Did Jesus ever quote any OT books that Protestants don't "believe in"?

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Someone I occasionally have light religious discussions/debates with was recently saying that of course everything Jesus says is inspired, and I was wondering whether he ever quoted from or referred to any books of the OT that protestants refuse as inspired, since that would pretty clearly contradict their own position. Thanks!
 
Someone I occasionally have light religious discussions/debates with was recently saying that of course everything Jesus says is inspired, and I was wondering whether he ever quoted from or referred to any books of the OT that protestants refuse as inspired, since that would pretty clearly contradict their own position. Thanks!
Why would that contradict their position? Paul quoted Greek philosophers, yet no one considers their works as canonical.
 
Does it not? Maybe I’m looking at it wrong then… I was thinking that if Jesus referred to a writing specifically (as in agreement with it), wouldn’t it be odd to dismiss it? I may be wrong, which is why I asked…
 
Does it not? Maybe I’m looking at it wrong then… I was thinking that if Jesus referred to a writing specifically (as in agreement with it), wouldn’t it be odd to dismiss it? I may be wrong, which is why I asked…
I can’t think of any quotes from Jesus that should be examined like this off the top of my head. Paul, yes. In Acts and elsewhere.

Here’s Titus 1: 12
One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”
Paul is quoting Epimenides of Gnossus and calling him a prophet. Was he therefore an Old Testament prophet? No. And this is in Scripture, so, yes, it is inspired (how we are to interpret it is another matter). That does not mean the source was inspired.

So I don’t think you could use a quote from Jesus in itself to show a Protestant is in contradiction.
 
I read the article and looked at the list.

This is complicated by way the NT writers used the LXX. I don’t know about the Hebrew. Sometimes they quoted exactly. Sometimes they paraphrased. Sometimes they probably translated the Hebrew into Greek as they wrote, or used other translations than the LXX. There are also a lot of statements that are similar to each other, and passages that are quotes of other passages. You see this with Chronicles and Kings and Isaiah. And it may well be that a phrase is the same in the LXX and the NT, but it is a short phrase, or, again, used in a manner that does not indicate the source should be used authoritatively.
 
Would you agree the same logic works in reverse, then, that whether or not a New Testament author referenced an Old Testament book is not a litmus test for whether an Old Testament book is scriptural?
 
Would you agree the same logic works in reverse, then, that whether or not a New Testament author referenced an Old Testament book is not a litmus test for whether an Old Testament book is scriptural?
Sounds reasonable. I’m not recalling if Esther is ever referenced. Off the top of my head I’m thinking one of the minor prophets doesn’t make a showing. Not completely sure, and I don’t have time right now to go digging.

You got me curious.
Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. This does not mean they are not inspired.
according to http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-old-testament-quoted-by-jesus-and-apostles.htm
And I just pulled that info off the website, so, um, that does not mean I agree with the rest of the website. Kind of like in parallel to this thread, in a very minor way.
 
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Sounds reasonable, then. And using your post to address the TC’s concern, if someone does argue that all books must pass such a litmus test, in addition to providing a list such as was provided above, it might also be convincing (as far as demonstrating that the accuser’s argument doesn’t prove what he thinks it does) to show that some books the accuser considers canonical are not referenced in the New Testament, if you can confirm it.
 
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As for confirming that no verse of a given OT book appears nowhere in any NT book, from LXX, Greek paraphrase, Hebrew literal translation or Hebrew translation or Hebrew=>Aramaic=> Greek literal translation or paraphrase, the legwork would be, to say the least, time consuming.
 
Not directly, but some of them are really obvious Judaic principles such as:

Tobit 4:15 - Golden rule anyone?

Sirach 27:6 - you will know them by their fruit, etc.

There are others there if you dig
 
It also goes without saying that the concept of a single, fixed Jewish canon is a dubious one. Their approach is substantially more nuanced than “in or out” as it pertains to an individual text. More graded and categorized.

This reality doesn’t interface well with most evangelical paradigms on scripture, from personal experience in my younger days around seminary.
 
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Someone I occasionally have light religious discussions/debates with was recently saying that of course everything Jesus says is inspired, and I was wondering whether he ever quoted from or referred to any books of the OT that protestants refuse as inspired, since that would pretty clearly contradict their own position. Thanks!
There is another whole issue here, and that is that there is variation in how different Protestants regard the deuterocanonicals, if that is the correct term. The Orthodox have additional books, and then the Ethiopian Orthodox have more. Some regard the books to be wholly non-canonical, like any other books (here you have the Reformed) and so the books are not included in their Bibles. The Anglicans and Lutherans treat them differently; I am not sure how, nor do know the Methodist approach to this.

More precisely, we believe the books exist and they are informative as to attitudes, grammar, etc., but are not canon.
So, yeah, the books exist. I’m given to understand that 4 Maccabees has some factual errors. That book is in the Orthodox canon but not in the Catholic one.

Canonicity is messy.
 
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SojournerOnEarth:
Canonicity is messy.
Only for the learned 👍

Peace!!!
I will take that as a compliment! 😄

And it was witty. Obviously you are aware of some of the complexities.
 
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adf417:
40.png
SojournerOnEarth:
Canonicity is messy.
Only for the learned 👍

Peace!!!
I will take that as a compliment! 😄

And it was witty. Obviously you are aware of some of the complexities.
Yes i am and im also aware that there are scores of people in the world like me that will never have the intelegenct to figure it out and therefore must rely on someone to tell them what the canon is. Thanks be to God!

Peae!!!
 
Does it not? Maybe I’m looking at it wrong then… I was thinking that if Jesus referred to a writing specifically (as in agreement with it), wouldn’t it be odd to dismiss it? I may be wrong, which is why I asked…
No. I think you’re looking at it right. That’s the same logic that Protestants and Catholics use to determine if, for example, the story of Jonah is true and inspired. Otherwise, it sounds like a fantastic story. Yet Jesus treated it like fact.

Let’s see.

Matthew 6:12, 14-15—“Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors; if you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your heavenly father forgive your transgressions.”

Sirach 28:2—“Forgive your neighbor’s injustice; then when you pray, your own sins will be forgiven.”

John 5:18—“For this reason the Jews tried all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the Sabbath, but he also called God his own Father, making himself equal to God.”

Wisdom 2:16—“He judges us debased; he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure. He calls blest the destiny of the just and boasts that God is his Father.”

John 10:29—“My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can take them out of the Father’s hand.”

Wisdom 3:1—“But the souls of the just are in the hand of God, and no torment shall touch them.”

But they’re not exact quotes, so…what do you think? Will your friend accept them?
 
Someone I occasionally have light religious discussions/debates with was recently saying that of course everything Jesus says is inspired, and I was wondering whether he ever quoted from or referred to any books of the OT that protestants refuse as inspired, since that would pretty clearly contradict their own position. Thanks!
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Since Protestants have rejected the Church as an infallible voice they have no choice but to offer arguments of man to attest to the Canon of the Bible.

The Protestant’s reasons for his list of Books that belong in the New Testament is merely human opinion and conjecture. Showing that THEIR arguments are self-contradictory to their position is a good idea.

Two replies above suggested above go to a list by J. Akin of possible quotes in the New Testament of Deuterocanonical Books.

Strategically, I disagree with giving the long list of allusions that includes themes that are also found in the Protestant Canon of Books. Many of those allusions it could be, and will be, legitimately argued are allusions to older Old Testament books. If you get a Protestant to take you seriously, a hard thing to do, and he starts to research your claim and finds all these weak arguments seeing how these allusions are equally applicable to those older Old Testament books he is liable to dismiss the whole list. He will reason, why should he waste his time on hard time consuming research when at least some allusions cannot be proven to be to the Deuterocanonical books since those ideas are previously stated in the older Old Testament books that he does accept. I prefer the short list of allusions that can only be referring back to the Deuterocanonical Books . This list is at the web site below. While this list does not prove canonicity by Catholic standards, it does show a contradiction of the arguments often employed by many Protestants.

And a stronger argument against the Protestant position is to show the prophetic nature of the Deuterocanonical Books. See


Also, show your Protestant friend the before Martin Luther the Bibles included the Deuterocanonical Books.

http://www.defendingthebride.com/bb/judith.html

http://www.defendingthebride.com/bb/manuscripts.html#deut

Read more at

Bible Canon is Catholic

http://www.defendingthebride.com/bb/deuterocanonical.html

Where We Got the Bible by Rev. Graham

http://www.defendingthebride.com/bb/manuscripts2.html#Graham

Do NOT be misled into thinking this subject is just for the “experts.”
This is the Strongest argument against Protestantism.
The links above will give you plenty of good arguments to proclaim the most basic truth of the most important question,
“What is the Bible?”

If I have time I can send more information.

God bless,
John
 
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