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NightRider
Guest
Yes! You are right on the mark once again! Well put, friend. Many blessings!
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steelebeam
Guest
Oh, I deffinately agree and know that there in another dimention/realm/reality of spirituality toward sexuality. I’ve experienced that deep intimacy myself where I’ve told my wife while making love how unworthy and yet fortunate (in the humble understanding that we were imaging God in our unitive act) that I was to be with her at that very instant, while looking into her eyes. It’s the type of deep love a sinner doesn’t feel worthy of (though in God’s dignity for him he is). And so I’m obviously not denying that reality whatsoever.
The point I was getting at was the fact that Christ, being of perfect order in mind, sprit and will would not allow sexuality to “drive” Him, or even the spirituality of it- as the spirituality of sexuality is ordained for those commited to the sacrament of marriage. So therefore said spirituality and sacrament was not His to partake of (though in sacred mystery it is from Him as a reflection of He and the Church as Bridegroom and Bride!!) And still yet, reflecting upon my own relationship with my wife, as I seek to be in Christ-right order of heart, mind and will as well, I don’t allow my desires of the flesh (self centered pleasure seeking) to “drive” or have influence over me.
Possibly you are recalling how some are of the notion that “sexuality” in a broader sense refers more generally to every love relationship that we should have with every person, and not strictly to intercourse. If this is what your mind conjures, I then understand where you are coming from, as Christ’s “sex drive” is not necessarily orientated toward one individual (woman) but toward every human being as the Church!! Then “YES, Christ had a ‘sex drive’” He had the greatest andmost pure of all sex drives.
I am a Protestant convert and just LOVE this stuff- it is literally my LIFE. So please forgive the long winded pieces.
God Love You All!
Justin S. Steele
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Prometheum_x
Guest
I am a protestant convert as well (as of Easter 2004) and I share in your enthusiasm for this and nearly any other subject that relates to the Love of God.
I am considering sexuality in the broader sense. First of all, that is applicable to all and not just the married. Second, it is this broad sense of sexuality that we first experience before we ever experience that proper to marriage. I would actually say that marital sexuality is a particular manifestation of the broader sense of sexuality rather than being a separate thing. We can understand the meaning and significance of marital sexuality best if we understand it in the context of the broader sense.
Regarding “drive”: When I see that word, I don’t think of an obsessive compulsion, i.e., “driven”. The connotation that is suggested to me is more that of “a motivating force, a strong desire which prompts action.”
Thus, I see nothing inherently wrong with have a “drive”. The problem comes when these various drives – the desire for food, drink, pleasure, etc. – take control. The problem is not these desires; the problem is the dis-integration between our will and our bodies – no self control.
Earlier you made reference to Jesus having a “holiness drive” rather than a sex drive. I would not put those in opposition. Rather, I think that his “holiness drive” and his sex drive are fully integrated, such that the sex drive exists within the context of the holiness drive.
For each of us, rather than trying to eliminate or deny the presence of these various desires, we ought to not let them be our masters and bring them under control so that they might be used for the service of the Kingdom of God.
I am considering sexuality in the broader sense. First of all, that is applicable to all and not just the married. Second, it is this broad sense of sexuality that we first experience before we ever experience that proper to marriage. I would actually say that marital sexuality is a particular manifestation of the broader sense of sexuality rather than being a separate thing. We can understand the meaning and significance of marital sexuality best if we understand it in the context of the broader sense.
Regarding “drive”: When I see that word, I don’t think of an obsessive compulsion, i.e., “driven”. The connotation that is suggested to me is more that of “a motivating force, a strong desire which prompts action.”
Thus, I see nothing inherently wrong with have a “drive”. The problem comes when these various drives – the desire for food, drink, pleasure, etc. – take control. The problem is not these desires; the problem is the dis-integration between our will and our bodies – no self control.
Earlier you made reference to Jesus having a “holiness drive” rather than a sex drive. I would not put those in opposition. Rather, I think that his “holiness drive” and his sex drive are fully integrated, such that the sex drive exists within the context of the holiness drive.
For each of us, rather than trying to eliminate or deny the presence of these various desires, we ought to not let them be our masters and bring them under control so that they might be used for the service of the Kingdom of God.
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steelebeam
Guest
Exactly 
. I think we’ve always been on the same train of thought, just expressing the same thing at different times with a different emphasis.
I believe you’ve restated what I meant by what proper and improper “drives” are, though I may have neglected to clarify that proper drives as we both agree flow from orthopraxy, or what I coined as a “Holiness drive”. But I had said, “That is also to say, all Jesus’ “drives” were rightly ordered.” which includes proper drives - never intending to come across as though I thought any of them “inherently wrong” or “obsesive compulsive”. If you got that from my writings I’d ask you to read them again, and then ask yourself why you got that.
I see that I was at first narrowing in on the essence of a drive motivating toward its end. NOTE: the topic started as pertaining to “Sex drive” and not sexuality! Thus the topic started narrow and more focused on sex, which I automatically understood as the act thereof. And I may be mistaken but I don’t belive we can broaden what sex is in the physical reality, as we can sexuality. “Spiritual Sex” sounds too LDS to me! But then again recieving the Eucharist is this in a spiritual sense, as Scott Hahn has illumened for me. Did Jesus want to have sex with anyone? Not physically but through our reception of the Eucharist, if you really want to call that “sex”. Anyhow, due to your first response to my first reflection I saw where you were looking from and agreed with you and then attmpted to expound that. If you read again the last paragraph I think we agree. I am confident in this at this point. I believe we are just two teachers coming at this from different angles. And two teachers, I believe, often have difficulty at first because of this reason.
I praise to know that He brought you into the fold! I you would like to dialogue and share thoughts I believe you can do a private dialogue through this network.
. I think we’ve always been on the same train of thought, just expressing the same thing at different times with a different emphasis.I believe you’ve restated what I meant by what proper and improper “drives” are, though I may have neglected to clarify that proper drives as we both agree flow from orthopraxy, or what I coined as a “Holiness drive”. But I had said, “That is also to say, all Jesus’ “drives” were rightly ordered.” which includes proper drives - never intending to come across as though I thought any of them “inherently wrong” or “obsesive compulsive”. If you got that from my writings I’d ask you to read them again, and then ask yourself why you got that.
I see that I was at first narrowing in on the essence of a drive motivating toward its end. NOTE: the topic started as pertaining to “Sex drive” and not sexuality! Thus the topic started narrow and more focused on sex, which I automatically understood as the act thereof. And I may be mistaken but I don’t belive we can broaden what sex is in the physical reality, as we can sexuality. “Spiritual Sex” sounds too LDS to me! But then again recieving the Eucharist is this in a spiritual sense, as Scott Hahn has illumened for me. Did Jesus want to have sex with anyone? Not physically but through our reception of the Eucharist, if you really want to call that “sex”. Anyhow, due to your first response to my first reflection I saw where you were looking from and agreed with you and then attmpted to expound that. If you read again the last paragraph I think we agree. I am confident in this at this point. I believe we are just two teachers coming at this from different angles. And two teachers, I believe, often have difficulty at first because of this reason.
I praise to know that He brought you into the fold! I you would like to dialogue and share thoughts I believe you can do a private dialogue through this network.
N
NightRider
Guest
The formal word for what y’all are talkin’ about is eros.
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Geremia
Guest
I am sure Jesus had a sexual drive because He was true man, in addition to being truly divine. He focused his sexuality entirely toward the doing of God’s will in a way that did not include lust or any other sin.
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Sam_777
Guest
Because he is Lord (i.e., from heavens), where there is no sex (Matthew 22:30).
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GraceDK
Guest
Sure, Jesus had a sex drive… He was wholly God and wholly man… all human beings have a sex drive. that does not make them sinners… what makes them sinners in this area is if they act on that sexdrive outside of the sacrament of marriage or in distorted ways. So you can safely assume that Jesus did not have sexual relations with anyone, not himself and not anyone else either.
He also knew He was the promised Messiah and He knew he was going to die in Jerusalem at the time where He did… therefore saying that he might have had a relationship with a woman -obviously with the knowlege that they would never get married- would be very wrong.
Some people have said that he might have been married… thats very wrong for the same reason.
Jesus was GREAT not because He was not tempted… but because He overcame temptation, all of them, in victory and He died without ever having sinned.
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FlatAffect
Guest
Jesus only sees your soul. Even in His human state, He viewed others through the prism of their souls. In order to look at a woman with lust, you have to be focusing on the physical attributes of the woman—these did not matter to Him as He was & is God.
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FlatAffect
Guest
Of the three temptations Jesus had, none of them involved woman. You have to look at these temptations provided by Satan because these were the TRUE tempations for Jesus. If Jesus looked at woman in that way, then Satan obviously would used that weakness to tempt Him.
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GraceDK
Guest
I am sorry if it disturbs your image of Christ but He was wholly God… and the Bible is clear on the fact that He became our equal in ALL THINGS… except: He did not sin.
That means He had all the drives that humans have… the sexual drive is one of the big one that define us as human beings… Jesus was a human being… He was not an a-sexual angel.
However, He did not sin.
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turtle18
Guest
I think you are missing the point. The Bible DOES tell us what Jesus was tempted by. And sex isn’t one of them. Think about it, if you were God and enslaved yourself to become human, what would tempt you the most? POWER & AUTHORITY, not sex.
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Caesar517
Guest
Do you think the Bible tells us everything that took place? Do you think every single time Jesus was tempted by something it is written in the Bible?
I don’t.
EDIT: Although I agree that power would have likely been the greater temptation, as it is with all humans.
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Trishie
Guest
Hi Grace, these are my comments, I suppose, on your question. I take fairly seriously a personla quiet vocation to pray for priests, hence the following. And what I pray regarding priests…he is their example…
Religious life and companionship
Jesus, encourage those You call to serve as Priests and Religious the grace to consider their intention honestly. Some Priests and Religious suffer temptation to abandon their vocations. Some lose faith in God and Church. Some regret loss of personal freedom. Some are troubled by lack of close companionship.
A lifelong sacrifice of parenthood and marital companionship requires careful reflection, remembering that compassion for Adam’s loneliness led the Spirit to breathe life into Eve. This ensured mutual companionship and means to ensure propagation of humankind. Therefore, Jesus, we pray for Your Priests and Religious who are lonely or over-extended. Help them to find loyal friendship amongst their colleagues, and appropriate support and hospitality from their communities and congregations. Let them find sufficient satisfaction in their vocations as they continue towards holiness in service of Your people.
**Jesus, though divine, You were never less human than we are. In the grace and love that filled You, the prayer that nurtured You, and the penance that gave You strength against the temptations of nature, You remained the more sensitively human. You stood alone before us, sinless, and celibate in holy witness to the state to which You invite Your chosen ones. **
Called to carry the cross of atonement for all human sin, You renounced self, submitting to God’s Will, obedient to the Holy Spirit in everything. You served gladly and humbly, without seeking to be served, giving Your life as ransom for all who accept Your salvation. To this sacrifice, You quietly invite those whom You call.
You invite them to set aside their right to exclusive marital companionship, so that they give unencumbered support to their sisters and brothers in Christ. Acceptance of such commitment may entail occasions of loneliness, yet isolation and struggle characterises many marriages, for each state has its blessings and its crosses.
Should anyone fail to carry their vocational cross, please bless and restore them and anyone injured by them. Let Your Priests and Religious always solicit Your strength where human frailty undermines their commitment. Give them trust that You will never abandon them to their weaknesses and failures.
You continue to offer faith, obedience, charity, perseverance, prayer and penance. If they sometimes fail to accept these, then You continue tenderly to hold out the restoring graces of rational balance and of Your compassionate forgiveness.
Grant wisdom in fraternity so that Your priests remain in Your service to truly love everyone with undivided heart. Give them compassion that leads to spiritual insight and human wholeness in accord with Your creative and redemptive purpose. Blessed is our God, who so loves His creatures! Worship Yourself in them and serve others in them! …Trishie
Religious life and companionship
Jesus, encourage those You call to serve as Priests and Religious the grace to consider their intention honestly. Some Priests and Religious suffer temptation to abandon their vocations. Some lose faith in God and Church. Some regret loss of personal freedom. Some are troubled by lack of close companionship.
A lifelong sacrifice of parenthood and marital companionship requires careful reflection, remembering that compassion for Adam’s loneliness led the Spirit to breathe life into Eve. This ensured mutual companionship and means to ensure propagation of humankind. Therefore, Jesus, we pray for Your Priests and Religious who are lonely or over-extended. Help them to find loyal friendship amongst their colleagues, and appropriate support and hospitality from their communities and congregations. Let them find sufficient satisfaction in their vocations as they continue towards holiness in service of Your people.
**Jesus, though divine, You were never less human than we are. In the grace and love that filled You, the prayer that nurtured You, and the penance that gave You strength against the temptations of nature, You remained the more sensitively human. You stood alone before us, sinless, and celibate in holy witness to the state to which You invite Your chosen ones. **
Called to carry the cross of atonement for all human sin, You renounced self, submitting to God’s Will, obedient to the Holy Spirit in everything. You served gladly and humbly, without seeking to be served, giving Your life as ransom for all who accept Your salvation. To this sacrifice, You quietly invite those whom You call.
You invite them to set aside their right to exclusive marital companionship, so that they give unencumbered support to their sisters and brothers in Christ. Acceptance of such commitment may entail occasions of loneliness, yet isolation and struggle characterises many marriages, for each state has its blessings and its crosses.
Should anyone fail to carry their vocational cross, please bless and restore them and anyone injured by them. Let Your Priests and Religious always solicit Your strength where human frailty undermines their commitment. Give them trust that You will never abandon them to their weaknesses and failures.
You continue to offer faith, obedience, charity, perseverance, prayer and penance. If they sometimes fail to accept these, then You continue tenderly to hold out the restoring graces of rational balance and of Your compassionate forgiveness.
Grant wisdom in fraternity so that Your priests remain in Your service to truly love everyone with undivided heart. Give them compassion that leads to spiritual insight and human wholeness in accord with Your creative and redemptive purpose. Blessed is our God, who so loves His creatures! Worship Yourself in them and serve others in them! …Trishie
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KingAlfred
Guest
I want to believe our Lord transcended sexual urges. But, there’s really no way of knowing, in a historical sense, for sure. In this instance, I cling to the Jesus of the Bible, as opposed to the historical Jesus, Jesus the man. Sex and romantic relationships interfere with the pure, spiritual life. How much of our lives has fallen into disrepair thanks to sex and romance? Probably way too much.
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coda
Guest
SPOT ON…
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GraceDK
Guest
Transcended?
But the Bible says plainly He became our equal in all things except for sin… Of course he did not have “sex and romance”… then He would have sinned … so thats wholly besides the point.
´
Man cant be wholly man without having a sex drive… sorry… its just not done… unless you are saying that Jesus had some kind of mental condition… That would not make sense… it would also be heresy to think so. the question to ask your self is: why are you uable to accept this part of Jesus humanity that He was a sexual being like you and I?
I, in fact, am most comfortable with knowing that when I pray to Jesus to help me free from sexual urges… He does have authority to help me exactly because He has been there… He understands what it means to be human in all things… except sin. This is Chuch teaching…
That is why He is so awesome… He is the compassionate who stepped into humanity… WHOLLY MAN and Wholly God. If you say He had no sex drive then you fall into error of early heretics who were not comfortable with the fact that Jesus really was wholly human.
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Caesar517
Guest
I think people are confusing “sex drive” with “disorded desire for sex”.
A sex drive is a perfectly God-given part of the human being. Because of Original Sin, we have to be very careful to control our sex drives, but there is nothing inherently sinful about it.
J
jean8
Guest
Did you forget, Jesus is God. Jn1:1 He is God robed in flesh.
I won’t any further with such a question…
Jesus is human and divine. The God-man, He is Emmanuel, God with us. Mt.1:23, He was the Theantropos.
I suggest you have a talk with your pastor.
jean8
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guanophore
Guest
I suppose it is impossible for us to know. I think when Jesus was talking about certain persons who chose to be eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom, he was speaking of Himself. He could have taken a wife and had kids, but that was not part of his plan of salvation. If He experienced attraction, he handled it the way any person called to celibacy would do, and consecrated his whole sexuality to God.
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