Did Jesus had a human Y-chromosome?

[Gorgias]

Yep. I think we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree.

Yep. Aquinas says many things. In fact, in just the second question following this one, he states, “The male sex is more noble than the female, and for this reason [Jesus] took human nature in the male sex.” I’m guessing you’re not going to presume that this is reasonable, let alone Catholic teaching, just based on it appearing in the Summa.

So, if you want to hang your notion on a non-doctrinal 13th-century Scriptural interpretation and a theologian’s “meh… it must be true” (even given that it’s quite the august pair of shoulders that are doing the shrugging!), then have at it!

 

[James248]

Yep. Aquinas says many things. In fact, in just the second question following this one, he states, “The male sex is more noble than the female, and for this reason [Jesus] took human nature in the male sex.” I’m guessing you’re not going to presume that this is reasonable, let alone Catholic teaching, just based on it appearing in the Summa.

So, if you want to hang your notion on a non-doctrinal 13th-century Scriptural interpretation and a theologian’s “meh… it must be true” (even given that it’s quite the august pair of shoulders that are doing the shrugging!), then have at it!

Are you being sarcastic?

 

[Gorgias]

Are you being sarcastic?

Umm… no.

Doctrine of the Church is declared by the Magisterium. Those who are declared “Doctors of the Church” are given that title because of their contribution to the understanding of theology that leads the Magisterium to its teachings. However, the mere fact that someone is named a “Doctor of the Church” does not imply that every word out of their mouths must be considered true and doctrinally sound.

After all, Aquinas had his notions about the philosophy of reproduction, and Augustine his “massa damnata”. We recognize that these aren’t the teaching of the Church, and in doing so, we recognize that we find Church teaching from those who have the authority to pronounce such teaching.

No sarcasm there… just keeping it real.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

God tells us that he is our Father. He uses the analogy of Father to describe our relationship to him.

The ancients did not know of DNA and instead thought that the male simply put his seed into a women, who later gave birth. So their understanding of Fatherhood was that all people came from their Fathers only. That is why they traced the paternal lineage only. They did not know of female ovum, and that each person was in fact physically a combination of the Mother and Father. Since the ancients could not see female ovum but could see male sperm, that is what they thought was happening. People, they thought came from their Father’s only and were past down from Father to Father etc.

To the ancients then, if a virgin gave birth, then where did it come from? Without a father, there was no source of life as they understood it. So the virgin birth was miraculous to them since no Father placed his seed in her. There was no concept of female DNA and Y or X chromosomes for them. But your question would have been the same in ancient times as it is now.

They simply did not know that the female contributed (that missed that part) but they new that the male did. So they had half the picture right.

But your question is the same to them as it is to us. Where did Jesus get his ‘seed’, or from our point of view, where did he get his male portion of his embryo needed to make a person.

So the question is exactly the same as what they had to contemplate in ancient times, even though they did not have the biology.

The answer was revealed to them that the Holy Spirit was the Father. To them it means that he supplied the whole seed. For us it means he supplied half the seed.

This means that the Holy Spirit provided the material needed for Jesus to be born.

This means that the Holy Spirit was Jesus’ biological Father.

This was necessary since human fathers all had a lineage that included original sin. In order for Jesus to have genetic material that was not corrupted (what we know call genetic inheritance) Jesus needed a source of maternal DNA that was sinless (immaculate conception of Mary) but since there was no immaculate males, he needed an infusion of DNA from outside the human race. Any human source of paternal DNA would have been stained by original sin.

This only makes sense from a modern perspective where we know of both female and male DNA. God knew that, but we have to interpret the bible as being written by people who did not yet understand the biology involved.

I don’t disagree with your conclusion but Scholastic “Conceptuology” was somewhat more subtle than “male seed meets fertile soil” model.

The semen was not really considered a “seed” at all. It did not materially enter into formation of the conceptus. And the woman was more than just a nest or fertile soil. While the idea on an egg was not considered the woman did contribute inchoate matter to the formation of the foetus.

The semen was in fact a sort of “architect” force that remotely and actively formed the passive protoplasm of the female.

So the conclusion is the same with Christ as you say, the male decides completely how the foetus is constructed. With this model it was much easier for ancients to understand the action of the Holy Spirit on Mary because the involvement of the male was always “remote” and “spiritual” by the vital invisible shaping force of the semen which did not materially contribute.

 

[NM505StKate]

The question is did Yeshua have a human Y-chromosome. Well if the story is believed then no Yeshua could not because Mary was a virgin. In order for a human to have the chromosomes humans have to be involved. Being realistic we should recognize that Mary had to have sex in order to conceive a child. If Yosef was the father we may never know.

 

[phil19034]

The question is did Yeshua have a human Y-chromosome. Well if the story is believed then no Yeshua could not because Mary was a virgin. In order for a human to have the chromosomes humans have to be involved. Being realistic we should recognize that Mary had to have sex in order to conceive a child. If Yosef was the father we may never know.

Did anyone listen to radio interview I posted on page 1?

Scientists have studied the Eucharistic Miracles and determined that they are human heart tissue from a living man who was severely beaten. And they determined that the human heart tissue had NO DNA markers.

Therefore, based on this evidence, it’s reasonable to assume that Jesus did not have DNA and/or a Y Chromosome.

Fascinating stuff

 

[NM505StKate]

But Mary was…

We have no proof if she was and besides it is a patriarchal society, her lineage means squat.

 

[NM505StKate]

Did anyone listen to radio interview I posted on page 1?

Scientists have studied the Eucharistic Miracles and determined that they are human heart tissue from a living man who was severely beaten. And they determined that the human heart tissue had NO DNA markers.

Therefore, based on this evidence, it’s reasonable to assume that Jesus did not have DNA and/or a Y Chromosome.

Fascinating stuff

I am highly doubtful of the study. Doing a Google search I find nothing of such a study.

 

[phil19034]

I am highly doubtful of the study. Doing a Google search I find nothing of such a study.

The Church hires atheists to run those tests, without knowledge of what they are testing.

Here is one of them

churchpop.com/2015/06/28/5-extraordinary-eucharistic-miracles-with-pictures/

Miracle number 1 above

Also, here are 5 from the last 25 years. These are listed on the website of the Diocese of Westminster in England.

dowym.com/voices/5-incredible-eucharistic-miracles-from-the-last-25-years/

God Bless

 

[LilyM]

The question is did Yeshua have a human Y-chromosome. Well if the story is believed then no Yeshua could not because Mary was a virgin. In order for a human to have the chromosomes humans have to be involved. Being realistic we should recognize that Mary had to have sex in order to conceive a child. If Yosef was the father we may never know.

If ALL the stories of the Bible are to be believed, then Adam certainly had a Y chromosome, despite not having a human father. The inference being the chromosome (along with the rest of the body) was created by God the Father, rather than Adam obtaining it from a human father in the usual way.

So why not Yeshua?

 

[phil19034]

We have no proof if she was and besides it is a patriarchal society, her lineage means squat.

Not to God.

 

[NM505StKate]

Not to God.

I will say this. There is no evidence as to her lineage. Only the male counts and, if the story is to be believed, Yeshua was not conceived by way of sex he isn’t of the David family line.

 

[NM505StKate]

The Church hires atheists to run those tests, without knowledge of what they are testing.

Here is one of them

churchpop.com/2015/06/28/5-extraordinary-eucharistic-miracles-with-pictures/

Miracle number 1 above

Also, here are 5 from the last 25 years. These are listed on the website of the Diocese of Westminster in England.

dowym.com/voices/5-incredible-eucharistic-miracles-from-the-last-25-years/

God Bless

Okay neither of those sites say anything about “hiring atheists”. I am highly skeptical of these claims.

 

[phil19034]

I will say this. There is no evidence as to her lineage. Only the male counts and, if the story is to be believed, Yeshua was not conceived by way of sex he isn’t of the David family line.

Yes he is.

In ancient Jewish law, the lineage didn’t solely follow blood. It followed the line of legal heirs. (There are examples of this in the Old Testament which I learned from Father Michael Gaitley, MIC. However, I would have to look them up again to find the Old Testament example.)

While many of today’s rabbis will say that Jesus was not a legal heir to David, that’s based on the Jews’ incomplete understanding of who and what the Messiah is. Also, remember that they were expecting a HUMAN king. Not the King of Kings. Jesus’ claim to be the Son of David and heir to the Kingdom is 100% dependent on Christ being Divine and he’s talking about the Kingdom of God, not a mere earthly kingdom. Christ even says to Pilate:

*So Pilate went back into the praetorium and summoned Jesus and said to him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” 34 Jesus answered, “Do you say this on your own or have others told you about me?” 35 Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests handed you over to me. What have you done?” 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom did belong to this world, my attendants [would] be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not here.” 37 So Pilate said to him, “Then you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say I am a king.[a] For this I was born and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.” *

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+18%3A33-38&version=NABRE

St. Joseph was legally the adoptive father of Jesus, and husband of Mary. Though her betrothal to St. Joseph, The Blessed Virgin Mary became a member of the House of David before Jesus was conceived. Therefore, Jesus was St. Joseph’s legal heir to everything. Not just money and property, but also to St. Joseph’s claim to the House of David.

For God, that’s all that mattered. For some of the Jews (and today’s Jews) - it wasn’t good enough. But there were still MANY Jews who did believe and became the first Christians. Furthermore, we should all know by know that prophecy is not specific or always interpreted correctly. The Christian claim is that Jesus Christ fulfills the prophecies of Isaiah. Today’s, rabbinical still Jews disagree after almost 2000 years without a Temple.

Here is what the International Marian Research Institute at the University of Dayton says on the subject of Mary being a decendant to David: udayton.edu/imri/mary/d/david-mary-as-descendant-of.php

God Bless.

Back to the Y-Chromosome question: honestly, it doesn’t matter one way or another. My belief is that Jesus lacked all DNA because he existed before time with The Father (which is backed by some studies on Eucharistic Miracles). However, it’s also possible that The Holy Spirit also could have given Him a Y Chromosome.

Unless we find more concrete proof from Eucharistic Miracles, this is a question the OP will simply need to ask Jesus when the OP sees our Lord.

 

[phil19034]

Okay neither of those ***sites say anything about “hiring atheists”. *** I am highly skeptical of these claims.

The radio show does, as have two priests who have spoken about this in Homilies at Masses I have been too.

 

[jimkhong]

From where did Adam get his Y-chromosome? Yeah…

And from where did Eve get her X-chromosome? Being of asexual origins, was she a clone of Adam? If so, was she a clone in all but the Y-chromosome? If a clone, did it mean that Adam had conjugal relationships with a genetic copy of himself? Was the DNA damage from being an offspring of two closely related genes that led to Cain’s emotional imbalance in his killing of his brother?

Did Adam have a belly button?

Who did Cain marry?

…

 

[eddie_too]

Jesus is truly God and truly man.

that is what we know for sure. everything else is speculation. interesting to some, obviously, but speculation nevertheless.

 

[catholic1seeks]

This was necessary since human fathers all had a lineage that included original sin. In order for Jesus to have genetic material that was not corrupted (what we know call genetic inheritance) Jesus needed a source of maternal DNA that was sinless (immaculate conception of Mary) but since there was no immaculate males, he needed an infusion of DNA from outside the human race. Any human source of paternal DNA would have been stained by original sin.

This only makes sense from a modern perspective where we know of both female and male DNA. God knew that, but we have to interpret the bible as being written by people who did not yet understand the biology involved.

It was not necessary for Mary – or a hypothetical human father – to be immaculate. It was fitting, but not necessary.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Adam came from dust, where were the x and y? Eve came from Adams side, Why didn’t she have a Y instead of two x’s?

As someone stated earlier, Nothing is impossible with God.

You can even follow that same logic from an evolutionary standpoint, if we came from single celled organisms (asexual reproduction) as proposed, from the primordial soup where did the extra chromosomes come from?..you get the idea.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

Just remember a Catholic does not have to literally believe the first man came from dust. The evolution of the body from biological organisms is perfectly okay in Catholic teaching, as long as we assert that the soul did not evolve from matter.

So in this case, Adam (and Eve) would have had biological “fathers” and “mothers”.

 

[catholic1seeks]

The question is did Yeshua have a human Y-chromosome. Well if the story is believed then no Yeshua could not because Mary was a virgin. In order for a human to have the chromosomes humans have to be involved. Being realistic we should recognize that Mary had to have sex in order to conceive a child. If Yosef was the father we may never know.

Christianity and the gospel accounts presume the existence of God.

If God does exist, then he could very well supply the needed biological material for Jesus, and the virgin birth is possible.

In the same way God created the Universe at will, from nothing.

You may not believe in God, but the way you are talking sounds as if we have to assume that’s the case.