Did Jesus have a fallen human nature?

  • Thread starter Thread starter tomo_pomo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tomo_pomo

Guest
This is what I understand so far:
Original sin is cause of our fallen human nature. Because of that we are inclined to sin.

So if Jesus was true human did he also acquire our fallen nature? If he didn’t why was he tempted if temptation implies inclination to sin. If He wasn’t inclined to sin how He could then participate in our human nature without such an important aspect of our nature?
 
tomo_pomo said:
So if Jesus was true human did he also acquire our fallen nature?
Click to expand...
No. By a singular grace, Mary was preserved free from original sin. Jesus has both a human and a divine nature, but was also free from original sin.
tomo_pomo said:
If he didn’t why was he tempted if temptation implies inclination to sin.
Click to expand...
Adam and Eve were created in original holiness, free from original sin, and they were tempted. And they sin.

Original sin is not necessary for temptation.
 
My understand is that Jesus was exactly as us in terms of human nature, except for sin. He did not have original sin, and never committed a sin throughout His life on earth.

He lived the most holy and perfect life any human person could aspire to. He was tempted I believe to help us realize that temptation is not impossible to overcome even in our weaken state due to original sin.

Many saints also prove the above point, even though all of them were sinners and some even committed mortal sin they eventually with the help of God achieved holiness. So it is clearly not an impossible task.
 
Last edited:
If original sin is not necessary for temptation, what causes the temptation?
 
Temptation is an external influence - in our Lord’s case, foisted upon Him by the devil. It was the devil’s pride and arrogance which lead to the temptation. BTW, the devil, as briliiant and superior in intellect to us as he is, does not know everything. He had to ask Jesus if He was “Son of God”, for but one example.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
If original sin is not necessary for temptation, what causes the temptation?
Click to expand...
In people immaculately conceived (Adam, Eve, and Mary—see ongoing topic) it’s caused by the devil and the demons, as shown in how Eve fell. For the rest of us we have that AND how original sin and our actual sins turn us inward.
 
Last edited:
So does that mean that Jesus had holy human nature as was originally created? So in that sense he was the new Adam?

Does that also mean that his body was glorified body like we will have when arise again? Is that why he was a perfect sacrifice and when taking communion we not only participate in his divinity, but also in holy humanity?
 
tomo_pomo said:
So does that mean that Jesus had holy human nature as was originally created? So in that sense he was the new Adam?

Does that also mean that his body was glorified body like we will have when arise again? Is that why he was a perfect sacrifice and when taking communion we not only participate in his divinity, but also in holy humanity?
Click to expand...
Yes to all. He took on an immaculately conceived body from His Mother which became glorified at the Resurrection. Same thing will happen to all of us when we rise (unless we are lost).
 
Do you mean the devil’s pride and arrogance led to his own temptation or to the temptation of Jesus, or both? If the former, where did the devil’s pride and arrogance come from if he was created as Lucifer, one of the most majestic and perfect of G-d’s creatures? If the latter, wouldn’t the temptation of Jesus, being an inclination to sin, be internal as well as external? Doesn’t the inclination to sin, even without the act itself, require a receptive being as well as an external influence? But how could the temptation exist within Jesus if His human will is entirely in accord with His divine will?
 
Last edited:
meltzerboy2 said:
where did the devil’s pride and arrogance come from if he was created as Lucifer, one of the most majestic and perfect of G-d’s creatures?
Click to expand...
G-d gave lucifer free will, just as with all the angels and us as well. The devil chose to abuse that gift and took a third of the angels with him, then slithered into paradise and caused Adam and Eve to fall.

So as far as where lucifer’s evil came from, it came from lucifer himself. Evil doesn’t actually exist, it is a lack of good. For free will to be truly free you have to be able to choose evil. So G-d gave every being with free will the power to choose good or throw it away.
 
We believe that the devil tempted Adam and Eve, but we don’t hold that they were “untemptable” apart from the devil. In the case of Adam and Eve, it would be sins of pride, as hunger and other animal needs would have had no power over their intellects (traditionally).

Jesus was without sin, but he humbled himself to adopt our fallen nature. He felt things such as hunger and pain and animal needs as we do.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
Do you mean the devil’s pride and arrogance led to his own temptation or to the temptation of Jesus, or both? If the former, where did the devil’s pride and arrogance come from if he was created as Lucifer, one of the most majestic and perfect of G-d’s creatures? If the latter, wouldn’t the temptation of Jesus, being an inclination to sin, be internal as well as external? Doesn’t the inclination to sin, even without the act itself, require a receptive being as well as an external influence? But how could the temptation exist within Jesus if His human will is entirely in accord with His divine will?
Click to expand...
What is meant by Jesus being tempted is the devil tried to entice him, hence place the temptation before him when he proposed Jesus turn stone into bread after 40 days of fasting. Jesus refused no matter how hungry he was. He did not have an inclination to the slightest to yield to the devil’s proposal.
 
That sounds reasonable. Only one would think that Lucifer, of all beings created by G-d, would be LEAST likely to use his free will against his creator, given his superb intelligence and majesty, let alone become the MOST evil of all G-d’s creatures. But there it is…
 
meltzerboy2 said:
That sounds reasonable. Only one would think that Lucifer, of all beings created by G-d, would be LEAST likely to use his free will against his creator, given his superb intelligence and majesty, let alone become the MOST evil of all G-d’s creatures. But there it is…
Click to expand...
But then again, lucifer decided to try to use the very gifts he was given against G-d Who gave them to him. It makes no sense… it’s completely illogical. But that just goes to show that evil is nothing. Good always makes sense, but evil never does because there is nothing within evil to make sense of.
 
All right. I had thought that Jesus’ temptation meant He had some inclination toward sin even though He did not actually complete that inclination. So you’re saying the temptation remained an external force which was not entertained by Jesus. I take it then there was no struggle within Jesus whether or not to yield to the temptation.
 
Traditional teaching on angels is that their intellect is superior to our own (in fact, what they essentially are are intellects, whereas we also have bodies). They were created with infused knowledge. Their first “act” upon existing was to reflect upon their knowledge and being and God. They then selected the objects of their wills. Most of the angels chose God as their highest end. Some didn’t.
 
Wesrock said:
Traditional teaching on angels is that their intellect is superior to our own (in fact, what they essentially are are intellects, whereas we also have bodies). They were created with infused knowledge. Their first “act” upon existing was to reflect upon their knowledge and being and God. They then selected the objects of their wills. Most of the angels chose God as their highest end. Some didn’t.
Click to expand...
And since angels have no bodies, they aren’t bound to time the way we are: so their decision between “smoking” or “non-smoking” is permanent. This is why the devil can’t repent.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top