in less eating of meat.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Wasn’t the Jewish sacrifice done in the Holy of Holies - the innermost part of Herod’s temple which was separated by a curtain/veil? And wasn’t the Jewish high priest the only person allowed there? This curtain/veil was a symbol of separation - sinful human beings can stand in the presence of God and live.

And wasn’t this curtain/veil miraculously destroyed during the crucifixion (see Matthew 27:50-52)?

If so, then I would answer “Yes, Jesus did abolish Jewish sacrifice”.

The symbol of separation was destroyed. The way to the presence of God is now open. Our sins that were separating us from God have now been covered with the blood of Christ (see Hebrews 4:14-16). We no longer need a human mediator. Christ has now become our mediator (see 1 Timothy 2:5). Jesus lives forever and he is interceding for us (see Hebrews 7:25). In all the world, there is no one else whom God has given who can save us (see Acts 4:12).

This is why St Paul wrote, “We have, then, my brothers, complete freedom to go into the Most Holy Place by means of the death of Jesus. He opened for us a new way, a living way, through the curtain - that is, through his own body” (see Hebrews 10:19-20).

 

[FaithofAbraham]

There are certainly enough Jews willing and looking forward to continuing sacrifices. Some like me believe we are no longer obligated to continue sacrifices, even when the Temple is restored.

Would you voice any disapproval if they did?

 

[dbacks5439]

There are certainly enough Jews willing and looking forward to continuing sacrifices. Some like me believe we are no longer obligated to continue sacrifices, even when the Temple is restored. What a lot of people don’t realize is that any time one wanted to eat meat, unless it was meat that they hunted, they had to bring the animal to be sacrificed. There was no concept of “butcher” in Leviticus and there’s an express prohibition against slaughtering animals anywhere than in front of the Tent of Meeting.

It seems to me that the ritual of sacrifice was meant to enforce the new revelation of monotheism/God. One God meant one place to offer sacrifices (factiod: the Hebrew word for place “Makor” is also one of God’s names). SInce we believe the TEmple will be rebuilt in Messianic times, a time in which the whole world will acknowledge and know God, the goal of sacrifices seems to be or will already have been achieved.

But I could be wrong.

An understanding of Catholic theology will tell you that Jesus’ eternal, pure sacrifice took place in one place, Calvary. Doesn’t matter when or where you celebrate the Mass, you are at Calvary. One place, one Sacrifice.

Thanks for the factoid, btw.

 

[Valke2]

Wasn’t the Jewish sacrifice done in the Holy of Holies - the innermost part of Herod’s temple which was separated by a curtain/veil? And wasn’t the Jewish high priest the only person allowed there? This curtain/veil was a symbol of separation - sinful human beings can stand in the presence of God and live.

And wasn’t this curtain/veil miraculously destroyed during the crucifixion (see Matthew 27:50-52)?

If so, then I would answer “Yes, Jesus did abolish Jewish sacrifice”.

The symbol of separation was destroyed. The way to the presence of God is now open. Our sins that were separating us from God have now been covered with the blood of Christ (see Hebrews 4:14-16). We no longer need a human mediator. Christ has now become our mediator (see 1 Timothy 2:5). Jesus lives forever and he is interceding for us (see Hebrews 7:25). In all the world, there is no one else whom God has given who can save us (see Acts 4:12).

This is why St Paul wrote, “We have, then, my brothers, complete freedom to go into the Most Holy Place by means of the death of Jesus. He opened for us a new way, a living way, through the curtain - that is, through his own body” (see Hebrews 10:19-20).

The altar were sacrifices were done in the Temple was not, I believe, in teh holy of holies. I believe they were done in front of the people.

 

[mercygate]

Wasn’t the Jewish sacrifice done in the Holy of Holies - the innermost part of Herod’s temple which was separated by a curtain/veil? And wasn’t the Jewish high priest the only person allowed there? This curtain/veil was a symbol of separation - sinful human beings can stand in the presence of God and live.

Nope. After the Ark was taken, NOTHING was in the Holy of Holies. The altars of sacrifice were outside the nave of the temple.

 

[Valke2]

Would you voice any disapproval if they did?

Haven’t given it a lot of thought.

 

[ralphinal]

You know, I’ve thought about this a lot since yesterday. I am not sure that it is fair ot say that Jesus actually abolished anything. He fulfilled, yes. He made unnecisary, yes. But he never actually abolished. Once he had died and rose again, there was no more need for it. If you take the fuller question, did he alter how we worship including holy days, again, I am not sure that he did. I have a feeling that had the first century Jews not kicked us out, we would not have different religious calenders.

 

[MH84]

Well, what I mean is : After God sacrificed Jesus, all other sacrifices - including animals, flowers, chanting, bread - are not accepted by Him any more.

And people keep sacrifiicng - to no avail. LIke in the mass. You have the altar - sacrificial tool. Tabernacle - place where sacrifice is kept. That is not accepted by God anymore.

This is copied and pasted from one of my earlier threads. This will hopefully shed some light on the matter for you.

What do understand from this passage:

1 Corinthians 10
16The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

What do you think the “one bread” is? It has to be Jesus. How could one loaf of bread feed a whole community of belivers? The one bread has to be Jesus, the one, perfect sacrifice.

What about Hebrews 10 :

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

www.biblegateway.com

Catholics believe this means that the one sacrifice of Jesus lasts forever. He continues to offer that sacifice to the Church. Jesus is the High Priest, and He continues to offer Himself, an offering surely pleasing to the Father.

 

[MH84]

Well, what I mean is : After God sacrificed Jesus, all other sacrifices - including animals, flowers, chanting, bread - are not accepted by Him any more.

And people keep sacrifiicng - to no avail. LIke in the mass. You have the altar - sacrificial tool. Tabernacle - place where sacrifice is kept. That is not accepted by God anymore.

This is copied and pasted from one of my earlier threads. This will hopefully shed some light on the matter for you.

What do understand from this passage:

1 Corinthians 10:
16The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

What do you think the “one bread” is? It has to be Jesus. How could one loaf of bread feed a whole community of belivers? The one bread has to be Jesus, the one, perfect sacrifice.

What about Hebrews 10 :

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

www.biblegateway.com

Catholics believe this means that the one sacrifice of Jesus lasts forever. He continues to offer that sacrifice to the Church. Jesus is the High Priest, and He continues to offer Himself, an offering surely pleasing to the Father.

 

[pauliztarza]

You had me for a second. I actually thought this was a legitimate question and not an attempt to try to refute Catholic beliefs.

FoA is correct that the system predates the temple. After the Temple was destroyed, the Jewish faith moved into the rabinical system that they have today.

Even if you do not accept the Real Presence as the Catholic Church teaches, please do not deny that Jesus HIMSELF told us to perform this sacrifice in memory of him. If you have an issue with the Lord’s Supper, please discuss it with Jesus.

As others have posted, Christians were origionally a sect of the Jewish Faith. Why would we not have a similar service?

True. Lord’s supper is in memory of Him. But the real sacrifice that saves me is the one on the cross.One sacrifice, made for ever.

Why would you not have similar service ?

Listen to this : like I affirmed your saying to recognize Jesus himself told us to have Lord’s supper, I want to tell you this simple truth. This truth is not connected to any tradition.It is simply the fact : priests perform sacrificial rite. They sacrifice bread and wine, believing it is Jesus Himself.

My friend, they sacrifice bread believing this bread is Jesus. Each mass. And, I just - it is dangerous to believe - that Jesus is something He is not. This mistake could have cost me eternity .
And I am sharing it with you.

And each time they sacrifice “him” they lock him up in a tabernacle !

So the point here is that merely humans pretend to sacrifice God’s Lamb !

Work that God has undertaken and performed it Himself - 100%.

I truly hope this is said in meek words, which is honestly my goal to communicate.

God’s bless.

 

[mercygate]

True. Lord’s supper is in memory of Him. But the real sacrifice that saves me is the one on the cross.
*If someone who is invincibly ignorant is saved, he is still saved by the power of Jesus Christ through the Church.

Why would you not have similar service ?*

Listen to this : like I affirmed your saying to recognize Jesus himself told us to have Lord’s supper, I want to tell you this simple truth. This truth is not connected to any tradition.It is simply the fact : priests perform sacrificial rite. They sacrifice bread and wine, believing it is Jesus Himself. We bring bread and wine to sacrifice. Jesus Christ is the one high priest who makes the offering at the hands of the

My friend, they sacrifice bread believing this bread is Jesus. Each mass. And, I just - it is dangerous to believe - that Jesus is something He is not. This mistake could have cost me eternity .
And I am sharing it with you.

And each time they sacrifice “him” they lock him up in a tabernacle !

So the point here is that merely humans pretend to sacrifice God’s Lamb !

Work that God has undertaken and performed it Himself - 100%.

I truly hope this is said in meek words, which is honestly my goal to communicate.

God’s bless.

Dear Heart,

Where did you get your information about the Catholic Mass?

 

[Yerusalyim]

And people keep sacrifiicng - to no avail. LIke in the mass. You have the altar - sacrificial tool. Tabernacle - place where sacrifice is kept. That is not accepted by God anymore.

The Sacrafice of the Mass is the one self same sacrafice the Christ wrought upon the cross at calvary. We do this because…JESUS SAID TO DO SO!

 

[pauliztarza]

Dear Heart,

Where did you get your information about the Catholic Mass?

In Roman Catholic seminary school which I attended for 6 months. I just didn’t understand why I was tempted and fell that many times during that period. And when I decided to find out, I simply realized there was something wrong in my relationship with God

 

[pauliztarza]

The Sacrafice of the Mass is the one self same sacrafice the Christ wrought upon the cross at calvary. We do this because…JESUS SAID TO DO SO!

Were you there or you have to believe some other authority than Jesus now ?

 

[mercygate]

In Roman Catholic seminary school which I attended for 6 months. I just didn’t understand why I was tempted and fell that many times during that period. And when I decided to find out, I simply realized there was something wrong in my relationship with God

May I suggest that a seminary school (were you a teenager?) attended for only six months might not have given you an accurate or adequate theological explanation of the Sacrifice of the Mass? Your understanding seems to be rather naive – as well it might be if one who ceased inquiring into the mysteries of the faith at such an age.

 

[mercygate]

Were you there or you have to believe some other authority than Jesus now ?

This seems rather hostile. Have you thoughtfully researched Catholic teaching on the Mass? You seem to think we believe things we do not believe.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Were you there or you have to believe some other authority than Jesus now ?

Both the Scriptures and the Church tell us this.

 

[pauliztarza]

May I suggest that a seminary school (were you a teenager?) attended for only six months might not have given you an accurate or adequate theological explanation of the Sacrifice of the Mass? Your understanding seems to be rather naive – as well it might be if one who ceased inquiring into the mysteries of the faith at such an age.

Well, if you consider PhD in missiology granted by the Gregoriana University of Rome naive, I am with you. These were the credentials of professor who taught the class. I was not teenager but college age.

Point made at class was that Jesus abolished blood sacrifice only, and the sacrifice made at the Roman Catholic altar now is without blood.

But that is simply not true. God sacrificed Jesus and after that, He does not accept any other sacrifice - blood or not blood.

If it was true -that God accept bread and wine sacrificed by the priest - then Jesus would have died in vain - and that is not true either.