Did Jesus have brothers and sisters?

[PRmerger]

AS for Matt 1: 25.
The Greek word for, " Till", As is, "“Not til”, Is, “Heos”.
And the meaning is,
“Until”.
Meaning, Mary had no sexual relations UNTILL after Jesus was born.
Meaning Mary and Joseph had sexual relations after Jesus was born.

You do know, Gospel Man, that* heos *is also used in

Until I come, attend to the public reading of scripture, to preaching, to teaching. ~1 Timothy 4:13:

Is it your position that once St. Paul comes public reading of Scripture must cease?

For he (Christ) must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.–1 Corinthians 15:25

Are you of the position that Christ ceases to reign once his enemies are under his feet?

 

[PRmerger]

I dont understand the question. The wording is confusing.

Your position is that all we need to do to be saved is accept Jesus into our heart and confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord.

When I gave a long list of Scripture verses which detail what God has told us we must do in order to be saved…(IOW: we must do LOT more than accept him into our hearts)

you stated, as an attempt to excuse your apparent dismissal of all the other verses:

Well:
…“if … you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead” … Then …
You have already…

[been] blameless where the commandments are concerned (Matt 19:17)

So please 'splain how someone can be blameless* before* one has accepted Jesus into her heart?

(bold mine)

 

[PRmerger]

For the truth, See my post, #128.

If Joseph and Mary didn’t have sexual relations, Why would Matthew mention it, Why would God inspire Matthew to say it??.

To proclaim to the world that Joseph was not the father of Jesus; it was a clear proclamation that the Holy Spirit, NOT MAN, was the father.

 

[PRmerger]

Yes - I believe I have brought this up. Two sisters, both named Mary? Unless this was common practice (and I haven’t seen anyone ever say that it was) why would Mary’s parents name her sister “Mary?” It would make it a bit difficult to distinguish between the two and there are some very nice names they could have picked.

Mary and her sister Mary? Strange.

Sisters in law.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, I appreciate that JC, but I really didn’t have a clue about what I was getting myself into. lol. The knowledge of Bible and Tradition here would challenge even the most avid reader. I’ve had some heated debates in the past–even had to apologize a few times. And—I must confess, I had a bit of an attitude in the beginning. Just ask PRmerger. She was a CAF friend who I de-friended after a heated discussion; and then I re-friended her later after cooling down. Let’s just say, I’ve mellowed over time.

Anna

Actually, I don’t recall any heated discussions with you, Anna. My recollection is that gurney and I were exchanging barbs and you felt that I was and took action!

But of course, it’s water under the bridge and all is good. Friends 4-ever as my DDs used to love to write on their little love notes to the BFFs. :hug1:

 

[JonNC]

For the truth, See my post, #128.

If Joseph and Mary didn’t have sexual relations, Why would Matthew mention it, Why would God inspire Matthew to say it??.
The Greek reads like this,
“Joseph Didn’t have sexual relations with Mary until after Jesus was born”.

And Matt 13: 55–56 were Mary’s children.

You can’t get away from facts.

May I contend from a Lutheran point of view, that Matthew mentions it primarily to confirm her virginity at His birth, and further proclaim her remaining so.

Jon

 

[Anna_Scott]

Actually, I don’t recall any heated discussions with you, Anna. My recollection is that gurney and I were exchanging barbs and you felt that I was and took action!

But of course, it’s water under the bridge and all is good. Friends 4-ever as my DDs used to love to write on their little love notes to the BFFs. :hug1:

PRmerger,
It’s pretty bad when I can’t even remember the details leading to defriending you. lol.

You’re right. It’s all water under the bridge and yes “friends 4-ever” or now I think it is “BFF,” or something like that. :curtsey:

 

[Anna_Scott]

May I contend from a Lutheran point of view, that Matthew mentions it primarily to confirm her virginity at His birth, and further proclaim her remaining so.

Jon

Jon,

Thanks for weighing in with the Lutheran point of view. I’m not sure that it is well known that Catholics, in Communion with Rome, are not the only ones to hold the belief of the perpetual virginity of Mary.

Peace and blessings,
Anna

 

[PRmerger]

PRmerger,
It’s pretty bad when I can’t even remember the details leading to defriending you. lol.

You’re right. It’s all water under the bridge and yes “friends 4-ever” or now I think it is “BFF,” or something like that. :curtsey:

 

[Bernadette173]

As I have come to understand this it is that Mary is the Mother of Jesus, The one and triune God, therefore Mary is the mother of mankind itself and the Mother of God, makes Jesus our brother through Mary being given the grace by God the Father to bear Jesus. And therefore it makes us brothers and sisters of Christ, because we all have the same mother, Mary the Blessed and Perpetual Virgin

I hope this clears some of the confusion.

God Bless,

 

[rinnie]

JPeter,

I agree. Thank you for your comments.

Welcome to CAF! I’m seeing more Anglicans join these days.

Peace and blessings,
Anna

in those days cousins were indeed called brothers and sisters.

By the way we are all called Brothers and Sisters of Christ and he is not our Brother. He is our God.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

I know i posted this somewhere before but I guess I’ll have to do it again:

Lets a look at the people who stood by Jesus at the cross and eliminating them one-by-one to better understand exactly who they were.

We begin:

Mattew 27:[55] There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him;
[56] among whom were Mary Mag’dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb’edee.

Mark 15:[40] There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Mag’dalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salo’me,

John 19:[25] But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag’dalene.

Matthew has: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.

Mark has: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and Joses, and Salo’me.

John has: Mary(Jesus’ mother), His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

We can eliminate the common Mary(s) that we know of-Mary, the mother of Jesus & Mary Magdalene

Once you eliminate them you have:

Matthew: Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee

Mark: Mary the mother of James the younger and Joses, and Salo’me

John: His mother’s sister, and Mary the wife of Clopas

Since in the Greek the difference between Joseph and Joses is only one letter, its a safe bet that the mother of James and Joseph/Joses is another Mary, who is the wife of Clopas.

So all that is left is Salo’me, who as it seems is the mother of the sons of Zebedee, and who it seems is the sister of Mary, the Lord’s mother. Therefore James and John it would seem are COUSINS of Jesus-not brothers.

 

[Anna_Scott]

As I have come to understand this it is that Mary is the Mother of Jesus, The one and triune God, therefore Mary is the mother of mankind itself and the Mother of God, makes Jesus our brother through Mary being given the grace by God the Father to bear Jesus. And therefore it makes us brothers and sisters of Christ, because we all have the same mother, Mary the Blessed and Perpetual Virgin

I hope this clears some of the confusion.

God Bless,

Bernadette173,

I appreciate your comments.

Jesus is called the New Adam (I Corinthians 15:45) and traditionally the Blessed Virgin Mary is the “New Eve.”

Peace,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

I know i posted this somewhere before but I guess I’ll have to do it again:

Lets a look at the people who stood by Jesus at the cross and eliminating them one-by-one to better understand exactly who they were.

We begin:

Mattew 27:[55] There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him;
[56] among whom were Mary Mag’dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb’edee.

Mark 15:[40] There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Mag’dalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salo’me,

John 19:[25] But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag’dalene.

Matthew has: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.

Mark has: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and Joses, and Salo’me.

John has: Mary(Jesus’ mother), His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

We can eliminate the common Mary(s) that we know of-Mary, the mother of Jesus & Mary Magdalene

Once you eliminate them you have:

Matthew: Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee

Mark: Mary the mother of James the younger and Joses, and Salo’me

John: His mother’s sister, and Mary the wife of Clopas

Since in the Greek the difference between Joseph and Joses is only one letter, its a safe bet that the mother of James and Joseph/Joses is another Mary, who is the wife of Clopas.

So all that is left is Salo’me, who as it seems is the mother of the sons of Zebedee, and who it seems is the sister of Mary, the Lord’s mother. Therefore James and John it would seem are COUSINS of Jesus-not brothers.

The GreyPilgrim,

Great comments. Identifying the different women called Mary does assist in identifying James who was called the Lord’s brother.

Peace,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

Yes - I believe I have brought this up. Two sisters, both named Mary? Unless this was common practice (and I haven’t seen anyone ever say that it was) why would Mary’s parents name her sister “Mary?” It would make it a bit difficult to distinguish between the two and there are some very nice names they could have picked.

Mary and her sister Mary? Strange.

LittleSoldier,

Yes, it is unlikely that two siblings were given the same name. So, calling the Lord’s mother’s sister Mary is further evidence that sister does not always mean a blood sister.

John 19:25
25 but standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

Peace,
Anna

 

[rinnie]

Can/t remember is I wrote this before, but heck its worth repeating

Little food for thougth.

There were only 2 Apostles named James.

Now in Gal. 1:18-19 it says I did not see any other Apostles except for James the Brother of the Lord.

Now James is the Son of Alpheus
James is the Son of Zebedee. Don’t see Son of Joseph do we!

Those are the only 2 Apostles named James. and they are called the Brother of the Lord. Go figure!!

 

[sallybutler]

LittleSoldier,

Yes, it is unlikely that two siblings were given the same name. So, calling the Lord’s mother’s sister Mary is further evidence that sister does not always mean a blood sister.

John 19:25
25 but standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.

Peace,
Anna

Why is it unlikely? George Forman named all of his sons George. My mother put the name Mary in all her daughters names. Could you not have a Mary Patricia & a Mary Ellen & a Mary Katherine. As children, they would be called by their middle names. But when they got older, they might want to be called by a ‘grown-up’ name.

In some traditions, children are named after grandparents. If the first child had a grandmother named Mary, it would not be unusual to name the first daughter after her. If one of the spouses died and the other one remarried, could not the new mother-in-law also be named Mary. However, the first daughter was NOT named after her. So would it not be reasonable to name the next daughter after this new grandmother?

In other periods of time, people would often ‘change’ their name at different times of their lives. Ask anyone trying to do genealogical research. People appear with one name on their birth certificate, a different on a census report, and another one 10 years later on another census report.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Why is it unlikely? George Forman named all of his sons George. My mother put the name Mary in all her daughters names. Could you not have a Mary Patricia & a Mary Ellen & a Mary Katherine. As children, they would be called by their middle names. But when they got older, they might want to be called by a ‘grown-up’ name.

In some traditions, children are named after grandparents. If the first child had a grandmother named Mary, it would not be unusual to name the first daughter after her. If one of the spouses died and the other one remarried, could not the new mother-in-law also be named Mary. However, the first daughter was NOT named after her. So would it not be reasonable to name the next daughter after this new grandmother?

In other periods of time, people would often ‘change’ their name at different times of their lives. Ask anyone trying to do genealogical research. People appear with one name on their birth certificate, a different on a census report, and another one 10 years later on another census report.

sallybutler,
So, if you are claiming it was common in that culture to give siblings the same name; how do you apply that assumption to the question of whether or not Jesus had brothers and sisters?

Anna

 

[sallybutler]

sallybutler,
So, if you are claiming it was common in that culture to give siblings the same name; how do you apply that assumption to the question of whether or not Jesus had brothers and sisters?

Anna

There were people who are questioning that Mary might have a sister with a similar or same name. Since they felt that could never happen, it was, for them, additional proof that Mary had other children.

I was pointing out that, given the approach to naming, it was quite plausible that the explanations other gave for the names & the children of such named women not being the Blessed Mary’s physical children was quite reasonable and logical.

Personally, I hold to the notion that Mary and Joseph had a non-sexual relationship after Jesus was born. Joseph was aware of who the Father of Jesus was. I believe that he would treat his wife as he would a holy item in the Temple, with great reverence. She had been made holy by carrying God’s Son in a way that is much different then how we are made holy by the Presence of Jesus in our lives.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Sisters in law.

Not like in that old TV show - I can’t remember the name. It had Bob Newhart in it and there were two brothers with the same name and it was a running joke.

It would be bizarre for parents to name two daughters “Mary.”