Did Jesus have Mary's DNA?

[luvlife]

Dear Luvlife,

In one of the posting of this thread, it was correctly mentioned that Jesus is 100% God and 100% human. If we take Jesus in human side, take a look of Genesis 3:15. From the verse, we can conclude that humanly speaking, Jesus carried a part of Mary’s DNA, but not Joseph’s.

Thank you.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I said in the other pepertual thread that a good point of converstion for Marys virginity would be any other children, after Jesus would have been half siblings.

I cant go with the arguements put forth of sex being dirty, feminists find virginity enpowering they are ridiculous.

Now, DNA is something logical or interesting (theres some logic for ya there Laurence, since you were looking for it.)

Anyway, we know the child gets DNA from the mother as posted before. What does the child get from the father? other than the desicion on which gender?

(this is not speaking about Joesph in any way to be clear)

 

[Eileen_T]

I heard somewhere that Original Sin is supposed to be passed on by the father, which is why it could never have affected Jesus.

If Jesus did not have Mary’s DNA he would not have been created as a man but only have pretended to become man. He would have been two separate persons.

This sounds like the Nestorian heresy of the 5th century which led to the Council of Ephesus where Mary was declared to be Theotokos ie “Mother of God.”

 

[O.S.Luke]

I’m not sure anyone here is really trying to use science to prove anything, it is a speculative, philosophical argument, as are most of the mysteries of our faith, but things that inevitably get worked through nonetheless.

Not everyone has the stomach or patience for these things, so they get frustrated and think them to be pointless. But they’re not pointless.

If you don’t like to be bothered with the philosophical areas of faith, you really don’t have to be. I don’t think it’s quite fair to belittle people who don’t feel the same towards them as you do.

Guess I got that. Sorry. We Protestants are so shallow.

 

[YADA]

I heard somewhere that Original Sin is supposed to be passed on by the father, which is why it could never have affected Jesus.

If Jesus did not have Mary’s DNA he would not have been created as a man but only have pretended to become man. He would have been two separate persons.

This sounds like the Nestorian heresy of the 5th century which led to the Council of Ephesus where Mary was declared to be Theotokos ie “Mother of God.”

Original sin is a state into which all mankind is born into … and not just inherited from a father … Mary was preserved from that state at her conception … in other words the saving act that Jesus performs for each of us at our baptism, He performed for Mary upon her conception …

It is not a hard concept … nor is it ‘far fetched’ … God created Mary [knew her in the womb - actually gave her life - called her by name - just as he does for all of us] to be the “hand maid of the Lord” … by her choice, free will …
ANd for another poster … Jesus is not a created being…Jesus is God from God, Light from Light, Treu God from True God, Begotten not Made, One in Being with the Father…

 

[YADA]

I said in the other pepertual thread that a good point of converstion for Marys virginity would be any other children, after Jesus would have been half siblings.

I cant go with the arguements put forth of sex being dirty, feminists find virginity enpowering they are ridiculous.

Now, DNA is something logical or interesting (theres some logic for ya there Laurence, since you were looking for it.)

Anyway, we know the child gets DNA from the mother as posted before. What does the child get from the father? other than the desicion on which gender?

(this is not speaking about Joesph in any way to be clear)

Actually, in normal conception a child recieves chromozomes from each parent that form the DNA that becomes the child … so a child receives 50% of their DNA from each parent …

In the Case of JEsus, 1005 pf his humanity comes from Mry, the human part of the equation … Jesus is much like Eve ho was created fro the ricb of Adam … Eve received her flesh and blood form Adam … Jesus receined his flesh and blood from Mary …

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Actually, in normal conception a child recieves chromozomes from each parent that form the DNA that becomes the child … so a child receives 50% of their DNA from each parent …

50% ok, I couldnt remember.

 

[ralphinal]

God is the creator of all. God is the author of DNA. God created not only the rules of the game but the pieces. To say that God had to have implanted the Jesus zygot (since God has no DNA) into Mary is to limit God’s power. She was found with child by the Power of the Holy Spirit. The actual process is a mystery. However, Jesus was fully God and fully man. He was not in the appearance of man. That said, he revieved his humanity from his mother, devinity from his Father.

By the way, don’t the Muslims say that Jesus was “implanted” since God could not have had sex with Mary?

 

[paarsurrey]

Some of my Non-Catholic friends insist that Mary was not the biological mother of Jesus in that He did not receive any of her DNA. Because she became pregnant by the power of the holy spirit, he was not biologically related to her, although she carried him in her womb.

What is the Catholic view of this?

Hi

I don’t know much of science. Mirza Tahir Ahmad grandson of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 has taken up another facet of the issue, I think it would be quite interesting for the members here.

"First of all, let me remind you that the mother and father participate equally in producing a child. The cells of human beings contain 46 chromosomes, which carry the genes or character bearing threads of life. The ovum of a human mother possesses only 23 of the 46 chromosomes, which is half the number found in each man and woman.

When the mother’s ovum is ready and available for insemination, the other half of the chromosomes which it lacks, is provided by the male sperm, which then enters and fertilizes it. This is the design of God, otherwise, the number of chromosomes would begin to double with every generation. As a result the second generation would have 92 chromosomes; humans would soon be transformed into giants and the entire process of growth would run amok. God has so beautifully planned and designed the phenomenon of the survival of species that at productive levels of regenerative cells, chromosomes are halved in number.

The mother’s ovum contains 23 chromosomes and so does the father’s sperm. As such, one can reasonably expect half the characters bearing genes of the child to be provided by the female and half by the male partner. This is the meaning of a literal son. There is no other definition of being a literal son which can be ascribed to any human birth. There are variations in the methodology of course, but there are no exceptions to the rules and principles just explained.

Focusing our attention on the birth of Jesus, let us build a scenario about what might have happened in his case. The first possibility, which can be scientifically considered, is that Mary’s unfertilized ovum provided the 23 chromosomes as the mother’s share in the forming of the embryo.

That being so, the question would arise as to how the ovum was fertilized and where did the remaining 23 essential chromosomes come from? It is impossible to suggest that Jesus’ cells had only 23 chromosomes. No human child can be born alive with even 45 chromosomes. Even if a human being was deprived of a single chromosome out of the 46 necessary for the making of all human beings, the result would be something chaotic, if there was anything at all. Scientifically, Mary could not provide the 46 chromosomes alone, 23 had to come from somewhere else.

If God is the father then that presents several options. One; God also has the same chromosomes that humans have, and these must have been transferred somehow to the uterus of Mary. That is unbelievable and unacceptable; if God has the chromosomes of human beings it means he is no longer God. So as a consequence of belief in Jesus as the literal ‘Son’ of God, even the divinity of the Father is jeopardised.

The second possibility is that God created the extra chromosomes as a supernatural phenomenon of creation. In other words, they did not actually belong to the person of God, but were created miraculously. This would automatically lead us to reject Jesus’ relationship to God as one of child and father, and would result in the all embracing relationship of the Universe to God, that is, the relationship of every created being to its Creator."
alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_1.html#pgfId-1006058

Thanks
Continued in next post

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

Continued from previous post:

"Is a Literal Son of God Possible?

Evidently therefore, literal sonship of God is impossible because a literal son must have half the character of his father and half the character of his mother. So another problem surfaces, the son would be half man and half god. But those who believe in the literal sonship, claim and emphasise that Christ was a perfect man and a perfect god.

If the chromosomes were half the required number then we are not left with any problem, no child would be born anyway. Suppose it did happen, that child would only be half a man. Not to mention the missing twenty-three full chromosomes, even a single defective gene within one chromosome can play havoc with a child born with such a congenital defect. He could be blind, limbless, deaf and dumb. The dangers attendant to such a mishap are unlimited. One should be realistic; it is impossible to conceive God as possessing any chromosomes, human or otherwise.

Therefore, with the personal physical contribution of God having been ruled out, if a son were born to Mary with only the human character bearing genes possessed by her ovum, whatever the outcome, he would certainly not be the ‘Son’ of God. At best you can describe that freak of nature as half a man and no more. If the reproductive organs of Mary were like any other female and still the ovum were to fertilize somehow by itself, the maximum one can expect is the creation of something with only half the human characters. It is abominable to call that something the ‘Son’ of God."
alislam.org/library/books…#pgfId-1006058

Thanks

 

[Kitty_Chan]

If God is the father then that presents several options. One; God also has the same chromosomes that humans have, and these must have been transferred somehow to the uterus of Mary. That is unbelievable and unacceptable; if God has the chromosomes of human beings it means he is no longer God. So as a consequence of belief in Jesus as the literal ‘Son’ of God, even the divinity of the Father is jeopardised.

hmm that was a good article.

This part Im wondering about. If its reversed to be God as the source then its not a problem. God wouldnt have our chromosomes. We would have His. Adam came from somewhere. Every creation has part of the designer in it.

It would then be half and half if one wanted to be picky, rather than 100 and 100%. It was brought up before if we share a characteristic from God, not Him to us. We are His children after all.

 

[inJESUS]

I have never heard of this argument before. Do those who advocate it believe Jesus had no human DNA? because if He had, it must have been from Mary…if He hadn’t, it means they believe He is only God, not a human as well, which is a very early heresy opposed by the Church . Corrections?

 

[Windmill]

Jesus could not have inherited only his mother’s gene. Mary, being a female, had two X chromosomes. The Y chromosome, which is necessary for a baby to be male, is inherited from the father only. Therefore, for Jesus to be born male, a Y chromosome had to be created from someone other than Mary.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Guess I got that. Sorry. We Protestants are so shallow.

Ah, come on now, I don’t buy that one bit.

If Protestants were shallow, I personally wouldn’t have had the ability to make the jump from there to here. It was the very best hearts and minds in the Protestant world that opened the doors - pointed the way, to a deeper understanding of the Christian faith, with the help of the Holy Spirit of course.

And back to the topic:

If we believe that God is the original creator of X and Y, why is it such a leap of faith to believe that He provided the Y to Mary’s X? I mean, isn’t that what the supernatural or miracles are, God intervening in the natural course of events to effect a certain outcome?

 

[Red_Meg]

And while this proves absolutely nothing, behind the altar at the nearby center of Opus Dei there is a lovely painting of Our Lady’s Assumption. The “next-door” panel (sorry, I don’t really speak church-architecturese) features Joseph and a young Jesus.

Quite deliberately, the young lad looks strikingly like His holy mother… It makes me smile every time I see it.

Margaret

 

[ClaireS]

Romans 8:3 (King James Version)

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Galatians 4:4
But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law,

John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

John 1:45
Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

Luke 4:22
All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.

Matthew 1:20
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 13:55
"Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?

Mark 6:3
“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

Luke 3:23
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,

at best, Jesus was concieved by the Holy Spirit using newly created DNA of both his parents, only outside the tainted gene pool, but with the pure DNA of both his parents from an supernatural source. Otherwise, you have Mary committing adultry with God himself. Whereas, if Jesus is a special creation, using the pure DNA of both his parents, then no adultry is charged. Those outside the family saw a family resemblence with his Father, Joesph in Jesus. So, Jesus did not get any “corrupt” DNA from Mary, but likely got newly created DNA that matches both his parents.

Since God whom is Spirit has no DNA, it is not likely he had God’s DNA, but had God’s Spirit as part of his makeup.

Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

So, my opinion, and every answer here is just that an opinion, and all are just as good, is that

1. fulness of godhead dwells in his body.
2. Holy Spirit created pure DNA of both parents without any of the defects of either parent - like original sin of Joseph.
3. That Jesus did in fact resemmble his earthly father Joseph.
4. Jesus as second Adam was NOT born with taint of original sin – remember Jesus shares in the glory of his Father and those with the taint of original sin fall short of the glory of God.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Hebrews 4:14-16 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

John 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 Pet. 2:22 “Who (Jesus) committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”.

2 Cor. 5:21 For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.

Isaiah 53:9 (King James Version)

And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Romans 5:12-17 Jesus is the Second Adam, whom like the First Adam was created without the stain of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

It’s like Sister said…“It’s a mystery.”

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

And for that other post about “why the perpetual virginity is important [matters]” We have Daniel Marsh … Jesus is the child of Mary and Joseph - just that God brought their DNA together - not sullied by fornication, I guess …

It is beliefs like this that matter … this turning away from the constant Christian beliefs will lead to well … we have the example …

Since when is sex in marriage a sin?

Many Jewish people have relations in that part of the marriage, and it was NOT fornication.

Jewish Marriage Customs

Those who live in the modern western world do not catch the full significance of Jesus’ promise. This is due to the fact that in His promise Jesus was drawing an analogy from Jewish marriage customs in biblical times. Since this is so, those marriage customs must be examined if one is to grasp the significance of the promise.

The first major step in a Jewish marriage was betrothal.1 Betrothal involved the establishment of a marriage covenant. By Jesus’ time it was usual for such a covenant to be established as the result of the prospective bridegroom taking the initiative.2 The prospective bridegroom would travel from his father’s house to the home of the prospective bride. There he would negotiate with the father of the young woman to determine the price (mohar) that he must pay to purchase his bride.3 Once the bridegroom paid the purchase price, the marriage covenant was thereby established, and the young man and woman were regarded to be husband and wife.4 From that moment on the bride was declared to be consecrated or sanctified, set apart exclusively for her bridegroom.5 As a symbol of the covenant relationship that had been established, the groom and bride would drink from a cup of wine over which a betrothal benediction had been pronounced.6

After the marriage covenant had been established, the groom would leave the home of the bride and return to his father’s house. There he would remain separate from his bride for a period of twelve months.7 This period of separation afforded the bride time to gather her trousseau and to prepare for married life.8 The groom occupied himself with the preparation of living accommodations in his father’s house to which he could bring his bride.

At the end of the period of separation the groom would come to take his bride to live with him. The taking of the bride usually took place at night. The groom, best man and other male escorts would leave the groom’s father’s house and conduct a torch light procession to the home of the bride.9 Although the bride was expecting her groom to come for her, she did not know the exact time of his coming.10 As a result the groom’s arrival would be preceded by a shout.11 This shout would forewarn the bride to be prepared for the coming of the groom.

After the groom received his bride together with her female attendants, the enlarged wedding party would return from the bride’s home to the groom’s father’s house.12 Upon arrival there the wedding party would find that the wedding guests had assembled already.

biblestudymanuals.net/jewish_marriage_customs.htm

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Dear Luvlife,

In one of the posting of this thread, it was correctly mentioned that Jesus is 100% God and 100% human. If we take Jesus in human side, take a look of Genesis 3:15. From the verse, we can conclude that humanly speaking, Jesus carried a part of Mary’s DNA, but not Joseph’s.

Genesis 3:15 is not even messianic in nature. In context, it is speaking to Satan, about diffuculties between the offspring of Adam and Eve with Satan. In fact, in Romans, Satan is bruised under the feet of Christians by God. And, nowhere in scripture are we informed that Mary’s heel was injured or bruised.

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

I heard somewhere that Original Sin is supposed to be passed on by the father, which is why it could never have affected Jesus.

If Jesus did not have Mary’s DNA he would not have been created as a man but only have pretended to become man. He would have been two separate persons.

This sounds like the Nestorian heresy of the 5th century which led to the Council of Ephesus where Mary was declared to be Theotokos ie “Mother of God.”

The first Adam was made without sin, so it is no problem for the second Adam to also be made without sin.

Romans 8:3 (King James Version)

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

1. that which has been made after the likeness of something

a) a figure, image, likeness, representation

b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity

cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=3667

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Jesus could not have inherited only his mother’s gene. Mary, being a female, had two X chromosomes. The Y chromosome, which is necessary for a baby to be male, is inherited from the father only. Therefore, for Jesus to be born male, a Y chromosome had to be created from someone other than Mary.

And, since Mary was legally married to Joseph, it makes sense to clone those genes after his pattern. Both Mary’s and Joseph’s genes for that matter can be cloned. this is all specuation as I said before. And, if God can make Jesus as a special creation, cloning those genes of his parents, then he can make those genes pure, without sin.