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bullfrog543
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if scripture is correct it sais jesus turned water into wine not grape juice
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St.Sebastian
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Until a man named T.B Welch, a dentist in Vineland, N.J. figured out how to preserve unfermented grape juice for his protestant communion services by applying the theory of Louis Pasteur to grape juice . . . and now you know the rest of the story . . . good day
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peary
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Originally Posted by **Linda Marie **
Yes, Jesus drank alcohol.
Nobody drank plain juice or water back then because it wasn’t safe. Everyone drank wine, but usually watered it so the alcoholic content was low. The alcohol in the wine killed all the nasty bugs in the water making it safe to drink.
So, you are telling us that the ancient Jews in the time of Jesus had microscopes and knew about the nasty bugs in the water? C’mon…
Yes, Jesus drank alcohol.
Nobody drank plain juice or water back then because it wasn’t safe. Everyone drank wine, but usually watered it so the alcoholic content was low. The alcohol in the wine killed all the nasty bugs in the water making it safe to drink.
So, you are telling us that the ancient Jews in the time of Jesus had microscopes and knew about the nasty bugs in the water? C’mon…
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NotWorthy
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No, but they knew that drinking stale water tended to make one sick, whereas running water didn’t. But in the cities such as Jerusalem, running water was hard to find. So wine was a great replacement for stale water.
Interesting fact related to this: That little 8 day circumcision rule? It seems that the human baby’s blood doesn’t begin to coagulate until after its been alive 7 days. Hmmmmmmm…
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Linda_Marie
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No, they didn’t have a clue about germs. But they did know that untreated water made them sick and if they added wine to it, it didn’t. They didn’t know why it worked, only that it did. We know it was because the alcohol killed the germs.
On a related note, to complete the symbolism of Jesus’s Blood and wine, in an archeological dig, an ancient winepress was found very near to the place of His Crucifixtion.
gardentomb.com/images/gardentour.swf
The wine press is pictured several pages into this online tour.
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redrosetea
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Fermentation is a natural process, there were no refrigerators in Christs time…the grape juice would ferment, grapes are a seasonal fruit, you couldn’t get fresh ones everyday back then
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patrick457
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IMHO the Garden Tomb (aka Gordon’s Calvary) is not really the ‘place of Jesus’ crucifixion’ (though it may give us a fairly good idea of how it may have looked like); personally I stick with the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, though that discussion is for another thread.
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patrick457
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Well, Paul did give Timothy a bit of an advice once:
Timothy has a bit of a stomach problem and Paul thus advises him to quit drinking water and start drinking a bit of wine as wine has historically been used as a digestive aid.
Ancient people would obviously know that someone would get sick if they drink unclean water (it’s all common sense); it’s not like the ancients were people who would stupidly drink contaminated liquids and not expect to be ill; just because they’re technologically ‘primitive’ doesn’t make them less smarter than modern humans.
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Ted_in_Charlott
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I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church in the deep South in the 1960s and converted to the Roman Catholic Church Easter 2006.
I heard all my life that Catholics were a bunch of drunks in addition to every other lie.
Their Protestent Theology is based on hate and prejudice and ridiculous concepts like Sola Scriptura (which actually should be rendered Selecta Scriptura). Come to a conclusion and then go find Bible verses to prove a point, even though it is out of step with the rest of the Bible. That’s what happens when you don’t have a teaching Magesterium. I am sure you can “prove” bananas are purple if you can go to one or two Bible verses.
Nan wrote a very well thought out point. Another fellow started to point out the “Best wine for last” and got distracted. I wanted to emphasize Jesus would not have turned the water into the best grape juice.
The whole “Lord’s Supper” at Southern Baptist Churches is a big fat joke. Anyone can “take”, it is not given, it is brought to you, you do not go and receive. It is grape juice, it is not wine, it is quarterly, it is not daily.
I am surprised they have not changed the Lord’s Prayer to give us our quarterly bread. But the SBC concept of the bread in the Lord’s Prayer is just food, while it is very clear from the context Jesus is talking about the Eucharist. Why emphasize a “Lord’s Supper” if it is just symbolic?
That gets back to my point. Jesus is the Best Wine. His perfect sacrifice of His Blood is the Best Wine saved for Last. Fruit of the VINE (Jesus) and work of human human hands (HIS CRUCIFIXTION) it becomes our spiritual drink.
Blessed be God forever.
I heard all my life that Catholics were a bunch of drunks in addition to every other lie.
Their Protestent Theology is based on hate and prejudice and ridiculous concepts like Sola Scriptura (which actually should be rendered Selecta Scriptura). Come to a conclusion and then go find Bible verses to prove a point, even though it is out of step with the rest of the Bible. That’s what happens when you don’t have a teaching Magesterium. I am sure you can “prove” bananas are purple if you can go to one or two Bible verses.
Nan wrote a very well thought out point. Another fellow started to point out the “Best wine for last” and got distracted. I wanted to emphasize Jesus would not have turned the water into the best grape juice.
The whole “Lord’s Supper” at Southern Baptist Churches is a big fat joke. Anyone can “take”, it is not given, it is brought to you, you do not go and receive. It is grape juice, it is not wine, it is quarterly, it is not daily.
I am surprised they have not changed the Lord’s Prayer to give us our quarterly bread. But the SBC concept of the bread in the Lord’s Prayer is just food, while it is very clear from the context Jesus is talking about the Eucharist. Why emphasize a “Lord’s Supper” if it is just symbolic?
That gets back to my point. Jesus is the Best Wine. His perfect sacrifice of His Blood is the Best Wine saved for Last. Fruit of the VINE (Jesus) and work of human human hands (HIS CRUCIFIXTION) it becomes our spiritual drink.
Blessed be God forever.
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Pier
Guest
Excellent posts…
Jesus also said, at the Last Supper, that He would not drink wine again until the reign of God.
Jesus also said, at the Last Supper, that He would not drink wine again until the reign of God.
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DLC
Guest
You will be hard pressed in the Bible to find any kind of distilled alcohol like we have today. What Jesus drank was our 2.5 -3 % alcohol. The Bible does not support the sin of drinking any alcohol over this amount.
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warriorofpeace
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can i see a reference why we should keep it at 3% alcohal should we live with the law of the land and except the appropriate law of the percentage on alcohal, cant you at least explain why any single church pastor or religious person on the planet would take a different view
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Nan_S
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I’ve done a computerized search of the bible and don’t find any reference to the specific percentage of alcohol in wine. I did find this:
2 Macc 15:39 It is harmful to drink wine alone, or, again, to drink water alone, while wine mixed with water is sweet and delicious and enhances one’s enjoyment.
When you say “2.5 to 3%”, perhaps you’re thinking of light beer? Ordinary fermented wine has an alcoholic content of 11.5% and sherry is typically 17.5%.
For Sabbath use, when the entire family including children drank the “Fruit of the Vine”, the Jews were required by sacred law to cut the wine with water to make it safe for the children to drink. A drink with only 2.5 to 3% alcohol would not be unsafe for children to drink. Some over-the-counter medications have that much.
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BigRay
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Up until prohibtion many protestant churches used wine - yes real wine, however a man by the name of Welch who’d just invented a proccess for making grape juice, also happened to be a higher up in the Methodist Church and soon convinced many that alcohol containg wine was wrong and there was a suitable substitue, Hence the methodists and many other protestant groups switched to the new grape juice. This was a story written in The Frugal Gourmet Cooks With Wine by Geoff Smith an ordained Methodist Minister.
Without being nasty about, it seems a good many well-meaning protestants have been decieved by some off-the-cuff theology that fit in with the morality of the time. Certainly no one is saying drunkardness is acceptable, but moderate consumption may actually be healthy
Ray
Without being nasty about, it seems a good many well-meaning protestants have been decieved by some off-the-cuff theology that fit in with the morality of the time. Certainly no one is saying drunkardness is acceptable, but moderate consumption may actually be healthy
Ray
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warriorofpeace
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can some one explain to me 6 billion people on the planet have to take the bread and wine of jesus more then once
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Spirithound
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Start a new thread and formulate a proper question.
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peary
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**Yeah, and look where it got Geoff Smith.
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Sideline
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This questions has already been answered 50 times now, but I’ve just got to ask why anyone would think that this is even an argument.
God can turn water into grape juice… but not wine? What is so special about alcohol that renders it miracle-resistant?
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NotWorthy
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I agree with Spirithound, but… can someone explain to me why, knowing that the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ (what some people mistakenly call, “the bread and wine”) is offered at every Mass, would only wish to receive only once?
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warriorofpeace
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well i say why because of a relationship with jesus that he died for my sins in my beliefe in eating the bread and wine of jesus in believing i have taken it i have no sins so i only need to live on faith belife and the gifts of god get multiplied many times for one beliefe of believing in jesuses scripture in the bible makes sence to me so i believe only once is necassary
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