Did Jesus have brothers and sisters?

[JonNC]

As this link explains pretty convincingly, Catholics believe that Mary represents the Ark of the New Covenant, which has special significance to the Catholic belief in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity.

BTW, this belief is not restricted to Catholics - even the earliest Protestant Reformers Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli believed in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity. Those who deny the Perpetual Virginity of Mary have cut themselves off even from their Protestant forefathers.

The bolded, Erich, may be a bit of an overstatement, at least regarding Lutherans. I pretty much agree with Iggy.

Given that the oldest tradition we have in the church regarding siblings of Christ is that He had none, the best viable alternative is that James was a stepbrother to Christ, from a previous marriage of Joseph. This is likely, as Joseph would have been much older than Mary (he is deceased by the time Christ reaches adulthood).

I’ll add to it the statement made by the Formula of Concord:

On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother’s womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin.

But all that said, Lutherans have room to disagree on this, as it is not a matter of doctrine, as it is in the Catholic Church. I suspect Luther would disagree with those who do not believe in her pertpetual virginity, but I don’t think he would consider it as an article of faith.
Other Lutherans here might have a different viewpoint.

I might add that a large array of protestants wouldn’t consider Luther a “forefather” anyway.

Jon

 

[JPeter]

The issue with Mary is entirely another matter altogether. She had a special relationship with God. She was the daughter of the Father, the spouse of the Holy Spirit and the mother of the Son. No one had this relationship with the Trinity but her. She was chosen among all women for the single purpose of being the Mother of God. Her perpetual virginity is a sign of this relationship with God. It does not mean that the Church views having children as something less than good.

Good point!

 

[Robertanthony]

Did Jesus have brothers and sisters?

Recently, I found myself in a discussion with some fellow Anglicans, at my Parish who insisted Jesus had brothers and sisters, because of Bible translations that speak of brothers and sisters of Jesus. For some reason, these few people are completely disregarding Tradition.

**I know the Semitic languages do not have a specific word for brother or sister. **Even the Greek word for brother, adelphos, is used for relatives other than brother.

James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas are called the “brothers” of Jesus.
Matthew 13:
55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”
**
Mark 6:**

That’s strange. When Cain said “I am not my brother’s keeper”, did he use a periphrase like "the one to whom the woman who gave birth to me also gave birth "? “Brother” is such a simple concept, how strange that no word exists. Why is it that nothing in the Bible can be taken at face value: Jesus’ brothers aren’t Jesus’ brothers, Mary’s cousin, Elizabeth may have been any kind of relative, but when Cain say he’s not his brother’s keeper, then he means he’s not his real brother’s keeper, did Peter have a mother-in-law or is there no such word for it, she might have been his grandmother for all we know? We’re not talking about immutability or the immortality of God here, we’re merely talking about “brothers” here, children of the same woman.

 

[Miriam1947]

Joseph was a widower, he had children already. Not sure where they were when Mary gave birth.

How do you know that?

 

[Miriam1947]

The bolded, Erich, may be a bit of an overstatement, at least regarding Lutherans. I pretty much agree with Iggy.

I’ll add to it the statement made by the Formula of Concord:

But all that said, Lutherans have room to disagree on this, as it is not a matter of doctrine, as it is in the Catholic Church. I suspect Luther would disagree with those who do not believe in her pertpetual virginity, but I don’t think he would consider it as an article of faith.
Other Lutherans here might have a different viewpoint.

I might add that a large array of protestants wouldn’t consider Luther a “forefather” anyway.

Jon

I find this inspiring.

youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

 

[MartinJordan]

The bolded, Erich, may be a bit of an overstatement, at least regarding Lutherans. I pretty much agree with Iggy.

I’ll add to it the statement made by the Formula of Concord:

But all that said, Lutherans have room to disagree on this, as it is not a matter of doctrine, as it is in the Catholic Church. I suspect Luther would disagree with those who do not believe in her pertpetual virginity, but I don’t think he would consider it as an article of faith.
Other Lutherans here might have a different viewpoint.

I might add that a large array of protestants wouldn’t consider Luther a “forefather” anyway.

Jon

The further from the origins of Christianity we go, the further doubts and everything else creeps in.

MJ

 

[Sparrowhawk1161]

The most important part of this is that Mary was contacted by an Angel. Many times did she say no to the angel. Buch she eventually gave in and did what the Lord commanded… She had a Son without a human father. It was a Virgin birth. The Father was the Holy Spirit of God. And it was an “Immaculate Conception” because there was no human father. The father was the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD

But, eventually she said yes, and was impregnated by the Holy Spirit before nay other of the children with Joseph. Joseph did have other children.

One of the most notable was James… a bother, who became devoted to his brother, devoted in such a way that he is now a Saint… because he stook by his brother.

Mary and Joseph waited later to be nmzrried to not allow a scandel of a son without Josephs conception. He married later. Did The have other Children… Yes, but the most important part was the Immaculate Conception from the Holy Spirit to Mary.

This changed her. The Holy Spirit creating a conception created Mary into something that Catholics believe. Since she was concieved by God, all the sin she ever had… vanished.

Do you want to know how special Mary is? Saint Paul in his writings said that if a Christian marries a non-Christian, that perswon is saved. That meant that Holy Mary or “Reverent Mary,” by the union of the Holy Spirit of God, was not only saved, but, all her sins… from the original sin of time…was now nullified… she was pure. That is why Catholics see her as the Queen of the Saints.

Yes, she had other children after Jesus… but, she is remembered for that conception…

Are you looking for all the kids she had after or the Savior? James the Bother of Jesus was a devoted follower…thus a canonized saint… Mary did have children… but, what she is remembered for was Jesus and James the saint…

 

[mwok]

Did Jesus have brothers and sisters?

Recently, I found myself in a discussion with some fellow Anglicans, at my Parish who insisted Jesus had brothers and sisters, because of Bible translations that speak of brothers and sisters of Jesus. For some reason, these few people are completely disregarding Tradition.

I know the Semitic languages do not have a specific word for brother or sister. Even the Greek word for brother, adelphos, is used for relatives other than brother.

James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas are called the “brothers” of Jesus.
Matthew 13:
55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”
**
Mark 6:**
1 He went away from there and came to his hometown, and his disciples followed him. 2 And on the Sabbath he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things? What is the wisdom given to him? How are such mighty works done by his hands? 3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

Let’s start with James.

The first mention of James is found in Matthew, Chapter 4. This James is identified as James the son of Zebedee and is usually mentioned with his brother John. I think he is traditionally called "James the Greater."
Matthew 4:
21 And going on from there he saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets, and he called them. 22 Immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.

We find James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, and the other James identified as the son of Alphaeus (traditionally called “James the Less”) named among the Apostles.
Mark 3:
13 And he went up on the mountain and called to him those whom he desired, and they came to him. 14 And he appointed twelve (whom he also named apostles) so that they might be with him and he might send them out to preach 15 and have authority to cast out demons. 16 He appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter); 17 James the son of Zebedee and John the brother of James (to whom he gave the name Boanerges, that is, Sons of Thunder); 18 Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot, 19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

James (son of Zebedee) is mentioned again as one of the witnesses to the Transfiguration:
Matthew 17:
1 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light.

James the brother of John, son of Zebedee, is killed.
Acts 12:
About that time Herod the king laid violent hands on some who belonged to the church. 2 He killed James the brother of John with the sword, . . .

**So, I’m assuming further mentions of James refer to James the son of Alphaeus (James the Less.) **
Acts 12:
16 But Peter continued knocking, and when they opened, they saw him and were amazed. 17 But motioning to them with his hand to be silent, he described to them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And he said, “Tell these things to James and to the brothers.” Then he departed and went to another place.

James at the Jerusalem Council:
Acts 15:
13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. 14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written, . . . .

Paul is accepted by the Apostles, including James:
Galatians 2:
7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

Paul visits James:
Acts 21:
17 When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.

Isn’t this a reference to the same James as above, the son of Alphaeus?
Galatians 1:
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

**And then there is the Book of James.

Is there another James mentioned in the N.T. besides James the son of Zebedee and James the son of Alphaeus?

Also, I haven’t found anyone called the son of Joseph, except Jesus.

I welcome your help. I do believe that Mary is the Ever Virgin.
**

Of course Jesus had brothers and sisters! They were Joseph’s children from his previous marriage!

 

[mwok]

The most important part of this is that Mary was contacted by an Angel. Many times did she say no to the angel. Buch she eventually gave in and did what the Lord commanded… She had a Son without a human father. It was a Virgin birth. The Father was the Holy Spirit of God. And it was an “Immaculate Conception” because there was no human father. The father was the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD

But, eventually she said yes, and was impregnated by the Holy Spirit before nay other of the children with Joseph. Joseph did have other children.

One of the most notable was James… a bother, who became devoted to his brother, devoted in such a way that he is now a Saint… because he stook by his brother.

Mary and Joseph waited later to be nmzrried to not allow a scandel of a son without Josephs conception. He married later. Did The have other Children… Yes, but the most important part was the Immaculate Conception from the Holy Spirit to Mary.

This changed her. The Holy Spirit creating a conception created Mary into something that Catholics believe. Since she was concieved by God, all the sin she ever had… vanished.

Do you want to know how special Mary is? Saint Paul in his writings said that if a Christian marries a non-Christian, that perswon is saved. That meant that Holy Mary or “Reverent Mary,” by the union of the Holy Spirit of God, was not only saved, but, all her sins… from the original sin of time…was now nullified… she was pure. That is why Catholics see her as the Queen of the Saints.

Yes, she had other children after Jesus… but, she is remembered for that conception…

Are you looking for all the kids she had after or the Savior? James the Bother of Jesus was a devoted follower…thus a canonized saint… Mary did have children… but, what she is remembered for was Jesus and James the saint…

I thought it was the Immaculate Conception because Mary was without sin.

 

[1voice]

As this link explains pretty convincingly, Catholics believe that Mary represents the Ark of the New Covenant, which has special significance to the Catholic belief in Mary’s Perpetual Virginity.

All Christians are the new Ark of the Covenant.

“Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you”
1 Corinthians 3:16

 

[MartinJordan]

All Christians are the new Ark of the Covenant.

“Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you”
1 Corinthians 3:16

Saint Ambrose, Saint Ephraem of Syria and Saint Augustine and St. Athanasius have a different opinion

MJ

 

[Nicea325]

All Christians are the new Ark of the Covenant.

“Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you”
1 Corinthians 3:16

All Christians are the new Ark? Far from it!

 

[JPeter]

Ezekiel 43:27-44:4 is a prophesy of the Lord entering the blessed Virgins womb and being born nine months later with her virginity remaining intact. The eastern outer gate is seen by the fathers as the womb of the Virgin, which was shut because the Lord God had entered by it. Some see this passage as describing the ever virginity of Mary. St. Jerome writes that the eastern gate images the Virgin Mary, whose womb is “always shut and always shining, and either concealed or revealing the holy of holies; and through the the sun of righteousness, our high priest after the order of Melchizedek, goes in and out.”

Now this is not scriptural proof but it is proof that this is how many of the early fathers understood this verse. I agree that the doctrine of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is sound and logical, but without more scriptural proof it cannot be considered dogmatic for Anglicans. I think the Lutherans take a similar stance.

 

[couponfit]

How do you know that?

Non scriptural tradition and writings preserved but not in the bible. There is much written that was not put in the bible. The bible is not the total sum of all early writings and letters on Jesus and Mary and Joseph.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Non scriptural tradition and writings preserved but not in the bible. There is much written that was not put in the bible. The bible is not the total sum of all early writings and letters on Jesus and Mary and Joseph.

Far from it, in fact the Bible clearly states this much. And there are many historically accurate works within 3-decades of Christs sacrifice which are not in the bible, Acts of Andrew off the top of my head. And the list just extends forward. When your trapped in the Bible only mind-set philosophy you limit your own knowledge, knowledge extends to TRUTH.

Peace

 

[Miriam1947]

The most important part of this is that Mary was contacted by an Angel. Many times did she say no to the angel. Buch she eventually gave in and did what the Lord commanded… She had a Son without a human father. It was a Virgin birth. The Father was the Holy Spirit of God. And it was an “Immaculate Conception” because there was no human father. The father was the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD

But, eventually she said yes, and was impregnated by the Holy Spirit before nay other of the children with Joseph. Joseph did have other children.

One of the most notable was James… a bother, who became devoted to his brother, devoted in such a way that he is now a Saint… because he stook by his brother.

Mary and Joseph waited later to be nmzrried to not allow a scandel of a son without Josephs conception. He married later. Did The have other Children… Yes, but the most important part was the Immaculate Conception from the Holy Spirit to Mary.

This changed her. The Holy Spirit creating a conception created Mary into something that Catholics believe. Since she was concieved by God, all the sin she ever had… vanished.

Do you want to know how special Mary is? Saint Paul in his writings said that if a Christian marries a non-Christian, that perswon is saved. That meant that Holy Mary or “Reverent Mary,” by the union of the Holy Spirit of God, was not only saved, but, all her sins… from the original sin of time…was now nullified… she was pure. That is why Catholics see her as the Queen of the Saints.

Yes, she had other children after Jesus… but, she is remembered for that conception…

Are you looking for all the kids she had after or the Savior? James the Bother of Jesus was a devoted follower…thus a canonized saint… Mary did have children… but, what she is remembered for was Jesus and James the saint…

Are you really Catholic?

Here read this:

traditionalcatholicteaching.com/lesson18-the-blessed-virgin-mary.html

 

[Anna_Scott]

Wow. You guys have been really busy. I was tied up in the world outside the forums yesterday, and just came back to find all your responses. I’ll read through all of them.

Thanks so much for all the comments.

Peace and blessings,
Anna (OP)

 

[1voice]

Originally Posted by 1voice
All Christians are the new Ark of the Covenant.

“Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you”
1 Corinthians 3:16

All Christians are the new Ark? Far from it!

God, through Paul, is deceiving us?

 

[Anna_Scott]

**Did Jesus have brothers and sisters?

Recently, I found myself in a discussion with some fellow Anglicans, at my Parish who insisted Jesus had brothers and sisters, because of Bible translations that speak of brothers and sisters of Jesus. For some reason, these few people are completely disregarding Tradition.

I know the Semitic languages do not have a specific word for brother or sister. Even the Greek word for brother, adelphos**, is used for relatives other than brother. . . .

Let’s start with James. . . . .Is there another James mentioned in the N.T. besides James the son of Zebedee and James the son of Alphaeus?

Also, I haven’t found anyone called the son of Joseph, except Jesus.

I welcome your help. I do believe that Mary is the Ever Virgin.

. . . .I am aware of Rome’s position regarding Mary’s perpetual virginity (I agree that she remains the ever virgin); however, the purpose of this thread is to discuss whether or not, according to Holy Scripture, Jesus had brothers and sisters.
. . . .We’re focused on James to start.

I found this in the Catholic Encyclopedia (newadvent.org/cathen/08280a.htm):

"On the whole, although there is no full evidence for the identity of James (2), the son of Alpheus, and James (3), the brother of the Lord, and James (4), the son of Mary of Clopas, the view that one and the same person is described in the New Testament in these three different ways, is by far the most probable. There is, at any rate, very good ground (Galatians 1:19, 2:9, 2:12) for believing that the Apostle James, the son of Alpheus is the same person as James, the brother of the Lord, the well-known Bishop of Jerusalem of the Acts. As to the nature of the relationship which the name “brother of the Lord” is intended to express, see BRETHREN OF THE LORD."

**Do you think the Apostle James, the son of Alpheus is the same person as James, the brother of the Lord, the Bishop of Jerusalem?

Anna**

No, because the Apostle James, son of Alphaeus, is commissioned by Christ as an Apostle at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry. James, his brother, later bishop, does not believe in Christ until after the resurrection.

The only time we hear from James or any of Jesus’ other relations is when they think he has lost his mind. John 7:5 explicitly states that his brothers did not believe in Him.

This passage is translated as “brethren” in many Bible translations. So, I’m not sure it “explicitly” states his “brothers” did not believe in him. Brethren does not necessarily refer to a blood relative.

Another important passage in relation to the identity of the son of Alphaeus is 1 Corinthians 15. There Paul states that Jesus, after the resurrection, first appeared to the twelve apostles…of which both James son of Zebedee and James son of Alphaeus would have been numbered. Then Jesus appeared to the 500…then to James. This would be his brother, because Paul has already said that Jesus appeared to James son of Alphaeus (among the twelve).

1 Corinthians 15:
1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you— unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

**Jesus appeared to:
Cephas,
then the twelve
500 brothers at one time (this use of “brother” here would not indicate a blood relation)
James
then to all the Apostles

I see your point. In this passage, it does appear James was not one of the twelve.

However, we do know, from Galations1:19; James the “Lord’s brother” was an Apostle. The issue then would be whether or not he was one of the twelve Apostles.
**
Galatians 1:
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.

So, you are saying the James in Galatians 1:19, 2:9, 2:12 is not the same person?

 

[1voice]

Originally Posted by 1voice
All Christians are the new Ark of the Covenant.

“Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you”
1 Corinthians 3:16

Saint Ambrose, Saint Ephraem of Syria and Saint Augustine and St. Athanasius have a different opinion

MJ

You can accept the opinion of anyone you choose.
I accept this opinion as written and from a very reliable source… long before the authors that you reference were born…
The word of God in the book of Psalms clearly and simply states…
…" you have exalted your Word above all your name."
Psalm 138:2