Did Jesus die on the cross

[minkymurph]

You’re forgetting Luke.

I stand corrected - Matthew doesn’t say anything about Jesus childhood either. I wasn’t sure - hence the question mark, and I was too lazy to look it up last night.

Luke says much in relation to Jesus birth, but doesn’t tell us anything about Jesus life prior to his baptism by John (15 verses) - other than a brief reference to Nazareth and finding him in the Temple.

The reason proposed as to why Matthew and Luke tell us little of Jesus life is due to the fact it was his birth, baptism, the events of his life following his baptism, death and Resurrection that were significance to Matthew and Luke, not the events of his life between his birth and baptism.

As such, there is no biblical record of the events of Jesus life from his birth to his baptism, which is the point I was making. The point I was making is just because a particular event in Jesus life between his birth and baptism is not recorded in scripture does not mean it didn’t happen. It doesn’t mean it did happen, but it’s possible it may have.

 

[Jonni]

I would like to say thank you to you all for all your time you have put in to help me over come my problems. I feel much stronger even though I know I still have a long way to go.

I think i need some kind of plan to study the bible and other things to gain more faith. If anyone has any suggestions that would be great.

Hope I can be like you guys some day.

 

[po18guy]

I would like to say thank you to you all for all your time you have put in to help me over come my problems. I feel much stronger even though I know I still have a long way to go.

I think i need some kind of plan to study the bible and other things to gain more faith. If anyone has any suggestions that would be great.

Hope I can be like you guys some day.

Your dilemma has pointed out two things: the limitations of scripture by itself, and the absolute strength of the oral Apostolic tradition. Any error in oral teaching was rebuked and corrected immediately by the living authority of the Church. The Epistles are written evidence of this.

Without the authoritative Church, mankind is left guessing and arguing.

 

[CEM5]

I would like to say thank you to you all for all your time you have put in to help me over come my problems. I feel much stronger even though I know I still have a long way to go.

I think i need some kind of plan to study the bible and other things to gain more faith. If anyone has any suggestions that would be great.

Hope I can be like you guys some day.

Hi Jonni,

You are doing everything right so far – the greatest is that you have that sincere desire for your faith to grow. That is the best.

Keep reading Scripture - starting especially with reading all the Gospels, then work your way through as the Holy Spirit leads you. NUMBER ONE: Keep going to Mass every week and listen to the Scriptures and Homily each week. The Church covers most of the Bible every three cycle with Old Testament, Psalm readings (usually sung), New Testament and Gospel.

The Catholic Church is the Authority on understanding difficult passages. There are many resources to aid in that aspect.

Blessings of Christ,

CEM

 

[Jennifoo]

Blasphemous books, films, and the like have no place in a devout Catholic/Christian’s life. Period. If you play with fire you will get burned.

 

[katholikos12]

Well there is certainly a difference between looking to those things for instruction and looking through them from an apologetics stand point in order to defend the faith.

No place in our lives is rather extreme, but having a sure foundation in the truth is certainly important before going off to examine half-truths and distortions about the Church.

 

[_Abyssinia]

How are the post morten appearences of Jesus explained if he was not crucified? He was seen by many people, groups and single people saw Jesus, in different cirumstances and areas

The founder of the radical Jesus Seminar, Robert Funk, said the crucifixion of Jesus was ‘one indisputable fact’

Early Church would of never invented the crucifixion

Apart from the independent New Testament sources that refer to Jesus’ crucifixion, extra Biblical writers that wrote about Jesus’ crucifixion are

1. 
   *]Tertullian
   
   *]Jospehus
   
   *]Thallus
   
   *]Lucian
   
   *]Origen
   
   *]Julius Africanus
   
   *]Philipon
   
   *]Phlegon of Tralles
   
   *]Malelas
   
   *]Joannes Philoponus
   
   *]Eusebius
   
   *]Maximus

 

[_Abyssinia]

Jonni, what historians attest those claims?

How are appearences of Jesus after he died explained if he did not die? He was seen by many people, groups and single people saw Jesus, in different cirumstances and areas

The founder of the radical Jesus Seminar, Robert Funk, said the crucifixion of Jesus was ‘one indisputable fact’

Early Church would of never invented the crucifixion

Apart from the independent New Testament sources that refer to Jesus’ crucifixion, extra Biblical writers that wrote about Jesus’ crucifixion are

1. 
   *]Tertullian
   
   *]Jospehus
   
   *]Thallus
   
   *]Lucian
   
   *]Origen
   
   *]Julius Africanus
   
   *]Philipon
   
   *]Phlegon of Tralles
   
   *]Malelas
   
   *]Joannes Philoponus
   
   *]Eusebius
   
   *]Maximus

 

[Porknpie]

I would like to say thank you to you all for all your time you have put in to help me over come my problems. I feel much stronger even though I know I still have a long way to go.

I think i need some kind of plan to study the bible and other things to gain more faith. If anyone has any suggestions that would be great.

Hope I can be like you guys some day.

Jonni,

The Pope has called this year the “Year of Faith”. Here’s a couple of ideas to strengthen your faith a little at a time…day by day.

Read the catechism in a year (I’m doing this)

home.catholicweb.com/Harrisburg-Cursillo/files/Catechism_Study_Guide_and_Directions.pdf

Read the bible and the catechism in a year

chnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ReadtheBibleandCatechisminaYear.pdf

Listen to a summarized version of the catechism on audio cd by the US Bishops (I’m doing this during my commute to work…plan on listening to it multiple times)

usccbpublishing.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=1708

Lots of resources to strengthen your faith, these are only a few. Going to Mass and Reconciliation frequently as well as spending time at Eucharist Adoration are important ways of becoming closer to God for the graces that they bestow.

 

[bmonk]

The Romans were past masters at executing criminals.
If you’ll remember, a Roman soldier thrust a spear into Christ (this would have been a long angle, from beneath – think transection of the abdominal aorta, heart, lungs and other great vessels, not to mention multiple intestinal perforations) to guarantee He was, indeed, dead.
Crucifixion – even with oral narcotic – is not a survivable event.
A Roman soldier, professional at running a yard of sharpened steel into an opponent with terminal result, is not likely to have made a non-lethal thrust.
I am more than satisfied the Christ was indeed dead of multiple non-survivable conditions when dismounted from the cross.

Furthermore, if a criminal escaped from his legally imposed punishment–such as a condemned criminal not dying on the cross–the soldier involved was liable to take the criminal’s place. Hence the Roman soldier would have very good motivation to be utterly sure that Christ was dead.

Another fact: breathing while hanging on the cross is not automatic. The tension in the arms and shoulders means you must lift up on your feet to make each breath–to breathe out, if I remember correctly. It would be easy to watch the condemned for a few minutes to see if they rose to breathe. If they don’t breathe in, say, five or ten minutes–they are dead. Even if they were just faking death, or in a coma–after those few minutes they would no longer be faking it.

 

[bmonk]

Did you watch this on the Discovery or History Channels? They’re good as disseminating outright falsehoods about Christ and Christianity, especially around Christmas or Easter. They’re also fond of programs about the so-called “Banned from the Bible!!!” books.These are heretical writings which the Church has rejected. Don’t base your religious beliefs on what you see on the Discovery or History channels.

A few years back when the fuss was over the “Gospel of Judas” text that had been found, one theologian responded something like, “Back in the second century, Irenaeus examined this book along with many other similar writings. He discovered that it was trash. The church did not “lose” it but rejected it. It was trash then, and is still trash today.”