Did Jesus have siblings?

[AshleyBelle]

This is one of the most common questions I’ve heard arise when people are questioning the Church teaching about Mary’s perpetual virginity.

Most will refer to the passage where Jesus is told his mother and brothers are asking for Him. The best reply I’ve heard for that argument, is the fact that the original language had no distinction between 'brother, sister, " and “cousin” or other relatives.

The arguments ussually go in circles, and non Catholic Christians aren’t satisfied because they don’t adhere to the idea of Sacred Tradition being as true and important as scripture.

Today I was teaching my son the song “immaculate Mary” (He was doing really well I might add! He actually gets the “salve salve, salve Regina” part much more clearly than the english words lol)… And I started thinking about all the objections lately about our beliefs concerning the blessed Mother. It saddens me so much to hear so much rejection of her from other Christians, especially during the Christmas season!

And this thought came to mind.. How would I respond if somebody tried to convince me that Jesus had other siblings?

Well… in addition to the fact that “brother and sister” could have very well meant “cousin” or “relative” (and I think somebody posted a while back that we actually know exactly which relatives were being referred to?)… Why do we not hear of these siblings during the passion of our Lord?

I mean think about it… At His last moments, Jesus doesn’t say to his “sibling” “Behold, your Mother!” … He says it to the disciple whom He loved.

If He really did have siblings, wouldn't they be responsible for their Mother? Why didn't He say "brother and sister, please take care of our Mother?"  Why are these siblings never named?

So in short… I don’t mean to cause discension, but this is one of the subject I hear so often when people reject Mary as the Mother of the Church, immaculately concieved, perpetual virgin, and Queen of heaven.

Thoughts?

 

[Rightlydivide]

I understand that you do not think he had half-brothers and sisters. The names are:

Mat 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this [man] all these things?

Lets not debate that part but lets talk about what happened at the cross.
IF you do not believe they were his half brothers, the earliest existing tradition from the 2nd century says there were Joseph’s children. So you freely admit that her own step-children were not there for her despite the fact we know she travelled with them previously

Mat 12:46-50 While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee

So according to our guys own standards her nephews (cousins of the Lord but that is later than the step children theory) or step children were not there…and yet you want to use the same argument to say the biological children were not there…

 

[NDfan]

This is one of the most common questions I’ve heard arise when people are questioning the Church teaching about Mary’s perpetual virginity.

Most will refer to the passage where Jesus is told his mother and brothers are asking for Him. The best reply I’ve heard for that argument, is the fact that the original language had no distinction between 'brother, sister, " and “cousin” or other relatives.

The arguments ussually go in circles, and non Catholic Christians aren’t satisfied because they don’t adhere to the idea of Sacred Tradition being as true and important as scripture.

Today I was teaching my son the song “immaculate Mary” (He was doing really well I might add! He actually gets the “salve salve, salve Regina” part much more clearly than the english words lol)… And I started thinking about all the objections lately about our beliefs concerning the blessed Mother. It saddens me so much to hear so much rejection of her from other Christians, especially during the Christmas season!

And this thought came to mind.. How would I respond if somebody tried to convince me that Jesus had other siblings?

Well… in addition to the fact that “brother and sister” could have very well meant “cousin” or “relative” (and I think somebody posted a while back that we actually know exactly which relatives were being referred to?)… Why do we not hear of these siblings during the passion of our Lord?

I mean think about it… At His last moments, Jesus doesn’t say to his “sibling” “Behold, your Mother!” … He says it to the disciple whom He loved.

If He really did have siblings, wouldn't they be responsible for their Mother? Why didn't He say "brother and sister, please take care of our Mother?"  Why are these siblings never named?

So in short… I don’t mean to cause discension, but this is one of the subject I hear so often when people reject Mary as the Mother of the Church, immaculately concieved, perpetual virgin, and Queen of heaven.

Thoughts?

Ashley this topic has been discussed here so many times as you can probably imagine.

In short Christ didn’t ask his siblings to care for HIS mother because they probably didn’t even show up to the crucifixion. They were non-believers as I’m sure you’ve heard and read. The major problem with the argument that they were Jesus cousins is the use of the word Adelphos which means from the same womb. We know that the word gets used to refer to countrymen but if you study Greek you will see that when Adelphos is used to refer to a brother in referring to family it means literally brother. So in the case of Matthew 12:46 for example we read the following:

While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.

If brother referred to cousins there the Greek word suggenes would be used as we see in Mark 6. Some argue the fact that the Gospel writers wrote in Koine Greek which is different than regular Greek but that’s not the case in this instance. It’s exactly the same.

Overall it seems Roman Catholics view any Christian as being disrespectful if they deny any doctrines of Mary. I say let’s not worry about it and focus on Christ. It certainly doesn’t diminish the respect and admiration I personally have for Mary.

PEACE

 

[Ag_not]

…And this thought came to mind… How would I respond if somebody tried to convince me that Jesus had other siblings?

Well, it kinda depends on how many other siblings you had in mind

Look at Acts 1:14-15

14
All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, **together with some women, **and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
15
During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the **brothers **(there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place).

120 brothers and sisters

Verse 13 tells us that : Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James - were there.

So if you knock off about 20 or so for Mary, the apostles, and the '‘some women, it means Jesus’ 100 brothers were there. That’s what the Bible says.

My poor Mother

Mary wasn’t a perpetual virgin, she was perpetually pregnant with twins and triplets



(I love our Blessed Mother Mary and I’m sure She knows I mean no disrespect by my sense of humour )

 

[Rightlydivide]

Well, it kinda depends on how many other siblings you had in mind

Look at Acts 1:14-15

14
All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, **together with some women, **and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
15
During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the **brothers **(there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place).

Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren( ἀδελφός adelphos)

Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples ( μαθητής mathētēs)
(, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

I have no idea what translation you are using but the 120 refers to DISCIPLES- μαθητής mathētēs)

and not just the brothers of Jesus.

 

[Henning]

Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren( ἀδελφός adelphos)

Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples ( μαθητής mathētēs)
(, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

I have no idea what translation you are using but the 120 refers to DISCIPLES- μαθητής mathētēs)

and not just the brothers of Jesus.

NAB and DRB and GNT UBS-4

DRB (based on Latin)
‘fratribus’ in 1:14…brethren
‘fratrum’ in 1:15…brethren

NAB (based on Greek)
GNT (UBS4, Metzger et al)
αδελφοις in 1:14…brothers
αδελφων in 1:15…brothers

‘brethren’ is found in english copies based on the Textus Receptus. No scholar uses the TR anymore.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Scholars in Association of Theological Schools? Resurrection and Virgin Birth denying scholars?
Of course scholars use the TR.
Wescott and Hort aside…
The brothers traveling with Mary cannot be conclusively stated to be the 120. If you want to go that route, a word with so many meanings cannot be conclusively stated to mean the same in each usage…

 

[rolltidefan]

Well, first of all, I am protestant and we obviously believe that Jesus had siblings. BUT with that being said, this is one of those topics that I see as so what if he did or if he didn’t. I don’t see how Mary having a marital relationship with her husband or having other children reduces what a great woman she was. As a protestant, we do believe in the virgin birth. We believe that Mary was not with her husband, Joseph, until after the birth of Jesus. Anyway, it has just always confused me how Mary going on and having a relation with her husband or having other children for that matter, lessons the fact that Jesus is who he is or even that it makes Mary any less of a blessed woman. Obviously, she was a very important woman, as was Jospeh a very important man. However, neither died for me and my sins. Again, this is just one of those topics that I think is great for discussion and debate, but I have just never understood why it really mattered, it doesn’t decrease Jesus, Mary or Joseph in my eyes.

 

[Henning]

Scholars in Association of Theological Schools? Resurrection and Virgin Birth denying scholars?
Of course scholars use the TR.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Here check out this link…hope you can read German and Greek
bibelwissenschaft.de/online-bibeln/novum-testamentum-graece-na-27/lesen-im-bibeltext/bibelstelle/apg/cache/a6b00b97c8/
NA27…you have heard of Nestle and the Alands work right.

The brothers traveling with Mary cannot be conclusively stated to be the 120. If you want to go that route, a word with so many meanings cannot be conclusively stated to mean the same in each usage.

.
The rhm in Acts 1:15 is αδελφων…how are you going to translate it…what meaning are you going to give it.

 

[Henning]

You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Rightlydivide,
Sorry for being harsh…

H

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

I was making research for **Jesus’ siblings **in the Wikipedia. There is no article on it; but in the lower portions some references were given, in which one entry was mentioned as “The Lost Tomb of Jesus”. I opened the entry and while reading into it I found under the sub-heading “Ossuary inscriptions”:

Yehuda bar Yeshua, Possibly Aramaic for “Judah son of Jesus”

It is interesting. Isn’t it? I thought I should share this information with the friends/members here.

Now with this information, a question comes into my mind; would this son of Jesus be sinless or sinful according to Catholics and Protestants?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

 

[Rightlydivide]

You ask me if I have read Nestle-Aland after I have referenced Wescott-Hort?

 

[Jimmy_B]

I understand that you do not think he had half-brothers and sisters. The names are:

Lets not debate that part but lets talk about what happened at the cross.
IF you do not believe they were his half brothers, the earliest existing tradition from the 2nd century says there were Joseph’s children. So you freely admit that her own step-children were not there for her despite the fact we know she travelled with them previously

So according to our guys own standards her nephews (cousins of the Lord but that is later than the step children theory) or step children were not there…and yet you want to use the same argument to say the biological children were not there…

The verse that you quoted said that Jesus was the “carpenter’s son”…is that what you believe? I hope not, because Jesus is the Son of God, not the son of a carpenter. Your verses do no show in any way, what so ever that Jesus had any biological brothers or step brothers. Any beliefs like this are extra-biblical speculation!

 

[adelore]

Hi

I was making research for **Jesus’ siblings **in the Wikipedia. There is no article on it; but in the lower portions some references were given, in which one entry was mentioned as “The Lost Tomb of Jesus”. I opened the entry and while reading into it I found under the sub-heading “Ossuary inscriptions”:

Yehuda bar Yeshua, Possibly Aramaic for “Judah son of Jesus”

It is interesting. Isn’t it? I thought I should share this information with the friends/members here.

Now with this information, a question comes into my mind; would this son of Jesus be sinless or sinful according to Catholics and Protestants?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks

The other day I was reading in the OT and the name Jesus was used for someone else. From my understanding, the name Jesus wasn’t just our Lords name. Other’s had the name of Jesus too. (not in the new Testament of course)

For years many mexicans name their sons names Jesus pronouced HaZeus. (don’t know if the spelling is correct.)

I have bought the book you are refering to in a Truck Stop. It caught my eye and I was wondering about it. I haven’t read it yet…so I can’t comment on the contents.

I can understand your view point. If Jesus did have brothers and Sisters and if Mary did/or would have had a material realtion with Joseph it wouldn’t change anything. It would not lesson Mary being Blessed or Full of Grace From God. And you are right it wouldn’t lesson the fact that Jesus was Gods One and Only Son.

Sometimes I take it a step further in my mind. Now let’s take a look ast Joseph for a moment. The angle comes to him and tells him to take Mary as his wife because the child she is carring is from the Holy Spirit, Gods Son. Wow what a shock that had to have been. The Angle goes on to tell Joseph why. From that point on surely Joseph must have looked at Mary in a different point of view. After all she was carring Gods Son and was pure. Wow even back then that had to have been awsome to Joseph.

Then the Angles tell him where to move the Chid and His Mother. Talk about looking at your wife and Jesus in a whole new light, not to mention how over whelming it must have been when Jesus was born and all that took place there.

Now looking at Mary from Josephs point of view. One she was carring Gods Son. (surely something must have told him, that this indeed was a Holy Woman, unlike any other Woman in the World) Then she brought forth Gods One and Only Son. Can you even picture how Joseph felt. The Awsome things going on around him. The Holyness of it all. Truely after the “Visits” from the Angles ect.

I believe that Joseph was so drawn in to all the Holyness and the purpose of Jesus birth, that the thought of even having material relationships with Mary, after being a wittness to all this was the last thing on his mind.

If we take a look from Josephs viewpoint of all of this…Truely this man was a Godly Man. I just find it hard to believe that Joseph would want to “touch” a Holy Woman, as Mary in a material relationship. I truely believe after all Joseph wittnessed with Mary and Jesus a sexual desire for a woman who carried and gave birth to Gods Son, was the last thing on Josephs mind.

 

[Roamin_Xian]

The verse that you quoted said that Jesus was the “carpenter’s son”…is that what you believe? I hope not, because Jesus is the Son of God, not the son of a carpenter. Your verses do no show in any way, what so ever that Jesus had any biological brothers or step brothers. Any beliefs like this are extra-biblical speculation!

Of course they show he had biological brothers! Let me ask you this- why would the verse state the father of Jesus, the mother of Jesus, but then JUST some cousins? They obviously refer to actual siblings.

Mat 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this [man] all these things?

 

[Jimmy_B]

Of course they show he had biological brothers! Let me ask you this- why would the verse state the father of Jesus, the mother of Jesus, but then JUST some cousins? They obviously refer to actual siblings.

I suggest that you read the Bible, because all of the so-called “brothers of Jesus” named in the verse that you provided, can be clearly identified in the Bible, including, who their parents are and they are not Joseph or the Virgin Mary.

One encounters this problem, when looking at the Bible…one verse at a time and not in context.

Read and Study the Bible….All of it….In Context!

Peace

 

[NDfan]

I suggest that you read the Bible, because all of the so-called “brothers of Jesus” named in the verse that you provided, can be clearly identified in the Bible, including, who their parents are and they are not Joseph or the Virgin Mary.

One encounters this problem, when looking at the Bible…one verse at a time and not in context.

Read and Study the Bible….All of it….In Context!

Peace

Jimmy we’ve had this conversation so much here and you always repeat yourself. You simply cannot identify the parents of the siblings named by reading and studying the bible. You can guess that they might be but then you have to prove that the children being referred are the exact same ones. This you just cannot do.

You always say study the Bible. Well let’s study the Bible in Koine Greek to really dig into what it is saying. Koine Greek never references a brother or sister following the naming of a parent to refer to cousins. So in Mark 3:31:

31 And his mother and his brothers (adelphos) came, and standing outside they sent to him and called him.

The Greek here will always mean literal brothers and or sisters not cousins. You have to look at the construction of the sentence. Nor does the Koine Greek refer to cousins when writing about any brother/brother brother/sister etc. relationship. Look at Mark 1:16

Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother (adelphos) casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

By your logic this could mean cousin when in fact Koine Greek would use the word suggenes to name this relationship. So if we both agree that Simon and Andrew were actual brothers in this verse then why would the Gospel writers use the same wording when referring to Jesus siblings

We would then have to argue that Simon and Andrew would have been cousins, James and John were cousins etc. etc. No true sibling relationship could ever be established using your interpretation. You need to get away from what you have been taught and look at an exegetical construction of the text. It’s not just the words in Koine Greek but it’s the construction of the sentence. So much more goes into interpretation than just reading the words.

PEACE

 

[Peter_J]

Well, first of all, I am protestant and we obviously believe that Jesus had siblings. BUT with that being said, this is one of those topics that I see as so what if he did or if he didn’t. I don’t see how Mary having a marital relationship with her husband or having other children reduces what a great woman she was.

The thing is that we, as Catholics, can’t simply pretend that the Council of Trent didn’t happen.

 

[Rightlydivide]

The verse that you quoted said that Jesus was the “carpenter’s son”…is that what you believe? I hope not, because Jesus is the Son of God, not the son of a carpenter. Your verses do no show in any way, what so ever that Jesus had any biological brothers or step brothers. Any beliefs like this are extra-biblical speculation!

I believe that is what they said.
I believe that he was the husband of Mary and the earthly father of Jesus. That I have no reason to believe that everyone knew his exact origins, especially the crowd that was yelling.
But I have limited my involvement on this thread to other areas.
By the way, this cousin theory is much later developing…if you want to say they are step-brothers, you would have some patristic support from the second and third century…cousins is fourth century…but I am not TRYING to have THAT discussion.

 

[Roamin_Xian]

I suggest that you read the Bible, because all of the so-called “brothers of Jesus” named in the verse that you provided, can be clearly identified in the Bible, including, who their parents are and they are not Joseph or the Virgin Mary.

One encounters this problem, when looking at the Bible…one verse at a time and not in context.

Read and Study the Bible….All of it….In Context!

Peace

So for everyone else in the Bible except Jesus, the term “brother” does not literally mean brother? I don’t deny that “brother” has been used in terms of comradeship, but this context doesn’t provide for the “cousin” claim.

C’mon. “Is that not his family?” people were asking. Why would a bunch of cousins be living in His house with his known parents?