Did Jesus have siblings?

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I believe the first question was answered but the second might need a little more addressing…
“Is not this the carpenter’s son?,” the Jews asked, “is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are thy not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?” (Matt. 13: 55, 56).
People who are quoting this to contest the Catholic belief in Jesus being Mary’s only child, use the words of people who are denying God.

Which really shows the source of thought process. If you need to quote those who are denying the divinity of Jesus and use that to further your position, then you are directly agreeing with people who are blaspheming God.

Do we follow the words of those who blaspheme God as truth? This is like agreeing with the thief who mocked Jesus on the cross. (see Jesus isn’t God, He didn’t come down off the cross)

Pointing this out to people usually lets them see how sinful a thought this is, and will get them to think about the motivation behind this sort of objection.

God Bless
Scylla
 
A fundamentalist said this to me that:

Some argue that the word “brothers,” found in this passage, merely means relatives such as cousins. If that is the true intended meaning, then one must wonder why the Greek word meaning “cousin” (anepsios) was not used there as it was in Col. 4:10:
No Word for Cousin

Because neither Hebrew nor Aramaic (the language spoken by Christ and his disciples) had a special word meaning “cousin,” speakers of those languages could use either the word for “brother” or a circumlocution, such as “the son of my uncle.” But circumlocutions are clumsy, so the Jews often used “brother.”

The writers of the New Testament were brought up using the Aramaic equivalent of “brothers” to mean both cousins and sons of the same father—plus other relatives and even non-relatives. When they wrote in Greek, they did the same thing the translators of the Septuagint did. (The Septuagint was the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible; it was translated by Hellenistic Jews a century or two before Christ’s birth and was the version of the Bible from which most of the Old Testament quotations found in the New Testament are taken.)

In the Septuagint the Hebrew word that includes both brothers and cousins was translated as adelphos, which in Greek usually has the narrow meaning that the English “brother” has. Unlike Hebrew or Aramaic, Greek has a separate word for cousin, anepsios, but the translators of the Septuagint used adelphos, even for true cousins.

You might say they transliterated instead of translated, importing the Jewish idiom into the Greek Bible. They took an exact equivalent of the Hebrew word for “brother” and did not use* adelphos* in one place (for sons of the same parents), and anepsios in another (for cousins). This same usage was employed by the writers of the New Testament and passed into English translations of the Bible. To determine what “brethren” or “brother” or “sister” means in any one verse, we have to look at the context. When we do that, we see that insuperable problems arise if we assume that Mary had children other than Jesus.

When the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her that she would conceive a son, she asked, “How can this be since I have no relations with a man?” (Luke 1:34). From the Church’s earliest days, as the Fathers interpreted this Bible passage, Mary’s question was taken to mean that she had made a vow of lifelong virginity, even in marriage. (This was not common, but neither was it unheard of.) If she had not taken such a vow, the question would make no sense.

Mary knew how babies are made (otherwise she wouldn’t have asked the question she did). If she had anticipated having children in the normal way and did not intend to maintain a vow of virginity, she would hardly have to ask “how” she was to have a child, since conceiving a child in the “normal” way would be expected by a newlywed wife. Her question makes sense only if there was an apparent (but not a real) conflict between keeping a vow of virginity and acceding to the angel’s request. A careful look at the New Testament shows that Mary kept her vow of virginity and never had any children other than Jesus.

When Jesus was found in the Temple at age twelve, the context suggests that he was the only son of Mary and Joseph. There is no hint in this episode of any other children in the family (Luke 2:41–51). Jesus grew up in Nazareth, and the people of Nazareth referred to him as “the son of Mary” (Mark 6:3), not as “a son of Mary.” In fact, others in the Gospels are never referred to as Mary’s sons, not even when they are called Jesus’ “brethren.” If they were in fact her sons, this would be strange usage.

Also, the attitude taken by the “brethren of the Lord” implies they are his elders. In ancient and, particularly, in Eastern societies (remember, Palestine is in Asia), older sons gave advice to younger, but younger seldom gave advice to older—it was considered disrespectful to do so. But we find Jesus’ “brethren” saying to him that Galilee was no place for him and that he should go to Judea so he could make a name for himself (John 7:3–4).

Another time, they sought to restrain him for his own benefit: “And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, ‘He is beside himself’” (Mark 3:21). This kind of behavior could make sense for ancient Jews only if the “brethren” were older than Jesus, but that alone eliminates them as his biological brothers, since Jesus was Mary’s “first-born” son (Luke 2:7).

Consider what happened at the foot of the cross. When he was dying, Jesus entrusted his mother to the apostle John (John 19:26–27). The Gospels mention four of his “brethren”: James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. It is hard to imagine why Jesus would have disregarded family ties and made this provision for his mother if these four were also her sons.
 
Since your friend is a fundamentalist, he might not be completely convinced by all of the Aramaic/Greek issues contained in the arguments above. However, he does believe scripture. Give him the following:

Brothers of Jesus, Not Sons of Mary

Many non-Catholics deny the Perpetual Virginity of Mary by referring to passages of scripture that mention the “brothers” of Jesus. A rigorous analysis of scripture, however, proves their position is false. Consider the following:
  1. Jesus had a “brother” named James.
    "Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?” (Matthew 13:55)
  2. James, the Lord’s “brother”, is an apostle.
    “Then, after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. (Galatians 1:18-19)
  3. There are two apostles named James.
    “When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.” (Luke 6:13-16)
  4. One James (the brother of John) is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his father is Zebedee.
    James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder)” (Mark 3:17)
  5. The other apostle named James is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his father is Alpheus.
    “And when it was day, he called his disciples, and chose from them twelve, whom he called apostles: Simon, whom he named Peter and Andrew his brother, and James and John and Philip and Bartholomew, and Matthew and James the son of Alpheus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, and Judas the son of James and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.” (Luke 6:13-16)
  6. Therefore, neither apostle named James was a uterine brother of Jesus.
  7. The man named Joseph (or Joses) is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his brother is James, and his father is Alpheus.
    “Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.” (Matthew 27:55-56)
  8. Jude (also called Thaddeus) is not a uterine brother of Jesus because he is a brother of James.
    “Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James” (Jude 1)
  9. Judas is not a uterine brother of Jesus because he is the son of James.
    "When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. (Acts 1:13)
  10. While Matthew 15:35 declares James, Joseph and Judas to be the “brothers” of Jesus, it has been demonstrated from scripture that they are NOT uterine brothers of the Lord. From this, it is apparent that scripture must be using the term “brothers” to mean relatives other than sons of Mary.
 
Now I know in the Gospels there are referrals to Jesus having brothers and sisters, but reading the defence put on the website on this matter is not still clear to me. Jesus’ siblings are cousins since there is no word for cousin back then, but read this quote

And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. (Luke 1:36)

Now luke specifically relates Mary and Elizabeth as cousins, why could not Matthew use the word ‘cousins’ instead of brothers and sisters if they were in fact Jesus’ cousins.

“Is not this the carpenter’s son?,” the Jews asked, “is not his mother called Mary? And his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are thy not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?” (Matt. 13: 55, 56).

This has bothered me since I recently watched part 1 of a two part series documentary called ‘The real family of Jesus’ where an expert Geneologist was tracking down our Lord’s supposable brothers and sisters while revealing the true identities of Jesus’ family as first century Jews.
actual borthers and sisters? no. did he have a cousin? yes. John the Baptist.
 
It’s not that there was no word for cousin back then (there was in Aramaic, even if not in Hebrew, and there definitely was in Greek), it’s that the Jews had a clan-based system. I don’t know all the details of theirs, but it’s pretty routine in such systems to address all members of one’s own clan as brother.

Sometimes there are variations. Navajo Indians, for instance, are matrilineal (they belong to their mother’s clan), and so address the members of that clan as “brother” (or sister, or mother–maternal aunts are mothers, to the Navajo). Members of their father’s clan are “cousin.” “Cousin,” i.e. “member of my father’s clan,” is also the Navajo equivalent of “buddy.”

It’s possible that “Cousin” referred to members of other branches of the clan–one’s own branch is brothers, while other branches are cousin. I don’t know for sure, but that seems the likeliest interpretation to me. After all, it says Elizabeth was Mary’s kinswoman, but it doesn’t say what the relationship was, I don’t believe.
 
Any actual brothers and sisters…No…however, He did tell us that whoever does the will of His Father, is His brother and sister.
 
[/INDENT]2. James, the Lord’s “brother”, is an apostle.
Yes
[/INDENT]3. There are two apostles named James.
You do realize there are more apostles than the twelve disciples right? That throws everything else you quote off.
[/INDENT]6. Therefore, neither apostle named James was a uterine brother of Jesus.
Well since we know that the Apostles are not just limited to the 12. That would be incorrect.
 
It’s not that there was no word for cousin back then (there was in Aramaic, even if not in Hebrew, and there definitely was in Greek.
I am not a scholar of languages, but I feel fairly certain this is incorrect.

EVERY article I have ever read on this subject affirms that Hebrew and its derivative, Aramaic, have no word for relations such as cousins, nephews, etc.

Greek does, but when the Jews said, “Are not his brothers James, Joses…etc”, they were speaking Aramaic. The authors of the Gospels then wrote exactly what the Jews said using the Greek word for “brothers” since the original speakers had said “brothers”.

But we can figure out that cousins (or other non-uterine) relations is what they meant by doing a little more digging.
 
This must be a joke right??? Do you have any clue what you are talking about??? There were numerous disciples…yet only 12 Apostles!!!

We ALL know the apostles are limited to the 12…Therefore you are incorrect.

Do the United Methodists have access to secret scriptures that Catholics do not?
Yes

You do realize there are more apostles than the twelve disciples right? That throws everything else you quote off.

Well since we know that the Apostles are not just limited to the 12. That would be incorrect.
 
Yes

You do realize there are more apostles than the twelve disciples right? That throws everything else you quote off.

Well since we know that the Apostles are not just limited to the 12. That would be incorrect.
Using the lists of apostles provided in Matthew, Mark, and Luke - or any other New Testament text you like, please provide a complete list of men who were named Apostles by Jesus.

Seperately, list any other men who were concerned Apostles within the pages of the New Testament.
 
This must be a joke right??? Do you have any clue what you are talking about??? There were numerous disciples…yet only 12 Apostles!!!

newadvent.org/cathen/01626c.htm

*In the Epistle to the Hebrews (iii, 1) the name is applied even to Christ, in the original meaning of a delegate sent from God to preach revealed truth to the world.
The word Apostle has also in the New Testament a larger meaning, and denotes some inferior disciples who, under the direction of the Apostles, preached the Gospel, or contributed to its diffusion; thus Barnabas (Acts 14:4, 14), probably Andronicus and Junias (Romans 16:7), Epaphroditus (Phil., ii, 25), *
We ALL know the apostles are limited to the 12…Therefore you are incorrect.
 
probably Andronicus and Junias (Romans 16:7), Epaphroditus (Phil., ii, 25)
I stand corrected.

I missed these three which is actually a good thing since I have been arguing elsewhere for an expanding church and the biblical basis for Apostolic Succession.

I’m delighted to find more men who were in leadership at the apostle/Bishop level. It makes it harder for “Apostolicity” to have “died out” when other men besides the original twelve were obviously being ordained to this office.

🙂
 
Well what do the scripture indicate on this matter.

In matthew 1:25, There is some strange wording for sure.
And Joseph knew her not until the she bore the child…As this word is inspired by the Holy Spirt and in fact it supports the virgin birth of Jesus. But there is also implyed that Jesus knew his wife ( sex ).
Again in Luke 2:7 she gave birth to her first born son. Again it implys that there are other children.
Other scriptures that indicate the indeed Jesus had brothers and sisters. are Mark 3:21, 31 -35. John 7:5
The greek word for brother is “adelphos” this word is used to denote blood lintage of origin as pertaining to family. The word of God seem very clear on the fact that Jesus had brothers and even sisters.
Now that i have really got you steaming. lets close it
with: “Let not them that wait on thee, O Lord GOD of hosts, be ashamed for my sake: let not those that seek thee be confounded for my sake, O God of Israel. Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face. I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and **an alien unto **my mother’s children. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.” -Psalm 69: 6-9
So in conclusion indeed mary had kids and there were 7 total including Jesus.

Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Later, in Galatians 1:19, it mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood siblings. Now as the greek word for sister can’t really be confused as the greek word that was used is “adelhhe” and it means full, own, natural, sister. Were as the greek word for brother can mean brother or cousin.
Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother." (Galatians 1:18-19)
So not only do we know that Jesus in fact did have brother and sisters we also know Mary is not a virgin after the birth of Jesus, as she has had 7 children that we know of. So much for the “immaculate conception”.
Many people teach that mary was pure and sinless. No she was just a favored child. I will agree that she is very blessed and honored in being allowed to give birth to Jesus. yeat i will tell you this God created man and woman and he gave them the ability to bring forth children as a blessing. So as God has highly favored Mary and Joseph if they did not produce many children they actually would be living under the curse of barreness. Which so many in the bible we find being strickened with. There is nothing unholy with a man having his wife. That is called a holy marriage. But there is something wrong with deneying the scripture of God and the fact is that is what the teaching of “immaculate conception is” it is wrong. Mary was a nornal girl born in a normal way and the scriptures never indicate she is immaculate in anyway. She was a mother and a wife and i am sure was great at both. She was a serogate. Used of God as he willed you know he is God.
 
EVERY article I have ever read on this subject affirms that Hebrew and its derivative, Aramaic, have no word for relations such as cousins, nephews, etc.
OK, first off, Aramaic is not derived from Hebrew. Aramaic is the language of the Assyrian empire, and after it, the Persian (and after it, the Alexandrian, in the East anyway). The Assyrians regarded the Hebrews as an odd, backward people living on their western border.

Second off, Aramaic has such a larger vocabulary than Hebrew that Modern Hebrew has borrowed from it extensively, from the time of the Talmud on.
Brothers of Jesus, Not Sons of Mary
Actually, I hadn’t thought of that. Tradition says Joseph was much older than Mary–he could have been a widower, with children from a previous marriage.

I do still think “brothers” refers to clan-relatives of some kind, not “cousins” as we understand the word. I somehow doubt the Jews used the same kinship system as the Greeks or Romans.
 
Joseph Smith,

You are in error as to the scriptures. My cousin Mike was my Aunt’s first born. He was the eldest of four chidren and the only son. He was also my Aunt’s only child by blood as my three [girl] cousins were all adopted.

An only child is rightfully called the first born as “first” only depicts the initial place in the sibling order and has no bearing whatsoever upon any children that may or may not] follow.

Similarly the word until has no impact upon what follows. Its restrictive quality is only past tense. I might tell you that I will not retire from my job until I reach my 65th birthday however, I am not abliged to reture at 65. I could work to the age of 70 or 90 and not make the statement that I would not retire until I reach the age of 65 a llie. However, if I retired at age 64 then the statement would not be true.

Similarly, in scripture there is a reference that from the death of “Moses until this day” no one knows where Moses is buried. The people did not know after that day either and in fact no one knows yet [whic could read until 23 January 2007]where Moses is buried.

That Joseph had no relations to Mary until the birth of Jesus is only a reference to the past; the time before Jesus’ birth. It in no way reflects upon what transpires after the event.

Similarly, as others have stated, a woman espoused to be married would not ask “how can this be…?” when told they were going to bear a son [future tense]. They would assume that they would have children in the natural coarse of events unless there was a reason to not expect to have children. Like a vow of celebacy, which as others have noted was not unheard of.

The practice is noted in the old testament, where a girl in her fathers house could make the vow and if her father let the vow go un challenged by him had to allow the consecration to stand. If he failed to hold her vow and forced her to break her vow he was guilty before the Lord. The same held true for a woman who made the vow and her husband did not immediate repuddiate her, the vow stood. If he then forcecd her to have relations, he was guilty before the Lord.

The Qumran scrolls of the Essenes [some scholars believe John the Baptist and [erhaps others of Jesus’ followers [Mary?] may have been Essenes or a similar sect] describe similar practices. We might find this lifestyle strange being overly “sexed” culturally but many sociaties have people who practice celebacy through the ages, even today, though that be more rare…
 
I stand corrected.

I missed these three which is actually a good thing since I have been arguing elsewhere for an expanding church and the biblical basis for Apostolic Succession.

I’m delighted to find more men who were in leadership at the apostle/Bishop level. It makes it harder for “Apostolicity” to have “died out” when other men besides the original twelve were obviously being ordained to this office.

🙂
Actually, if you go to the Greek, Roman 16: 7 is 'Greet Andronicus and JUNIA (female, not Junias, male), kinspeople (NRSV say kinsmen, but the greek, goes to plural, masculine preference as it would in any male/female combination)… who are notable among the Apostles. Yup, that’s Junia. Personally I find it delightful to find a named woman who was in leadership at the apostle/bishop level 🙂 .
 
Gospels there are referrals to Jesus having brothers and sisters, but reading the defence put on the website on this matter is not still clear to me. Jesus’ siblings are cousins since there is no word for cousin back then,
For me, I like the Orthodox view that Mary was a consecrated Virgin. Consistent with the tradition of the day, young virgins concecrated to the temple were assigned an older man as custodian, whose job it was to make sure wanton males did not harrass or try to compromise them.

These custodians were holy men whose reputation was impeccable. They were often men who had raised a family, become widowers and spent the rest of their years in the service of the temple.

It seems Joseph was a lot older than Mary, it may be the case he was a widower, St James the greater is believed to be one of Joseph’s sons. He is also referred to as ‘the brother of the Lord’., Presumably ‘the greater’ because there was also ‘St James the less’ who was not.

If that is the case then Joseph would have been not her husband but her custodian. I rather like that and it appears to fit rather nicely.

Either way, I do not believe His Blessed Mother knew of sexual pleasure. It is my absolute faith and belief she did not. I actually am very offended by the suggestion she knew of sexual pleasure. Sorry but it makes me cry.

I am convinced beyond all doubt she is absolutely pure. That she died as she had lived, a virgin.

Holy Mother of God pray for us in our understanding
 
Some one said that they find it offensive that Mary might have had sex. lol I will assure you Mary had a mid wife also. Woman have no privacy. You know. I find it offensive that people are adding to the word of God. The word of God is more then clear that Mary has children and how. The word of God is profitable for the casting down of imagaination.
How do you think Jesus got her he did not just apear in the manger he passed thru the birth canal. Mary has a normal deliver of a child. Mary was a woman. Jesus sukeled at her breast. I bet she even corrected him at times, she was a mother, Jesus was a baby just like all babies.
Mary was a woman and a mother and a wife. Joseph and Mary had children the bible is more then clear on this. it is actually overly clear on it. There is not even a question on this one. You folks need to case down some imaginations. This obsession with a virgin mary and not Christ needs to end.
And that is called a strong hold, When you believe something that is actually proved beyond a shadow of a dought. That is a demonic strong hold, a deception. That is why God gives us the writen word so we can seperate the deceptions from the truth.
Just for your general information Mary can’t be a virgin after Jesus is born because the hyman is broke from the act of giving birth.
Here is a scripture that declare Mary had children.
“Let not them that wait on thee, O Lord GOD of hosts, be ashamed for my sake: let not those that seek thee be confounded for my sake, O God of Israel. Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face. I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother’s children. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.” -Psalm 69: 6-9
So much for imagainations. So the psalm have the answer mary had sex. And you can not mis-read that one.
 
It seems Joseph was a lot older than Mary, it may be the case he was a widower, St James the greater is believed to be one of Joseph’s sons. He is also referred to as ‘the brother of the Lord’., Presumably ‘the greater’ because there was also ‘St James the less’ who was not.
St. James the Greater was the brother of St. John. Their father was Zebedee. newadvent.org/cathen/08279b.htm
 
Joseph Smith,

Your biblical analysis, exegesis and theology is about as accurate and well thought out as the spelling in your last post. The Scriptures are not clear that Mary had other children, as many posters have illustrated. I notice that you never respond to the citations presented.

How can people [named as being the siblings of Jesus] be identified with other parents in additional biblical passages be also children of Mary? Are these passages soe “catholic” addition to holy scripture? No, the are in protestant bibles as well. Joseph Smith can just ‘pretend’ they don’t exist or say they are referring to some other James or John…

The holy scriptures that comprise the New Testament were not compiled as we know it in 300 AD. The focus of scripture is Jesus and the core beliefs of the Church. The scriptures are written by a faith community for a community of believers. They do not comprise all of the deposit of faith as this deposit of faith comes after the creation of the Church.
 
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